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National News Sir Keir Starmer

the most disadvantaged working people - those who have to use a bus to get around
That assertion is a bit of a leap isn't it? I'd love to see some stats for this...

...although on the face of it I agree with you in that it shouldn't be raised, but isn't it the case the scheme is due to run out at the end of the year so if they did nothing then people would face the possibility of a big price hike?
 
That assertion is a bit of a leap isn't it? I'd love to see some stats for this...

...although on the face of it I agree with you in that it shouldn't be raised, but isn't it the case the scheme is due to run out at the end of the year so if they did nothing then people would face the possibility of a big price hike?
It was based on my own life of observing people around me on buses, but since you asked...

NatCen did a report on it called "Transport and Inequality" back in 2019, reviewing evidence from the Department for Transport.

They observed:

There is a relationship between income and type of transport used. Those on lower
incomes use buses more than those on higher incomes, and those on higher incomes
use cars and trains more than those on lower incomes (Department for Transport
2017). This is a result of accessibility rather than choice: buses are cheaper to use than
trains, and cars are expensive to own and run.


This is obviously pre COVID data, but I also saw a report from 2021 from Dept of Transport when performing my research that the leading form of bus journey was for work purposes. I can't link the PDF here.

Yes, if they left the scheme to fall away people would face a hike. But this is Labour - why are they actively worsening a Tory scheme which supported the very poorest in society?
 
I don't really understand why they're increasing the cap on bus fares. Their whole thing is about protecting their idea of "working people" (don't ask them to define that!), and yet the most disadvantaged working people - those who have to use a bus to get around - have to pay more to get to work!?
The £2 cap was never affordable when brought on my the Tories as all it did was increase the deficit and a £3 cap will be slightly less unaffordable. What is becoming ever clearer if the Sunak cut and run with an early election because he knew exactly what state the finances were in.

Everyone should beat in mind that if Sunak wanted it it could Jeremy Hunt currently dropping hints of his forthcoming budget. There is a reason why he isn't.
 
The £2 cap was never affordable when brought on my the Tories as all it did was increase the deficit and a £3 cap will be slightly less unaffordable. What is becoming ever clearer if the Sunak cut and run with an early election because he knew exactly what state the finances were in.

Everyone should beat in mind that if Sunak wanted it it could Jeremy Hunt currently dropping hints of his forthcoming budget. There is a reason why he isn't.
Isn't this just the argument the Tories made for austerity??

"We should cut this because it is increasing the deficit" - no apparent thought for the fact that the thing being cut supports the very poorest people in society who have no access to cars or the money for trains...
 
Isn't this just the argument the Tories made for austerity??

"We should cut this because it is increasing the deficit" - no apparent thought for the fact that the thing being cut supports the very poorest people in society who have no access to cars or the money for trains...
Don't forget that keeping bus fares as low as possible would help with the environment.
If you could buy a ticket for £1 a day, and go on as many buses as you like with that ticket, car usage would be massively down. Same if we did that with trains for a nominal fee.
 
Isn't this just the argument the Tories made for austerity??

"We should cut this because it is increasing the deficit" - no apparent thought for the fact that the thing being cut supports the very poorest people in society who have no access to cars or the money for trains...
It's the difference between capital and revenue spend. You borrowed for capital spend and if it's thought through it should contribute towards a growing economy and improved efficiency/productivity. Cut that and the spiral it's only downwards. Invest in capital spend well and you can then increase revenue funding off the back of a growing economy. The problem with the Tories is they used austerity to simply cut everywhere, revenue and capital based simple on a low tax ideology (how ironic given they delivered the highest tax take in decades) with no consideration for the long term damage it was doing. As I said Hunt could be Chancellor right now and there's a reason isn't it. He knows it's the inevitable s**t hits the fan time following the complete hollowing out of services.
 
It's the difference between capital and revenue spend. You borrowed for capital spend and if it's thought through it should contribute towards a growing economy and improved efficiency/productivity. Cut that and the spiral it's only downwards. Invest in capital spend well and you can then increase revenue funding off the back of a growing economy. The problem with the Tories is they used austerity to simply cut everywhere, revenue and capital based simple on a low tax ideology (how ironic given they delivered the highest tax take in decades) with no consideration for the long term damage it was doing. As I said Hunt could be Chancellor right now and there's a reason isn't it. He knows it's the inevitable s**t hits the fan time following the complete hollowing out of services.

But hasn't KS just confirmed that taxes need to go up further to avoid austerity? And changed the borrowing goal posts so that we can borrow a whole lot more (i.e put us further into debt).

It too could be seen as a huge throw of the dice. Conservatives methodology was tightening belts and wrestling to avoid taxes going up even further as oppose to Labour methodology of being prepared to spend more and increase taxes further.

If this s**t goes horribly wrong and the economy does not grow as anticipated, in 5 years time we end up with an even bigger mountain of debt and an even higher tax regime.

Time will tell, I guess.

Edit : And why don't Labour just reverse the naughty 2% NI reduction introduced by the Conservatives? It wasn't necessary and costs £20 billion. Labour say they will have to make hard decisions but for me this is the easiest of the lot. Sorry people, but we have to put NI back to where it was 12 months ago because it should never have been reduced and you will all be back to a situation you where used to for years and years anyway. Of course it would grate with the public, but the argument is sound.
 
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But hasn't KS just confirmed that taxes need to go up further to avoid austerity? And changed the borrowing goal posts so that we can borrow a whole lot more (i.e put us further into debt).

It too could be seen as a huge throw of the dice. Conservatives methodology was tightening belts and wrestling to avoid taxes going up even further as oppose to Labour methodology of being prepared to spend more and increases taxes further.

If this s**t goes horribly wrong and the economy does not grow as anticipated, in 5 years time we end up with an even bigger mountain of debt and an even higher tax regime.

Time will tell, I guess.

Edit : And why don't Labour just reverse the naughty 2% NI reduction introduced by the Conservatives? It wasn't necessary and costs £20 billion. Labour say they will have to make hard decisions but for me this is the easiest of the lot. Sorry people, but we have to put NI back to where it was 12 months ago because it should never have been reduced and you will all be back to a situation you where used to for years and years anyway. Of course it would grate will the public, but the argument is sound.
For what I've picked up pre budget they are soft landing their intention to borrow more to fund capital spend (infrastructure investment) and ultimately the markets will decide if they like it or not. On the revenue side we've heard snippets of areas they are de-prioritising and will learn where they are prioritising spend on Wednesday. Judgements will then be made!
 
For what I've picked up pre budget they are soft landing their intention to borrow more to fund capital spend (infrastructure investment) and ultimately the markets will decide if they like it or not. On the revenue side we've heard snippets of areas they are de-prioritising and will learn where they are prioritising spend on Wednesday. Judgements will then be made!

Very true… the market reaction on Wednesday will be hugely important.
 
Very true… the market reaction on Wednesday will be hugely important.
Spot on. I wonder if punitive tax rises are a way to reassure markets about the deficit spending i.e. we arent afraid of making tough decisions if we have to so let us borrow more.

I read a good phrase in the papers - Reeves is "running the hot and cold taps together"
 
Nice to see they are throwing more money into the Black Hole (aka The NHS).

They need to get on the ground floor and see how it is spent (wasted).

I`ve lost count of the number of "next big things" our Trust has done, invariably at great expense and resulting in a project withering away and dying a death.

"Our Journey Together" was the highlight include cartoon posters of windy roads and buses.....
 
Nice to see they are throwing more money into the Black Hole (aka The NHS).

They need to get on the ground floor and see how it is spent (wasted).

I`ve lost count of the number of "next big things" our Trust has done, invariably at great expense and resulting in a project withering away and dying a death.

"Our Journey Together" was the highlight include cartoon posters of windy roads and buses.....
My mate used to fix blood testing machines in hospitals, he always said the amount of wasted money was incredible. One example he still quotes is radiators jammed on full bore and all the windows open. 🙄
 
Spot on. I wonder if punitive tax rises are a way to reassure markets about the deficit spending i.e. we arent afraid of making tough decisions if we have to so let us borrow more.

I read a good phrase in the papers - Reeves is "running the hot and cold taps together"

In all honesty, I really wouldn't want her job!!

Lets just hope the bath doesn't overflow :)
 
And did he give the Tories s**t over student fees? And then puts them up so effectively he and the Labour Party are happy with the fees the Tories put on students.
 
Our resident Labour representative in tatters tonight after another Keir masterclass.

2020 - we'll abolish tuition fees.
2023 - we're dropping our pledge to abolish tuition fees.
2024 - we're increasing tuition fees.

... I wonder what 2025 has in store!
 
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