Matches Standard of Refereeing

Sarge said:
as @Essexyellows posted above, dish out a few straight reds thatll stop players getting in the refs face, well, nip it in the bud at least
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That's OK as long as they do it and stick by it. I remember last season, pushing and pulling in the box was going to be a foul (and so possibly a penalty) every time it happened. A couple of instances of it being punished happened at the start of the season, then it was quietly forgotten about. The same with the 'Respect' thing a few seasons before. Quickly dropped. If not officially then certainly by the refs as the games went on. These are in the main only yellow card offences, but even that is going to make players think twice - you're then just one mistimed tackle away from the early bath, and refs seem quite happy to dish out cards if a player 'over-celebrates' or (heaven forbid!) takes their shirt off!
 
I've said for years that I think the standard of refereeing (and linesmen) in the EFL and PL are completely at odds with the product itself and has to be the worst across Europe and beyond. Obviously I don't know what the referreeing is like in, for example, the Albanian league but I cannot believe it is as inept as over here.

I've heard people saying we have the best officials but that's a staggering opinion based on the continual drip feeding of wrong decisions and general incompetence displayed by these officals on a weekly basis. You get the odd good one who on the back of his PL profile will get big CL and international fixtures but that's firmly where it stops.

I think I recall three referees, maybe four, at The Kassam last season who you'd said refereed with common sense, a footballers perspective in terms of interpreting the rule book and a general fitness to keep up with play and be in the right place to make the correct calls. That makes around about twenty who were basically below standard and I think that's a fair ratio across the board in the English game - one good one in about every five or six.
 
The very strange decisions started immediately after we scored. They had a free kick about 10 yards out from the right hand corner of our penalty box (left as we looked). The free kick went in to box and headed over by Sunderland player, they started walking back assuming it was a goal kick, onlyfor ref to go and give a corner. At the time I thought, how odd, but hey ho. That set the scene for the rest of the game.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
I agree wholeheartedly. I still think they should have stuck by the 'respect' thing they started a couple of seasons ago, where only the captain was allowed to speak to the ref unless he called a player over. It's not the whole answer to the problem of poor refereeing, but making the players behave in this respect would be a good first step. As it was, things have now slid back to where they were before.
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If you look at the extended highlights, you can see Mous talk to the referee, then stop to shoo his teammates away so he can have the one-to-one.
 
Well yes, but that's one example of it being done. I am willing to bet that (in the same game, from both teams) there are examples of dissent, other players talking to the ref, etc etc that went unpunished.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
"Manager Jack Ross explains why conceding first is so damaging to the Black Cats, and admits he is frustrated officials do not help his side more"
Really? REALLY? Did he actually want the ref to kick it into the net for them? He's moaning about us wasting time, I wonder what he'd be saying if they'd had a perfectly good goal disallowed, a dodgy penalty given against them and numerous baseless free kicks awarded around their box?
Still, he'll be looking for a new job soon anyway ...
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Sunderland played the “ dark art” throughout.
When ever we had a throw-in, one of there players would collect the ball and not release it until all of there players were in position to defend it !
Not once did the ref’ remonstrate with them, but as soon as we did similar, he gave the “ hurry up “ signal.
Incompetent t w a t
 
The football authorities - EFL, EPL and FA - need to invest more in referees and improving standards. Officials need to be accountable and open, for far too long it's come across as a closed shop, and old boys club if you will, and not an open and accountable group looking to improve themselves and get better.

More care and attention needs to be given to which Referee groups are given which games, and Referees need to be supported in that. We've seen too many games where Refs are shoved up the system and incapable of coping with the pressure of L1.

That said, a more consistent week to week implementation of rules will be good first step in detoxifying the current environment. Fans, management and players turn up each week and it's rule bingo. No wonder people get so angry and frustrated.
 
I think the idea that there are no crooked referees in the game, here or elsewhere, is naive at best.
 
Jerome'SAle said:
I think the idea that there are no crooked referees in the game, here or elsewhere, is naive at best.
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if you Genuinely believe that then i am surprised you watch and invest in the sport but hey i am probably just naive:)
 
Gary Baldi said:
The football authorities - EFL, EPL and FA - need to invest more in referees and improving standards. Officials need to be accountable and open, for far too long it's come across as a closed shop, and old boys club if you will, and not an open and accountable group looking to improve themselves and get better.

More care and attention needs to be given to which Referee groups are given which games, and Referees need to be supported in that. We've seen too many games where Refs are shoved up the system and incapable of coping with the pressure of L1.

That said, a more consistent week to week implementation of rules will be good first step in detoxifying the current environment. Fans, management and players turn up each week and it's rule bingo. No wonder people get so angry and frustrated.
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good post @Gary Baldi ..... consistency of application of FA rules would help a lot...also I understand ( may well be wrong here though), that although linesmen became assistant referees some time ago, its the man in the middle who calls the shots as to what assisting he does or doesnt require in a match hes officiating - some referees (better ones) instruct their two assistants to 'give everything' wheras others instruct 'throw ins , off sides and goal/corner kicks' for instance ... perhaps if the FA ensured that assistant referees fully assisted the referee by giving all decisions it may be a step in the right direction?

There again referees would probably still 'overule' their assistants at times ?

changes are needed thats for certain
 
what are you investing in though? on any given day the officials will make a call based on the laws of the game and what they see. They will make errors but not intentional one's and it's the players, managers etc that need "training" to accept their decision.

i've given my views on tv involvement but tell me this, why do we need to hear that ref A has issued 8 red cards for example and is that not an inference that those cards may have been wrong?
 
Sarge said:
good post @Gary Baldi ..... consistency of application of FA rules would help a lot...also I understand ( may well be wrong here though), that although linesmen became assistant referees some time ago, its the man in the middle who calls the shots as to what assisting he does or doesnt require in a match hes officiating - some referees (better ones) instruct their two assistants to 'give everything' wheras others instruct 'throw ins , off sides and goal/corner kicks' for instance ... perhaps if the FA ensured that assistant referees fully assisted the referee by giving all decisions it may be a step in the right direction?

There again referees would probably still 'overule' their assistants at times ?

changes are needed thats for certain
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I'd happily settle for an individual ref remaining consistent with their decision making game to game and in game, even if imo it is a wrong interpretation. This seems to be the difference between good refs and poor ones for me.

You will always get differences between Refs because of interpretation required for many decisions and I can happily live with that.
 
Part of the "issue" is we have unconscious bias, we are human it happens.
We see "our" player make a tackle that in our mind is border line, the referee see`s it much less affected by any bias and that can be the difference between a foul & pen changing the game or not.
Yes some ref`s are abjectly awful, many are OK and most are just doing the job for the same reasons we go to the match... for the game.
The FL/FA should (must!) implement the "respect" part from kids all the way through.
Just the Captain approaching the referee to question any error (we are all human), not 6 players from each side screaming in his face and waving their arms around.
Works in Rugby, argue the toss or encroach and you lose position and players. They soon learn!
 
horseman said:
what are you investing in though? on any given day the officials will make a call based on the laws of the game and what they see. They will make errors but not intentional one's and it's the players, managers etc that need "training" to accept their decision.

i've given my views on tv involvement but tell me this, why do we need to hear that ref A has issued 8 red cards for example and is that not an inference that those cards may have been wrong?
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You'd invest in regular training/evaluation of performances, full time officials in the Football League, regular sports science based fitness programmes etc. Remarkably similar to players training really.

Invest in a proper training programme for grassroots refereeing upwards. Also, a proper support system/network for refs which covers refs at all levels.

Also introduce a proper pathway for refs which whilst promotes good refs, it does this at the right time. This would require investment in analysis of Refs at lower levels.
 
Essexyellows said:
Part of the "issue" is we have unconscious bias, we are human it happens.
We see "our" player make a tackle that in our mind is border line, the referee see`s it much less affected by any bias and that can be the difference between a foul & pen changing the game or not.
Yes some ref`s are abjectly awful, many are OK and most are just doing the job for the same reasons we go to the match... for the game.
The FL/FA should (must!) implement the "respect" part from kids all the way through.
Just the Captain approaching the referee to question any error (we are all human), not 6 players from each side screaming in his face and waving their arms around.
Works in Rugby, argue the toss or encroach and you lose position and players. They soon learn!
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we had that in football if you remember? any form of dissent led to a free kick 10 yards forward which for reasons best known to the powers that be was removed.
 
horseman said:
we had that in football if you remember? any form of dissent led to a free kick 10 yards forward which for reasons best known to the powers that be was removed.
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Id all but forgotten about that .... as its seems have the FA
 
Marked Ox said:
You'd invest in regular training/evaluation of performances, full time officials in the Football League, regular sports science based fitness programmes etc. Remarkably similar to players training really.

Invest in a proper training programme for grassroots refereeing upwards. Also, a proper support system/network for refs which covers refs at all levels.

Also introduce a proper pathway for refs which whilst promotes good refs, it does this at the right time. This would require investment in analysis of Refs at lower levels.
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They have this in the prem though and it still don't stop slating of officials...football is a simple game with Laws that apply to all. how many times have we heard " he could have let that go" etc because it's a champions league or World Cup final or because it's super bloody sunday
don't send off Stevie G in the first minute because it's a merseyside derby as that might spoil it for those sat at home when in reality it is all very simple Let the officials do their job and players managers etc accept their decision and get on with the game.
 
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