Stewart Donald anyone.....

Great viewing and really well produced.

Just shows how important selecting the right manager is. A poor choice only magnifies other issues (poor recruitment etc), whist a good choice can help minimise / reduce the impact of poor practices in the club etc.
 
I haven't seen the while serious, but the bits I have seen show most of the key figures as naive and amateurish. We had people moaning about the money we got for Baptiste, but €1.5m for Maja? SD knew that he'd been absolutely done over, which is why he compounded the problem by going all in on Grigg. Wigan knew that he was desperate and just sat back and waited for the bid to keep rising.

Of course, a camera crew following Tiger and co. round could have shown things just as farcical and I'm sure that many aspects of the football industry are equally insane. But no one comes out of this well, and I think the only way out now for SD is to do a deal with the Americans and disappear. He is massively out of his depth and surrounded by buffoons!
I still can't quite believe someone who earned a very good living in PR and Marketing thought it was a bright idea to allow a documentary crew warts and all access to their business as they have just taken it over.

It made good watching though.

And I'd like to challenge Chartle on thing he said re: a team he supports conceding 5 goals at home. We did it very recently when he was still supporting us, and in the dim and distant past too...
 
Great viewing and really well produced.

Just shows how important selecting the right manager is. A poor choice only magnifies other issues (poor recruitment etc), whist a good choice can help minimise / reduce the impact of poor practices in the club etc.
Was Ross such a bad choice ( I havent seen the programme)?
Selling Maja when they sold him was one of the key decisions in their season ( and that was not Ross's choice?)
They were very very close to going up and has they kept Maja I reckon they would have gone up automatically
 
I still can't quite believe someone who earned a very good living in PR and Marketing thought it was a bright idea to allow a documentary crew warts and all access to their business as they have just taken it over.

It made good watching though.

And I'd like to challenge Chartle on thing he said re: a team he supports conceding 5 goals at home. We did it very recently when he was still supporting us, and in the dim and distant past too...

Hadn’t the first season of the Netflix documentary already run prior to SD and CM joining? They may have been contractually obliged to continue (and not financially viable to break such a contract).
 
Was Ross such a bad choice ( I havent seen the programme)?
Selling Maja when they sold him was one of the key decisions in their season ( and that was not Ross's choice?)
They were very very close to going up and has they kept Maja I reckon they would have gone up automatically
I don't think he was a terrible choice. But he did seem overly negative. Drawing the number of games they did with the quality they had was poor. They didn't seem to ever go to kill games off.
 
Hadn’t the first season of the Netflix documentary already run prior to SD and CM joining? They may have been contractually obliged to continue (and not financially viable to break such a contract).
Don't think it had aired when they took over. In fact they were in the last episode of Season 1 I believe.
 
For me, it was e SD who every time he was interviewed took my back to the Office (David Brent double)! If he wasn't once one of our own, and someone who helped the club out, would we not be ridiculing him too? He may be a nice bloke - but that made uncomfortable watching! And as has been noted before, his dismissive comment about OUFC, coupled with encouraging his kids to support another team - embarrassing (no true fan would ever dream of such)! Never ever would I want him leading our club after this (Sunderland he is all yours)!

Charlie, needs to remember that 'it's not what you say, it's how you say it' - content was generally sensible and good (the fan attendance taken from us), but based on the edited delivery, there is a man with absolutely zero emotional intelligence!
 
Episode 4 is extraordinary.

Owners totally legged over.

Reasonable businessmen making crazy financial decisions because of the madness of professional football.

As for the Maja situation well the way that was handled finished their promotion campaign off . Naive.

What a well made programme

Maja definitely changed their dynamic. On the Will Grigg transfer, not sure the crazy decisions were football - financial desperation in my opinion. He and Sunderland needed promotion - in SD's case to not haemorrhage more cash on the business gamble and make a profit selling on. He was like a gambling addict with the Grigg transfer - placing the next bet all in the hope that it would turn around previous (in his case what was quickly appearing potential) losses. Never a nice place to be for anyone - and now with Covid I genuinely feel for SD's situation - hope he comes out not too burnt (he may still make a profit - good luck to him if he does)!
 
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Don't think it had aired when they took over. In fact they were in the last episode of Season 1 I believe.

I vividly remember it coming out just before Christmas in 2018, and even in one of the episodes of Season 2 (Episode 3 I think), you can see some advertising hoardings advertising the first series during the Boxing Day fixture.
 
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According Methven, they agreed to do the series:
‘We agreed to the second series because we felt it would be good for the club. We probably didn’t think too much about the implications for ourselves.

 
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So I was pleasantly surprised to find Sunderland til I die on Netflix in the US today. And then even more pleasantly surprised to discover how great it is. Just finished bingeing the first four episodes.

And while it's possible that things change in the last couple of episodes.....so far I think my take is a little different from others on here.

I actually think Charlie comes across pretty well. I mean he comes across as a bit of a t**t, obviously (after the best part of two decades sparring with him on here, and Yellowsforums' predecessors, I would never have expected anything else) - buuuuut he was going in to take over a failing business, with a staff who were clearly unmotivated and disinterested. He immediately identified that the whole culture of the club needed to change, and decided some brutal honesty, some effing and blinding and banging of heads was the quickest way to see who at the club had potential to make that change and who was a lost cause. Clearly didn't make him popular, and clearly didn't make him look good on TV.....but I think the logic was sound, and although it may not have worked at Sunderland, I've seen entrepreneurs have success like that elsewhere.

But Stewart came across as a bit of a naive fool. On transfer deadline day, his manager told him that Grigg wasn't worth more than 1.25m and not to pay more than that; his director of football operations told him that Grigg wasn't worth more than 1.25m and not to pay more than that (and by the way, Richard Hill came across as the one who understood the game better than anyone else at the club).....but he went ahead and made the decision, when clearly exhausted and a bit frantic, to shell out 3m for him. It was an emotional decision born out of a desperation not to disappoint the fans, and not to fail in their promotion push.
But chairmen should never, ever be overruling their football people on football decisions. Because they're just fans and know no more about the game than the rest of us on here.

And so he completely wasted three million pounds to achieve absolutely nothing - money that they could have really used last summer. And this is a matter of weeks after he wouldn't push the boat out to keep Maja who was the only thing keeping them up near the top of the table at that point (and yeah, maybe that was always a lost cause - but I bet if they'd sent much of that 3 million his way, it would've turned the guy's head!). It was dumb, dumb, dumb.

Final thought - I always disliked Luke O'Nien (probably because he was a bit cocky, played for Wycombe and has had a couple of good games against us). I quite like him now. I know the filmmakers clearly set him up to be the sympathetic player, but he still came across as a smart kid and a decent bloke......
 
So I was pleasantly surprised to find Sunderland til I die on Netflix in the US today. And then even more pleasantly surprised to discover how great it is. Just finished bingeing the first four episodes.

And while it's possible that things change in the last couple of episodes.....so far I think my take is a little different from others on here.

I actually think Charlie comes across pretty well. I mean he comes across as a bit of a t**t, obviously (after the best part of two decades sparring with him on here, and Yellowsforums' predecessors, I would never have expected anything else) - buuuuut he was going in to take over a failing business, with a staff who were clearly unmotivated and disinterested. He immediately identified that the whole culture of the club needed to change, and decided some brutal honesty, some effing and blinding and banging of heads was the quickest way to see who at the club had potential to make that change and who was a lost cause. Clearly didn't make him popular, and clearly didn't make him look good on TV.....but I think the logic was sound, and although it may not have worked at Sunderland, I've seen entrepreneurs have success like that elsewhere.

But Stewart came across as a bit of a naive fool. On transfer deadline day, his manager told him that Grigg wasn't worth more than 1.25m and not to pay more than that; his director of football operations told him that Grigg wasn't worth more than 1.25m and not to pay more than that (and by the way, Richard Hill came across as the one who understood the game better than anyone else at the club).....but he went ahead and made the decision, when clearly exhausted and a bit frantic, to shell out 3m for him. It was an emotional decision born out of a desperation not to disappoint the fans, and not to fail in their promotion push.
But chairmen should never, ever be overruling their football people on football decisions. Because they're just fans and know no more about the game than the rest of us on here.

And so he completely wasted three million pounds to achieve absolutely nothing - money that they could have really used last summer. And this is a matter of weeks after he wouldn't push the boat out to keep Maja who was the only thing keeping them up near the top of the table at that point (and yeah, maybe that was always a lost cause - but I bet if they'd sent much of that 3 million his way, it would've turned the guy's head!). It was dumb, dumb, dumb.

Final thought - I always disliked Luke O'Nien (probably because he was a bit cocky, played for Wycombe and has had a couple of good games against us). I quite like him now. I know the filmmakers clearly set him up to be the sympathetic player, but he still came across as a smart kid and a decent bloke......

As much as it's fun to laugh at Charlie, and the way he came across on the show, I think Tony has summed it up perfectly here for me.

As somebody who knows both Charlie and Stewart personally, I thought they were both portrayed fairly honestly, albeit in an exaggerated way. I'm sure Stewart would play the transfer deadline day cards differently if he had to do it again, whether that's with or without the benefit of hindsight, and likewise the Maja situation. But it goes to show the way that football affects the decision making of normally rational individuals. I thought Stewart summed it up perfectly in one of the early episodes, when he said that he was probably too emotional to be a football club chairman (something he's said to me personally long ago) and lo and behold, that's how it played out. My advice to him would be (in respect of transfer deadline day in particular) that you don't have a dog (Jack Ross/Richard Hill/Neil Fox) and bark yourself!

Still good viewing though.
 
Agree with the last two posts. I still need to finish the last episode but I was expecting an absolute car crash. If you put a camera on anyone for a year with an editorial team as good as Netflix then I’m sure we’d all make plenty of blunders.

I thought the only point that either character showed their true “vulnerability” / “weakness” was:

Stewart with the last minute purchasebut having said that if they got promoted the editorial is all different and he’s a genius. He has clearly, as he stated , built his businesses using his gut a little bit and this was a roll of the dice that failed.

Charlie when trying to hit the crowd number record. He spoke poorly to that marketing lady and I’m sure he’d retract it if he could. It was emotional, in the moment, but very wrong.

I think both characters actually presented a very honest image of themselves. I’m not sure I’d criticize Stewart for being honest, open and earnestly enjoying his pursuit and then label that naive. I’m not an entrepreneur but he clearly is and he’s been far more successful than many of us have been or would be. I’d love the chance to buy a big train set! As for Charlie I think a lot of Sunderland fans might watch that series and realize how badly the club was in trouble and the duo were genuinely trying to turn the tide. Football is a passionate business though and sometimes the more passionate the fan base the more illogical they are.

As for the employees, againI’m conscious of editorializing but boy were they apathetic, slow of thought and uninspiring. I imagine there was plenty of efforts to cajole them in other ways before some of the stronger language was employed. There was very little that shocked me, very little that felt David Brent like unless you were intent on trying to see it, and very little I haven’t seen elsewhere in corporate meetings.

I think a small minority on here have brought their agendas to this one with their analysis of the show.
 
Agree with the last two posts. I still need to finish the last episode but I was expecting an absolute car crash. If you put a camera on anyone for a year with an editorial team as good as Netflix then I’m sure we’d all make plenty of blunders.

I thought the only point that either character showed their true “vulnerability” / “weakness” was:

Stewart with the last minute purchasebut having said that if they got promoted the editorial is all different and he’s a genius. He has clearly, as he stated , built his businesses using his gut a little bit and this was a roll of the dice that failed.

Charlie when trying to hit the crowd number record. He spoke poorly to that marketing lady and I’m sure he’d retract it if he could. It was emotional, in the moment, but very wrong.

I think both characters actually presented a very honest image of themselves. I’m not sure I’d criticize Stewart for being honest, open and earnestly enjoying his pursuit and then label that naive. I’m not an entrepreneur but he clearly is and he’s been far more successful than many of us have been or would be. I’d love the chance to buy a big train set! As for Charlie I think a lot of Sunderland fans might watch that series and realize how badly the club was in trouble and the duo were genuinely trying to turn the tide. Football is a passionate business though and sometimes the more passionate the fan base the more illogical they are.

As for the employees, againI’m conscious of editorializing but boy were they apathetic, slow of thought and uninspiring. I imagine there was plenty of efforts to cajole them in other ways before some of the stronger language was employed. There was very little that shocked me, very little that felt David Brent like unless you were intent on trying to see it, and very little I haven’t seen elsewhere in corporate meetings.

I think a small minority on here have brought their agendas to this one with their analysis of the show.
Regarding Charlie, people have responded exactly how the producers wanted them to. They set up the meetings in the first episode to look like The Office - everything short of the music - and that impression stuck. I think potentially the best of CM was at the very end. Imagine the scale of that kick in the balls with TV cameras on you. There was more grace there than you might expect, although I am sure there were some more interesting moments in private.
 
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