General Sykes wants to play for the republic

[ThehatchetMan]

I think the FIFA rules were made in good faith. The problem is looking at this as poaching from a "a smaller country".

I imaging the rules were so that if a player was representing a "larger nation" at youth level, they wouldn't be excluded from representing someone else. Did anyone complain when Victor Moses or Shola Ameobi represented England up to U-21s but decided to represent Nigeria?

Moses and Ameobi have connections to Nigeria through their families.

Mark Sykes is born in Northern Ireland to Northern Irish parents.

For arguments sake Robbie Keane wouldn't have the possibility to join NI even if he wanted to as he has no connection to the country. Why does the same rule not apply for players in NI? The rule is clearly bias and benefits one nation much more than the other. The ROI literally can pick from the whole country of Ireland and were restricted to just 5 counties.

Could you imagine if there was a rule where France can pick any English born player to play for them but England aren't allowed to pick the French born players.

 

[ttg17]

Aren't Northern Ireland the superior international team at the moment anyway, or is that just Michael O'Neill's stellar work the last few years giving me an unduly positive impression? Thinking back to the Euro qualifiers, didn't they come damn close to getting out of a group that featured Germany and the Netherlands? The Republic always just seem to be playing (and losing) against Denmark

 

[Dolly]

From a purely football perspective, I believe it's pretty simple. (I realise it's far form that from a political one though). It football terms, they each have an FA and Fifa recognises them as 2 different countries. Since he as born in NI and have represented them at U21 level, I don't think he should be allowed to change.
This would certainly add unnecessary problems from arising. I had a friend some years ago who played for England U18s, it was the last age group you could play for before you had to be attached to a professional club. I thin the rules should say that you make your choice and that's it from that point.

It complicated by the fact that in some quarters, he has actually choosing to play for the country of his birth. Someone can probably put me right, but I'm sure this doesn't happen anywhere else?
It's not a political issue, but as an aside, I believe that if you are born in the Channel Islands you can choose to represent any UK nation if thought it's not actually part of the UK.

 

[Northernyellow]

From a purely football perspective, I believe it's pretty simple. (I realise it's far form that from a political one though). It football terms, they each have an FA and Fifa recognises them as 2 different countries. Since he as born in NI and have represented them at U21 level, I don't think he should be allowed to change.
This would certainly add unnecessary problems from arising. I had a friend some years ago who played for England U18s, it was the last age group you could play for before you had to be attached to a professional club. I thin the rules should say that you make your choice and that's it from that point.

It complicated by the fact that in some quarters, he has actually choosing to play for the country of his birth. Someone can probably put me right, but I'm sure this doesn't happen anywhere else?
It's not a political issue, but as an aside, I believe that if you are born in the Channel Islands you can choose to represent any UK nation if thought it's not actually part of the UK.

Correct- that's why Chris Tardif played for NI at u. 21 level, until they also realised he wasn't very good. Wikipedia says that loophole has now been changed. I clicked on the FIFA rules, but found myself nodding off after about twenty seconds.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Am I the only one that is beginning to worry that a certain person is getting a little ahead of himself and believing his own hype????

No you aren’t the only one.There has been interviews in the past where I thought he was in danger of getting too ahead of himself and unfortunately he hasn’t put himself in a good light here.

 

[beyondthefourth]

No you aren’t the only one.There has been interviews in the past where I thought he was in danger of getting too ahead of himself and unfortunately he hasn’t put himself in a good light here.

I do remember a couple of interviews in his first half season where he was very much talking about his own performance over that of the team.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

I do remember a couple of interviews in his first half season where he was very much talking about his own performance over that of the team.

He was also very vocal about not starting games even though the team was winning.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

Moses and Ameobi have connections to Nigeria through their families.

Mark Sykes is born in Northern Ireland to Northern Irish parents.

For arguments sake Robbie Keane wouldn't have the possibility to join NI even if he wanted to as he has no connection to the country. Why does the same rule not apply for players in NI? The rule is clearly bias and benefits one nation much more than the other. The ROI literally can pick from the whole country of Ireland and were restricted to just 5 counties.

Could you imagine if there was a rule where France can pick any English born player to play for them but England aren't allowed to pick the French born players.

NI-born players are in a unique postion due to the dual passport eligibility brought in by the Good Friday agreement.

 

[Wallop]

I do remember a couple of interviews in his first half season where he was very much talking about his own performance over that of the team.

Don't mind a confident footballer as long as it doesn't turn into arrogance.

 

[Witneyoldfella]

All I really care about is how he plays for us and will judge him accordingly. Of course his decision will p**s off some and please others but ultimately its wearing the Yellow shirt that counts for me.

 

[ljs]

I do remember a couple of interviews in his first half season where he was very much talking about his own performance over that of the team.

There was also an interview where he plainly said being at Oxford was just a stepping stone to a 'better' team.
Fine being confident, but don't put down your current team.

Anyway, I think people are getting ahead of themselves with his ability and influence on the pitch. To me he still isn't a definite starter.

 

[Big Ron]

He was also very vocal about not starting games even though the team was winning.

He might well have made some comments to that effect but I have a tendency to judge what I see on the pitch - Sykes contributed more and more as the season progressed and was one of those who definitely didn't let us down in the play-offs. In fact, he might well have been our best player and certainly contributed his best to the team effort. The international choice is his - he alone has to live with the consequences and he seems to have given it due consideration.

 

[Big Ron]

There was also an interview where he plainly said being at Oxford was just a stepping stone to a 'better' team.
Fine being confident, but don't put down your current team.

Anyway, I think people are getting ahead of themselves with his ability and influence on the pitch. To me he still isn't a definite starter.

At least he turned up for the play-offs when some of our more established players didn't.

 

[Scotchegg]

I think we've found this seasons scapegoat!!!

A young lad has made a decision about potential international honours that is entirely within the rules laid down by FIFA and the national associations. He informs the manager before it gets anywhere near the press. He then issues a statement that is respectful to NI and the opportunities they have given him, but expresses a desire to play for ROI.

And before that he's spoken about wanting to succeed, to get himself into the starting line up, to make a contribution in as many games as possible. Everything we won't want from a young player.

Now all of a sudden, he's full of himself, arrogant and lacking in integrity!

I hope to God that there is a partially visible tattoo or mystery french player on show at the Palace game to help everyone get back to what really bloody matters!!!

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

I think we've found this seasons scapegoat!!!

A young lad has made a decision about potential international honours that is entirely within the rules laid down by FIFA and the national associations. He informs the manager before it gets anywhere near the press. He then issues a statement that is respectful to NI and the opportunities they have given him, but expresses a desire to play for ROI.

And before that he's spoken about wanting to succeed, to get himself into the starting line up, to make a contribution in as many games as possible. Everything we won't want from a young player.

Now all of a sudden, he's full of himself, arrogant and lacking in integrity!

I hope to God that there is a partially visible tattoo or mystery french player on show at the Palace game to help everyone get back to what really bloody matters!!!

Oh for goodness sake people are rightfully commenting on an action he’s taken that is extremely controversial. It doesn’t mean he’ll be blamed for defeats. He’ll be judged on merit like everyone else.

Last season you accused people of making Mackie a scapegoat...it’s a label you use to undermine valid criticism. The guy was holding the team back and people made that judgment (just as you have subsequently but a little late accepted). Nobody wants an oxford player to do badly but will always identify where the team can get stronger just as they’ll identify who they think is helping us the most: ability is not an egalitarian concept.

But just as in any course of life, people will also be judged by their actions and in this case people will make judgments as to the brand of Mark Sykes

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

Well, you can think what you like, but there may be, and probably are, issues which are none of our business as to why Mark has made this decision. It's a matter for him and not for us on this forum to criticise him. All we should care about is the fact that he's becoming an important part of our team and will be crucial to our performances this season. Further speculation is pointless and unfair. I would suggest that the mods bring this topic to a close.

Strange suggestion. Why can’t we talk about this and why would you want to shut down the conversation ?

Personally I care about many things not just the success of my favorite football team, and my moral barometer is able to broaden beyond this horizons.

Mark has explained his reasons in the press. They’re very unconvincing and if the allegations that he was tapped up by the ROI are true, they should hang their heads too.

The fact that other players have done this in the past, or a loophole in the system allows it, in my opinion doesn’t make it more palatable.

 

[Scotchegg]

Oh for goodness sake people are rightfully commenting on an action he’s taken that is extremely controversial. It doesn’t mean he’ll be blamed for defeats. He’ll be judged on merit like everyone else.

Last season you accused people of making Mackie a scapegoat...it’s a label you use to undermine valid criticism. The guy was holding the team back and people made that judgment (just as you have subsequently but a little late accepted). Nobody wants an oxford player to do badly but will always identify where the team can get stronger just as they’ll identify who they think is helping us the most: ability is not an egalitarian concept.

But just as in any course of life, people will also be judged by their actions and in this case people will make judgments as to the brand of Mark Sykes

"Extremely controversial"???

How many players have represented one nations at youth level before playing for other nation? Hundreds! Not just in football, our cricket team has always included players from other nations. As with athletics. And boxing. In fact, you'd do pretty well to look to a sport where our national team hasn't benefited from importing talent.

How many of these have led to people questioning the integrity of those involved?

I may be wrong, but do you live/work in America? Does anyone question you (or others) for turning their back on the education system that invested in you? No, of course not. Sykes has done absolutely nothing wrong and the hysteria is embarrassing.

 

[ljs]

Im not bothered whether he plays for NI or ROI. Just commenting on his current ability.

Also, as has been said, coming out with the usual scapegoat quote is pretty boring, its just commenting on a players ability, as others have with Eastwood, and the boring scapegoat phrase was then also used.

 

[Isle of Wight Yellow]

If you criticise any players performances, someone on here will come out with the line ‘oh, here we go, X is the new scapegoat I suppose’, as sure as night follows day.

If you say anything at all negative about the club in any way, Scotchegg will comment, disagreeing with you. It’s just the facts of life!

 

[ThehatchetMan]

"Extremely controversial"???

How many players have represented one nations at youth level before playing for other nation? Hundreds! Not just in football, our cricket team has always included players from other nations. As with athletics. And boxing. In fact, you'd do pretty well to look to a sport where our national team hasn't benefited from importing talent.

How many of these have led to people questioning the integrity of those involved?

I may be wrong, but do you live/work in America? Does anyone question you (or others) for turning their back on the education system that invested in you? No, of course not. Sykes has done absolutely nothing wrong and the hysteria is embarrassing.

You can't make these comparisons with other sports or countries because what has happened here hasn't happened elsewhere to my knowledge.

Mark Sykes has no relatives or blood line connecting him to Republic of Ireland. I'm sure if sancho and Harry kane could just up root and start representing Germany that English fans would be just as enraged.

Your lack of compassion and being able to look at this from a different perspective is your issue here. I can fully understand why an Oxford fan with no ties to Northern Ireland may not be frustrated by this. However to claim the outrage is embarrassing is just pure ignorance and shows a really lack of understanding.

 

[ljs]

Mark Sykes has no relatives or blood line connecting him to Republic of Ireland. I'm sure if sancho and Harry kane could just up root and start representing Germany that English fans would be just as enraged.

So, why do you think he has said it was always his dream to play for ROI if he has no connection?

 

[carefreeoufc]

He can represent North Korea for all I care so long as he signs an extension, scores plenty and sets up plenty before being sold for a few million next summer.

 

[MG]

Happens all the time mate. ROI are notorious for it. If you look back at some of their squads in major tournaments you will find that alot of the time as little as 60% of their squad are born in the Republic of Ireland.

James McClean, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson, Eunan O'kane, Darren Gibson to name a few in recent years...




The DUP could raise tax to 99% of your income and the same people would still vote for them. Unionists here certainly have not accepted a United Ireland or any sort of possibility of it.

Unfortunately there are still large chunks of Northern Irish people who vote tribally, voting one party to keep the other out. The most loyal DUP voters tend to be working class unionists which is quite ironic giving their right wing policies. Unfortunately these people don't educate themselves on the policies and simply vote to keep other parties out. As a protestant myself, I actually align myself more with SF policies however both parties are toxic and I don't endorse either.

Sykes decision if anything is more contentious now, the Northern Ireland football fans are sick of this behaviour.


Appreciate your comments although I trust you noticed I referred to 'moderate unionists,' which, as you know pretty much excludes the DUP. Both SF and the DUP took hits at the last election as the SDLP/Alliance made gains (DUP losing North Down to the Alliance was especially striking). But I have a question for you - do DUP supporters engage with the all-Ireland Rugby Union team and why does the divergence between Rugby Union and football?





Not really, historically we've had alot of great Catholic players who have been loved by the Northern Irish fans and treated very well. Even Michael O'Neil who is adored by the fans as a player and manager is catholic.

If anything it's actually became much more common in the last 10 years to change allegiance.



I'm sorry to say this but I really hope he does fail now. It really frustrates me stuff like this.

It's frustrating because he was happy to represent Northern Ireland through all the youth teams right up to the senior squad. He was also happy to take a wage playing in the irish league and now the English system. And I'm sure Gavin Whyte probably played a role in helping him join Oxford United and that other internationals formerly from the Irish league such as Stuart Dallas probably offered him alot of help and advice.

I just think it's ridiculous that in this day and age players can represent one country for so long and then just switch to the ROI so easily. We have a quarter of the population of the ROI as it is and if you take all those players who swapped to ROI from NI, we'd actually probably have a much stronger squad than them too.

I personally think Fifa need to change the rules with this a bit. I understand as a teenager you're not in the position to make an informed decesion but their should be an age limit in place which they have to switch by or something. It's unfair on NI to bring these players through the youth system and then for them to leave like that with no compensation. Not only are we losing good players but other potential youth prospects are also losing opportunities to represent their country too and push on.

If Mr Sykes really didn't want to represent NI then I'm sure he would of known a long time ago. Nothing has changed overnight to make him change his mind.

 

[MG]

Appreciate your comments although I trust you noticed I referred to 'moderate unionists,' which, as you know pretty much excludes the DUP. Both SF and the DUP took hits at the last election as the SDLP/Alliance made gains (DUP losing North Down to the Alliance was especially striking). But I have a question for you - do DUP supporters engage with the all-Ireland Rugby Union team and why does the divergence between Rugby Union and football?

 

[Followtheox1]

He can represent North Korea for all I care so long as he signs an extension, scores plenty and sets up plenty before being sold for a few million next summer.

Pretty much this. One or two on here are tied up in the politics in NI either through personal experience or just because they choose to be. For most on here, I suspect, we are able to look at the situation more impartially and actually couldn't care less who he chose to play for as long as he is happy with the choice and importantly, from an Oxford fan perspective, we care about his performances for us.

 

[Scotchegg]

You can't make these comparisons with other sports or countries because what has happened here hasn't happened elsewhere to my knowledge.

Mark Sykes has no relatives or blood line connecting him to Republic of Ireland. I'm sure if sancho and Harry kane could just up root and start representing Germany that English fans would be just as enraged.

Your lack of compassion and being able to look at this from a different perspective is your issue here. I can fully understand why an Oxford fan with no ties to Northern Ireland may not be frustrated by this. However to claim the outrage is embarrassing is just pure ignorance and shows a really lack of understanding.

"Lack of compassion"??? I actually have compassion for a young man making a decision on his sporting future for his and his families own reasons.

You talk about the outrage and how I am ignorant of this. But I would like to think that the peace process (and any number of other movements in the last 10 years) has shown us that it is irresponsible to make wider political issues out of the totally unrelated actions of an individual.

I can understand the frustration of losing a player to a rival, and that the Irish situation makes that worse, but it is still only a game of football. Mark Sykes is a young player with potential, but is maybe not even guaranteed a starting position in a league one side. So I'm not sure that his international future, or otherwise, warrants the attention some are giving it.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

If you criticise any players performances, someone on here will come out with the line ‘oh, here we go, X is the new scapegoat I suppose’, as sure as night follows day.

This is a byproduct of the wider social and political landscape of recent years. Try to create a situation based on extremes, pick your side, then beat the other side. That’s basically what debate and conversation has become even on a football forum - just make it a bit nasty and spiteful. It’s turned something as simple as having an opinion into something that simply must be defeated and smashed into the ground, and you need to be as divisive as possible in the way that you disagree so that you can get people to join your ‘team’. If you come across anybody who actually has valid points and can put them across coherently, or heaven forbid actually has some kind of firsthand experience or real knowledge on a subject, you need to pile on as quickly as possible and stigmatise them. Get a label on them and then every time they say anything, shove that label down their throats and shout as loudly as you can to drown them out. You know you’re on to something when that starts happening to you. Players only kick other players because they can’t stop them any other way. It shows a lack of ability. Quite sad.

As for Mark Sykes, seeing as this thread is about him, I think we will have a much better idea in a year’s time of what went down here. In the meantime I think he would do well to keep his head down and his mouth shut after his brief statement, and simply focus on his game. I do personally think he’s behaved a little ‘dishonourably’ in all this, given he never alluded to ROI being his preference at any time before now and would have quite happily come off the bench on the occasions he was sat on it for NI, but that’s his decision. People are allowed their opinions and that’s mine - the way it happened is a bit smelly. But it won’t keep me awake at night and if he knuckles down and plays well for Oxford United, I’m not too fussed. That’s my primary concern.

Will be watching that contract situation closely on the back of this public kerfuffle, mind.

 

[ThehatchetMan]

Appreciate your comments although I trust you noticed I referred to 'moderate unionists,' which, as you know pretty much excludes the DUP. Both SF and the DUP took hits at the last election as the SDLP/Alliance made gains (DUP losing North Down to the Alliance was especially striking). But I have a question for you - do DUP supporters engage with the all-Ireland Rugby Union team and why does the divergence between Rugby Union and football?

I think that's a difficult question to answer. Rugby historically is a more upper class game so alot of DUP supporters wouldn't take an interest in it. However there obviously are still working class people who follow and enjoy rugby.

For protestants like myself, I happily support the Ireland rugby and cricket team without question. Id say most portestants don't have an issue with it however dup supporting protestants wouldn't be as tolerant as your average protestant. However even still I imagine a larger majority of DUP supporting rugby fans would support Ireland than wouldn't.

The difference between rugby and football is that after the separation of Ireland there was no desire by the RFU to separate the teams. Whereas all the football teams from the Republic of Ireland refused to travel into Northern Ireland after the separation which resulted in the split.

Having now supported Northern Ireland for years it would be difficult to support and all Ireland team. Don't get me wrong it would be nice to see and I would 100% support them if it was the only choice. It would just be more difficult for us because we'd likely be the team doing the merging if that makes sense. The bulk of the squad would be from the south, the matches would be in Dublin, the southern Irish would make up most of the fans and lead the chants. It would be very difficult to lose everything which makes the NI team unique. It would be like if Wales and England national teams were to merge. It would be less attractive a proposition for a Welsh fan than what it would be for an England fan.

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

"Extremely controversial"???

How many players have represented one nations at youth level before playing for other nation? Hundreds! Not just in football, our cricket team has always included players from other nations. As with athletics. And boxing. In fact, you'd do pretty well to look to a sport where our national team hasn't benefited from importing talent.

How many of these have led to people questioning the integrity of those involved?

I may be wrong, but do you live/work in America? Does anyone question you (or others) for turning their back on the education system that invested in you? No, of course not. Sykes has done absolutely nothing wrong and the hysteria is embarrassing.

Precedent doesn’t make something more reasonable. You wouldn’t suggest cheating in a relationship is legitimated just because people have done it before.

He was called up to the Northern Ireland Senior squad and accepted that call up multiple times. He’s not made the first team During those call ups and has now changed his mind about his allegiance and country of identity.

As for your country analogy about migration it’s clumsy for multiple reasons not least because I continue to pay Uk taxes, continue to retain British citizenship, and there’s no set of rules that commit you to representing one country in the work place as the core concept of the “competition”.

Or are you saying that Raheem Sterling should transfer to Jamaica if he doesn’t get into the starting line up in the next few months?

It doesn’t matter to you but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t considered extremely controversial in many areas. (And no I don’t have a political axe to grind in Northern Ireland but I did study it and write a dissertation on it) . You appear to have your yellow and blue glasses on and it’s a rather patronizing and belittling view to the fans of Northern Ireland.

 

[Londox]

True though isn’t it?

You enjoy your imaginary moral highground mate doesn't bother me. I'll enjoy living in an independent United Kingdom.