General Robinson Player Development

Scotchegg

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In just the last few days we've had an experienced pro in George Thorne talk about the care and support he has had at the club, and why that helped him make the decision to play for us for free.

Ben Woodburn and those in the Liverpool youth set up have been very impressed with the way he has been supported whilst on loan and have said that a deal for him to remain next year is likely because of this.

Shandon Baptiste spoke on a number of occasions about how Robinson had supported him during his recovery from injury, and had allowed him to come back gradually and with the confidence to play his natural game.

Malachi Napa, Anthony Forde and others have also praised Robinson and the club for the support they have received whilst out injured, singling the manager out for visiting them in hospital immediately after the game.

Throughout the team we have players who have not only improved as players but have grown as men, and all have spoken highly of how the club and manager have been a huge part of this. Allowing Baptiste to captain the side against Man City first time round, then Rob Dickie for this seasons game. Mark Sykes has developed from being a fantastic, but inconsistent impact player, into a really rounded midfielder who could go on to play at the highest level. And we've also seen a number of young players coming through from the u18's to be given a taste of first team action in the EFL trophy games.

This is not just down to Robinson, but all of the coaches, fitness teams, sport science and physios behind the scene, as well as with the support and encouragement of the more senior players. There is a real togetherness throughout the club and that runs off on all age groups.

Yet, apparently, despite all of this, some will have us believe that Robinson is not selecting Dan Ageyi out of spite, or that there is some underlying issue which is the fault of the manager alone. And that this is all linked to a bigger issue of the club lacking ambition or not wanting promotion. Now, some of this comes from one or two individuals who are desperate to see Robinson f**k up, but more and more are beginning to believe this.

I'm all too often seen as ridiculously positive and defend everything the club says or does, but I simply ask, do you honestly think the Robinson would jeopardise the team, the results, and ultimately, his position, for a personal feud?

Because, in Dan Ageyi, I see a player who has natural ability, but has struggled to adapt his playing style to suit the one man up front system we play. Someone who has done well in patches, sometimes very well, but still has someway to go to be the finished product. Undoubtedly he is more of a goal threat than Jamie Mackie, but is better suited to stretching tired defences. He is a player that has a future at the club, but should be used wisely and understands the role he has. Also, if you speak with him, I am sure he will confirm that he has the support of Robinson and the coaches and knows what he needs to do to push on.

So, let's leave the Robinson bashing for those who still haven't got over the mystical whiteboard and focus on getting as many points as possible to give ourselves the best chance of promotion. Making scapegoats, beit Jamie Mackie, Sam Long, Liam (he's a bit tubby!) Kelly, or Karl Robinson. If we have the success we all hope for this season it will be down to the contributions of everyone.
 

Carpy17

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I don't think many have "bashed" Robinson for not starting Agyei, they simply look at what they see on the pitch from two players and can't understand why one gets a serious amount of game time and the other is left wanting.

I also think a call for people to stop "bashing" is kind of a like a call to stop people having an opinion or debate where one of those opinions may be seen to be negative, the whole point in a fans forum is for this exact purpose.

KR is human, like any human his actions can be influenced by his opinions, I for one have no idea whether this is the case with Agyei.
 

Scotchegg

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I don't think many have "bashed" Robinson for not starting Agyei, they simply look at what they see on the pitch from two players and can't understand why one gets a serious amount of game time and the other is left wanting.

I also think a call for people to stop "bashing" is kind of a like a call to stop people having an opinion or debate where one of those opinions may be seen to be negative, the whole point in a fans forum is for this exact purpose.

KR is human, like any human his actions can be influenced by his opinions, I for one have no idea whether this is the case with Agyei.

No one has an idea if this is the case with Ageyi, but that doesn't stop some from claiming otherwise. It is my opinion that these people are wrong, and I have offered a dozen examples which support my view.
 

Scotchegg

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"Ageyi's" name is Agyei, Dr Pangloss; a bit of respect please while you're blowing that smoke up people's a**e.
Thank you for pointing that out, I genuinely thought it was e before y. I would hate to offend whilst smoke blowing.
 

HampshireYellow

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The thing is, if you want to blindly defend the manager, you can’t really lose.

If he doesn’t ever play Agyei again, you can say ah well, we don’t know the full details, we don’t see behind the scenes, and you can point out the players who are doing well, and the wins we do have, as proof it was the right decision.

If he brings Agyei on as a sub, and he does well, you can say see! He’s only good enough to be a sub, he must be, because he’s come on as a sub and done well. All part of the plan to bring him on at this exact time.

If he starts Agyei and he does well, you can say see! He held him back till this exact moment, he wasn’t ready before, and now he’s unleashed him, at just the right moment. Genius management.

If he bring Agyei on as a sub or starts him and he doesn’t do well, you can say see! He wasn’t ready, all you fans calling for him are idiots, Robinson knew this all along, he just wasn’t ready/good enough. Should have listened to the manager not the fans.

It’s easy really!
 

Berliner

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In just the last few days we've had an experienced pro in George Thorne talk about the care and support he has had at the club, and why that helped him make the decision to play for us for free.

Ben Woodburn and those in the Liverpool youth set up have been very impressed with the way he has been supported whilst on loan and have said that a deal for him to remain next year is likely because of this.

Shandon Baptiste spoke on a number of occasions about how Robinson had supported him during his recovery from injury, and had allowed him to come back gradually and with the confidence to play his natural game.

Malachi Napa, Anthony Forde and others have also praised Robinson and the club for the support they have received whilst out injured, singling the manager out for visiting them in hospital immediately after the game.

Throughout the team we have players who have not only improved as players but have grown as men, and all have spoken highly of how the club and manager have been a huge part of this. Allowing Baptiste to captain the side against Man City first time round, then Rob Dickie for this seasons game. Mark Sykes has developed from being a fantastic, but inconsistent impact player, into a really rounded midfielder who could go on to play at the highest level. And we've also seen a number of young players coming through from the u18's to be given a taste of first team action in the EFL trophy games.

This is not just down to Robinson, but all of the coaches, fitness teams, sport science and physios behind the scene, as well as with the support and encouragement of the more senior players. There is a real togetherness throughout the club and that runs off on all age groups.

Yet, apparently, despite all of this, some will have us believe that Robinson is not selecting Dan Ageyi out of spite, or that there is some underlying issue which is the fault of the manager alone. And that this is all linked to a bigger issue of the club lacking ambition or not wanting promotion. Now, some of this comes from one or two individuals who are desperate to see Robinson f**k up, but more and more are beginning to believe this.

I'm all too often seen as ridiculously positive and defend everything the club says or does, but I simply ask, do you honestly think the Robinson would jeopardise the team, the results, and ultimately, his position, for a personal feud?

Because, in Dan Ageyi, I see a player who has natural ability, but has struggled to adapt his playing style to suit the one man up front system we play. Someone who has done well in patches, sometimes very well, but still has someway to go to be the finished product. Undoubtedly he is more of a goal threat than Jamie Mackie, but is better suited to stretching tired defences. He is a player that has a future at the club, but should be used wisely and understands the role he has. Also, if you speak with him, I am sure he will confirm that he has the support of Robinson and the coaches and knows what he needs to do to push on.

So, let's leave the Robinson bashing for those who still haven't got over the mystical whiteboard and focus on getting as many points as possible to give ourselves the best chance of promotion. Making scapegoats, beit Jamie Mackie, Sam Long, Liam (he's a bit tubby!) Kelly, or Karl Robinson. If we have the success we all hope for this season it will be down to the contributions of everyone.

Seems to me the answer is obvious, you have to have a serious injury before Robinson supports you...
EDIT: Unless you're Swedish, of course.
:sneaky:
 

Shosho

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I don't think anyone doubts KR's coaching ability. He is well respected for bringing on young talent - on the surface KR and our trading model is an ideal match.

What fans struggle to understand is how Mackie, whilst having his strengths and something to contribute continue to contribute big minutes whilst we seemingly have someone who has made a positive impact each time he has played waiting around for the odd cameo.

I think Agyei offers something very different to what we have. He has played as many league 1 minutes in his career as Sykes, he has the ability to play with his back to goal and has good ball carrying ability. KR, currently, appears to favour Agyei from the bench. There is a sound rationale behind this, unleashing his pace against tired defenders - however what if Agyei could do that over 60/70 minutes?

It is natural that the longer a player stays out of the team the better he gets (in the fans eyes), but I don't think Agyei has done anything (during matches) that would suggest he shouldn't play more of a role. The obvious caveat to this is what happens away from matches - maybe Agyei doesn't train well? Maybe there is other stuff going on? Maybe KR only sees Agyei as a sub option at the minute and is managing the squad?

Who knows! The reality is that KR seems to prefer Agyei coming on and making an impact in matches - that certainly is the trend (albeit sporadically)

Agyei's league One appearances to date:
Bolton - 16mins
Doncaster - 7mins
Southend - 8mins
MK - 18mins
Doncaster - 12mins
Gillingham - 32mins
Burton - 28mins

In that time he has had 3 shots and scored 2 goals. Dan Agyei is the goal machine we have all been waiting for
 

Scotchegg

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The thing is, if you want to blindly defend the manager, you can’t really lose.

If he doesn’t ever play Agyei again, you can say ah well, we don’t know the full details, we don’t see behind the scenes, and you can point out the players who are doing well, and the wins we do have, as proof it was the right decision.

If he brings Agyei on as a sub, and he does well, you can say see! He’s only good enough to be a sub, he must be, because he’s come on as a sub and done well. All part of the plan to bring him on at this exact time.

If he starts Agyei and he does well, you can say see! He held him back till this exact moment, he wasn’t ready before, and now he’s unleashed him, at just the right moment. Genius management.

If he bring Agyei on as a sub or starts him and he doesn’t do well, you can say see! He wasn’t ready, all you fans calling for him are idiots, Robinson knew this all along, he just wasn’t ready/good enough. Should have listened to the manager not the fans.

It’s easy really!
It's equally as easy to criticise the manager despite huge evidence to show his support for younger players in general. Agyei has looked good in games, but mostly when coming on as a sub. He will hopefully develop and become even better, but would you not agree that it is strange to use him as an example of poor management when, generally, Robinson has got most things right?
 

Scotchegg

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I don't think anyone doubts KR's coaching ability. He is well respected for bringing on young talent - on the surface KR and our trading model is an ideal match.

What fans struggle to understand is how Mackie, whilst having his strengths and something to contribute continue to contribute big minutes whilst we seemingly have someone who has made a positive impact each time he has played waiting around for the odd cameo.

I think Agyei offers something very different to what we have. He has played as many league 1 minutes in his career as Sykes, he has the ability to play with his back to goal and has good ball carrying ability. KR, currently, appears to favour Agyei from the bench. There is a sound rationale behind this, unleashing his pace against tired defenders - however what if Agyei could do that over 60/70 minutes?

It is natural that the longer a player stays out of the team the better he gets (in the fans eyes), but I don't think Agyei has done anything (during matches) that would suggest he shouldn't play more of a role. The obvious caveat to this is what happens away from matches - maybe Agyei doesn't train well? Maybe there is other stuff going on? Maybe KR only sees Agyei as a sub option at the minute and is managing the squad?

Who knows! The reality is that Agyei is coming on and making an impact in matches - that certainly is the trend (albeit sporadically)

Agyei's league One appearances to date:
Bolton - 16mins
Doncaster - 7mins
Southend - 8mins
MK - 18mins
Doncaster - 12mins
Gillingham - 32mins
Burton - 28mins

In that time he has had 3 shots and scored 2 goals. Dan Agyei is the goal machine we have all been waiting for
The last goal machine we had was Obika during preseason!
 

HampshireYellow

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It's equally as easy to criticise the manager despite huge evidence to show his support for younger players in general. Agyei has looked good in games, but mostly when coming on as a sub. He will hopefully develop and become even better, but would you not agree that it is strange to use him as an example of poor management when, generally, Robinson has got most things right?

It depends whether you have an agenda to attack the manager or not - I don’t, I’m just questioning this one decision. If someone does the washing up then deliberately smashes one plate on the floor I’m going to ask them what the hell they’re doing, if they say ‘well, I’ve washed up everything else fine, what’s the problem’ I’m still going to question that one act!

Robinson has overall been a good manager for us with a good record - but he wasn’t even going to play Agyei last night until Mackie had to pull out. That’s odd, don’t you think?
 

Scotchegg

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It depends whether you have an agenda to attack the manager or not - I don’t, I’m just questioning this one decision. If someone does the washing up then deliberately smashes one plate on the floor I’m going to ask them what the hell they’re doing, if they say ‘well, I’ve washed up everything else fine, what’s the problem’ I’m still going to question that one act!

Robinson has overall been a good manager for us with a good record - but he wasn’t even going to play Agyei last night until Mackie had to pull out. That’s odd, don’t you think?

We play 1 upfront, so starting with one striker and having one on the bench is fairly standard. As it was, with little happening for us, we went with 2 up and caused problems. That's good management but we'll never know if the same thing would have happened with whatever team was put out originally. Equally, we don't know if things would have been different had Agyei started.

The entire point of this thread was to look at the wider picture, and it is one where we have invested a lot of time and care into our playing squad. All of them. Agyei has benefited from that as much as anyone, and when his chance comes he will be better placed to take it.

No one wants to see Agyei fail, we know how valuable goals are and it he reaches his full potential then we have a huge asset on our books. But setting him up to fail doesn't help either. His time will come, and when it does it will be better for the work done behind the scenes.
 

Big Ronaldo

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Like everyone, our recent run of games has been worrying.
Goals had dried up, but still Agyei didn’t get minutes on the pitch.
It does make you wonder why.

If he is crap then fair enough, but I hope that we don’t actually find out how good this young man is until he starts banging them in for someone else?
 

Marked Ox

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I don't think anyone doubts KR's coaching ability. He is well respected for bringing on young talent - on the surface KR and our trading model is an ideal match.

What fans struggle to understand is how Mackie, whilst having his strengths and something to contribute continue to contribute big minutes whilst we seemingly have someone who has made a positive impact each time he has played waiting around for the odd cameo.

I think Agyei offers something very different to what we have. He has played as many league 1 minutes in his career as Sykes, he has the ability to play with his back to goal and has good ball carrying ability. KR, currently, appears to favour Agyei from the bench. There is a sound rationale behind this, unleashing his pace against tired defenders - however what if Agyei could do that over 60/70 minutes?

It is natural that the longer a player stays out of the team the better he gets (in the fans eyes), but I don't think Agyei has done anything (during matches) that would suggest he shouldn't play more of a role. The obvious caveat to this is what happens away from matches - maybe Agyei doesn't train well? Maybe there is other stuff going on? Maybe KR only sees Agyei as a sub option at the minute and is managing the squad?

Who knows! The reality is that KR seems to prefer Agyei coming on and making an impact in matches - that certainly is the trend (albeit sporadically)

Agyei's league One appearances to date:
Bolton - 16mins
Doncaster - 7mins
Southend - 8mins
MK - 18mins
Doncaster - 12mins
Gillingham - 32mins
Burton - 28mins

In that time he has had 3 shots and scored 2 goals. Dan Agyei is the goal machine we have all been waiting for

On the other side of the coin, I watched the u23s Vs Wimbledon and he missed 5 or 6 1-on-1s with the keeper. 😁
 

RyanioBirdio

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On the other side of the coin, I watched the u23s Vs Wimbledon and he missed 5 or 6 1-on-1s with the keeper. 😁
I wouldn’t know how good some of our other forwards are at one on one’s. They’ve never had the pace or the movement to end up in that situation to begin with.

I would rather have a striker who can get themselves into positions to miss than one that can’t. One of them will eventually put the ball in the net - the other one isn’t able to if they can’t get themselves an opportunity.
 

Sarge

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I wouldn’t know how good some of our other forwards are at one on one’s. They’ve never had the pace or the movement to end up in that situation to begin with.

I would rather have a striker who can get themselves into positions to miss than one that can’t. One of them will eventually put the ball in the net - the other one isn’t able to if they can’t get themselves an opportunity.
if memory is working ( this aint a direct quote), didnt John Aldrige claim that out of 3 or 4 chances, hed invariable miss 2 or 3 and put one of them away? ... even the very best have a strike ratio of chances to goals well, well under 100%

agree with @RyanioBirdio comment above ^^
 

Shosho

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On the other side of the coin, I watched the u23s Vs Wimbledon and he missed 5 or 6 1-on-1s with the keeper. 😁

Yep was there too! When was that? At the time it was understandable getting Agyei up to speed - not sure if that still applies?
 

Shosho

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if memory is working ( this aint a direct quote), didnt John Aldrige claim that out of 3 or 4 chances, hed invariable miss 2 or 3 and put one of them away? ... even the very best have a strike ratio of chances to goals well, well under 100%

agree with @RyanioBirdio comment above ^^

I *think* conversion for strikers sits around 25%...would have to double check (think that’s shots on target)
 

RyanioBirdio

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if memory is working ( this aint a direct quote), didnt John Aldrige claim that out of 3 or 4 chances, hed invariable miss 2 or 3 and put one of them away? ... even the very best have a strike ratio of chances to goals well, well under 100%

agree with @RyanioBirdio comment above ^^
People always used to say that Andy Cole needed five chances to score one goal. Turned out it didn’t matter much as he did get that many chances most games and therefore ended up as the Premier League’s third highest scorer ever. Sergio Aguero has been an absolute machine for nearly nine years and he’s still 26 goals behind Cole’s tally. Not bad for someone who was so wasteful.

Speaking of old Sergio, I saw Joleon Lescott on the FPL show a month or so back and he said that Aguero was average at best in training - he was very dismissive of the idea that he would’ve been a nightmare to train against. Said that he was never particularly good or difficult to play against on the training ground, but that on a matchday he was lethal. That’s just how some players are. I personally judge them on what I see on a matchday, game after game, month after month. That’s where it counts and that’s what 99% of people see exclusively - your average football fan will comment solely on what they see with no context beyond that. Why does nobody question whether seeing players on a training pitch four or five times a week for two hours at a time, rather than a stadium pitch for 90 minutes once a week, means coaches and managers don’t always see things at face value because they’re too close to it? Why is there never a discussion about that? If somebody seems alert and capable in class but can rarely pass an exam, something is wrong. If somebody seems disinterested or uncomfortable in class but gets decent marks on their papers, you may be a little confused but ultimately you have to shrug your shoulders and go “Hey, it seems to work, whatever.”

I just find it confusing and pointless watching games of tennis break out on this sort of thing. Nothing matters apart from what happens on the pitch during a competitive fixture, and in that regard things will always sort themselves out. Players will perform or they won’t, and that’s what they should be judged on. Anyone performing on matchday deserves their place and anybody not, doesn’t.
 

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