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I think it’s about time people get over the fact the satori deal fell through now Mark.
Scotchegg
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Considering no one really knows, there are plenty willing to judge!
Is the deal/debt only based on players that we have sold under Darryl’s watch e.g. Lundstrum, Johnson etc or for future transfers as well e.g. Ledson, Rothwell etc?
Would be interesting to know if Tiger did pay a fee for the club and agree to future payments based on future transfer fees or whether the deal was agreed on past and future transfer fees, plus the percentage of club sell on fees based on Darryl’s shares.
Would be interesting to know if Tiger did pay a fee for the club and agree to future payments based on future transfer fees or whether the deal was agreed on past and future transfer fees, plus the percentage of club sell on fees based on Darryl’s shares.
Lundinsponytail
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The point you are missing, Dave, is that the deal is between Tiger and Darryl, but the charge is over the club. When IL sold, he took a charge over other Eales companies so as not to sink the club. This is how and why learndirect collapsed and is a classic crappy private equity play.
My information is that Darryl wanted 7 million, on top of the four mill he whipped out last summer. Tiger clearly didn't have the funds to pay so they agreed to load the remainder in to the club.
We now have liabilities to Kassam owing to dreadful licence, are locked into Darryl getting the revenues from anything held at Oxford City and any transfer income for the foreeeable disappears, but the club has to then replace those players.
This is a horrible, horrible outcome unless Tiger can find big cash, and quickly. Our current structural loss is 2 million and we have no commercial and marketing team to make up slack.
Just got to hope that all your implied claims that there is big money behind Tiger is true, my friend, because otherwise we will be in massive trouble in the near future. Transfer income is the only thing that has made the current cost base even vaguely sustainable.
Does it? I am not sure how it quite indicares that?
Having said that it would be no surprise if DE tried to get the best price. Didnt IL do exactly the same thing?
Scotchegg
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DE owns the club. Tiger wants to buy. DE lays out his terms. Tiger agrees. Tiger promises sig
Firstly, your 'information' is notoriously dodgy! Secondly, can we make up our minds if Tiger is an asset stripping vanity buyer, or an idiot who has been mugged off by DE? A deal has been agreed by 2 business men and both appear happy. Tiger is no fool and will know exactly what he needs to put in to the club to balance the books and has committed to do so. I'm sure that you'll give him time to prove this either way?
Lundinsponytail
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If
I have never claimed that Tiger is an asset stripper.
And if you think that the club not being able to achieve any income from player sales for the foreseeable future is a good thing then I rest my case on everything I have ever said about you.
You really do not want to be defending this deal. It is a shocker. The debt should be from Tiger himself to Darryl. The club needs every single little bit of income it can get.
The point is so obvious that I am really having to try not to be patronising in explaining it to you.
But then if you do not care about the sustainability of the club then why not go the whole hog and put out a press release welcoming it?
I have never claimed that Tiger is an asset stripper.
And if you think that the club not being able to achieve any income from player sales for the foreseeable future is a good thing then I rest my case on everything I have ever said about you.
You really do not want to be defending this deal. It is a shocker. The debt should be from Tiger himself to Darryl. The club needs every single little bit of income it can get.
The point is so obvious that I am really having to try not to be patronising in explaining it to you.
But then if you do not care about the sustainability of the club then why not go the whole hog and put out a press release welcoming it?
arthurturner
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"The Club needs every single bit of income it can get"- Agreed, and the responsibility for providing that rests with the new owner of the club, i.e Oxford United Football Club Limited. The terms upon which the former owner sold the company to the new owner are entirely a matter for them. Just like the sale and purchase of any other limited liabilty company. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.
Scotchegg
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I have no problem patronising you as you really don't understand do you?
DE says he wants x amount. Tiger says I'll give you some now and the rest when the deals come through on your sales. DE says thanks very much and both shake on it.
This is the sort of thing that happens in business every day! The transfer money belongs to the club, but the club belongs to Tiger and he has stated that there will be significant investment in the club despite these payments.
And its great that you think I'd be releasing a statement to the press on this matter, but not sure that I worthy of such attention!! But I'm flattered that you see me as so much more!!
OUFCGav
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It's based on an amount of debt secured against assets. So the only thing that happens is that debt is paid back on terms. It is not some sort of future tithe against transfers (just happens to be we don't actually have any fixed assets other than the transfer contracts for future payments to secure against).
Gary Baldi
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Presumably DE and Tiger have a list of what revenues will be arriving at what date, hence the reference in the charge. The unknown is the amount of money that will be left unpaid after those monies come through and how soon Tiger/the club can pay it off, with the 10% interest charge in mind.
The biggest potential concern is why Tiger paying DE with the clubs money to takeover the club. Let's see what happens
The biggest potential concern is why Tiger paying DE with the clubs money to takeover the club. Let's see what happens
Lundinsponytail
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Ok
Ok. How to put this in ladybird terms?
Debt sinks companies. It is indeed the owners' job to try to reach cashflow obligations and any debt obligations. Until, one day, it cannot and the entity becomes unsustainable. This is what happens with numerous private equity owned companies. Including learndirect.
Now. Let us apply this to OUFC. Over the last four years, the club has made operating losses of circa 7 million and made net transfer income of circa 7.5 million.
Remove the first 4.5 million of that transfer income and the actual loss would have been 3.5 million. And that in a time of numerous great Cup runs.
So that is the situation that Tiger has taken on. A structural loss of 2 million a year with no mitigating transfer income for, say, the next 2 and a half years. So over that time the is going to lose 5 million, and doubtless run up another huge debt to him in the process.
Now... A 5 million loss might be well within his pocket change. But if so then it is very strange that a similar sum scared him off at Reading and that he couldn't scramble together the money to buy the club over six months and could only manage 2.5 million .
His get out for running costs at RFC was to sell property. This time it could have been selling players for the next two summers. Not any longer. This time, a d for the first time, Tiger is actually going to need his own deep pockets.
Ok. How to put this in ladybird terms?
Debt sinks companies. It is indeed the owners' job to try to reach cashflow obligations and any debt obligations. Until, one day, it cannot and the entity becomes unsustainable. This is what happens with numerous private equity owned companies. Including learndirect.
Now. Let us apply this to OUFC. Over the last four years, the club has made operating losses of circa 7 million and made net transfer income of circa 7.5 million.
Remove the first 4.5 million of that transfer income and the actual loss would have been 3.5 million. And that in a time of numerous great Cup runs.
So that is the situation that Tiger has taken on. A structural loss of 2 million a year with no mitigating transfer income for, say, the next 2 and a half years. So over that time the is going to lose 5 million, and doubtless run up another huge debt to him in the process.
Now... A 5 million loss might be well within his pocket change. But if so then it is very strange that a similar sum scared him off at Reading and that he couldn't scramble together the money to buy the club over six months and could only manage 2.5 million .
His get out for running costs at RFC was to sell property. This time it could have been selling players for the next two summers. Not any longer. This time, a d for the first time, Tiger is actually going to need his own deep pockets.
Scotchegg
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I guess it depends on how we seperate the clubs money from that of the owner. DE invests x millions of his money and can therefore have a vested interest in any more that comes back into the club. He can pocket that money, or reinvest (his money, his choice).
Tiger may have saved dipping in to his own pocket now in order to pay DE back later when the transfer installment comes in. But this may be so that he can heavily invest in the manager and playing squad this summer. And I would guess that more money will be invested into the club than will be lost from these transfer payments. So I really do not think the club will be effected at all.
arthurturner
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Scotchegg
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T’ai Chi
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From the info I can glean from recent posts ( and there are some clever lads on here ) I do not think Darryl had any intention of paying out any hefty transfer fees. He was extremely fortunate to get 1.6 for O'Dowda and even more fortunate to get over 2 for Johnson. Without this income he could have been in trouble. Anyway, I do not think many Chairmen expect to make money out of it, its more of an ego trip. We have had two exciting years with Darryl (who can forget Carlisle and Wycombe). I dont bear him any ill will. I think most of us feel that way.
