National Politics 🔴 The Labour Party

[Essexyellows]

Even if your don't make a profit after mortgage and other costs you still get a house bought for you! Why should you be entitled to double bubble when others can't afford to buy one house in the first place?

Some people work hard, invest in things, then work a bit harder and EARN a return on their hard work/investment.

Other people choose to sit on their ars*s demanding more from the system rather than go and get it.

Others get lucky and are born into wealth.

And that is how life has always been for centuries.

 

[QR]

You really are unbelievable.
You sound envious of anyone who likes to better themselves, but like Burnham wanting to help out others that can’t be bothered to do so.

What a ridiculous reaction to me pointing out the financial reality of what's going on.

 

[Peterdev]

What a ridiculous reaction to me pointing out the financial reality of what's going on.

What a ridiculous reaction to me pointing out the financial reality of what's going on.

Are you saying that’s not a true reflection of how you feel?
I’m surprised you always think the right approach is to sting anyone in the pocket you perceive to be better off without knowing their circumstances.

 

[QR]

Are you saying that’s not a true reflection of how you feel?
I’m surprised you always think the right approach is to sting anyone in the pocket you perceive to be better off without knowing their circumstances.

I've spoken with a few friends who own rental properties and have moaned that their profit it being eaten into when mortgage rates go up. When I point out that if they made no profit at all they are still having a property bought for them they reaction had been 'oh, I hadn't really looked at it like that'. I'm pointing out this really on here and you're haven't a hissy fit.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

I've spoken with a few friends who own rental properties and have moaned that their profit it being eaten into when mortgage rates go up. When I point out that if they made no profit at all they are still having a property bought for them they reaction had been 'oh, I hadn't really looked at it like that'. I'm pointing out this really on here and you're haven't a hissy fit.

I'm surprised there are many landlords out there who are that dim - I looked into doing it about 4 years ago and you have to have your wits about you to make any money at all.

Safe to say I couldn't make the numbers work - (better off investing into a S&S ISA anyway!!)

 

[Peterdev]

Reply to QR
As we have a big mortgage on the property the amount of profit is minimal.
To imply we’re lucky to have a second property is a bit surprising when you are not fully knowing all the figures.
But hey ho, thank you for your contribution even if it is unhelpful.
You might like to buy it

 

[Peterdev]

I'm surprised there are many landlords out there who are that dim - I looked into doing it about 4 years ago and you have to have your wits about you to make any money at all.

Safe to say I couldn't make the numbers work - (better off investing into a S&S ISA anyway!!)

We did well on the first one we sold three years ago. But of course, the boundaries have changed and are now heavily geared on protecting the tenant. A property my brother had let out last year, unluckily had a tenant who made no payments all for six months. Unbelievably the council are obliged to rehouse scum like that. I’m sure most tenants are good but that said, there are too many hurdles to climb.
I would advise anyone against entering buy to let investment with a Labour government in charge. They hate landlords.
Agree with ISAs but don’t be surprised if Healy has one eye on those in his budget. Savers will be his next target.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

We did well on the first one we sold three years ago. But of course, the boundaries have changed and are now heavily geared on protecting the tenant. A property my brother had let out last year, unluckily had a tenant who made no payments all for six months. Unbelievably the council are obliged to rehouse scum like that. I’m sure most tenants are good but that said, there are too many hurdles to climb.
I would advise anyone against entering buy to let investment with a Labour government in charge. They hate landlords.
Agree with ISAs but don’t be surprised if Healy has one eye on those in his budget. Savers will be his next target.

When I did the sums I could just about break even, but any maintenance or arrears problems would have left me in a hole. I would imagine you must have that cushion otherwise the tenant could put you in arrears on your own mortgages quite quickly.

Ultimately there are no new "small" landlords anymore because it isn't profitable, and existing small landlords are selling up and leaving the game (I read recently that the flat market in London is so saturated that a huge majority remain unsold after 6 months).

Leaving only large corporate landlords, a dwindling supply of rental properties, and surging prices over the coming years. It's a terrible time to be a renter, or renter-to-be.

 

[Peterdev]

When I did the sums I could just about break even, but any maintenance or arrears problems would have left me in a hole. I would imagine you must have that cushion otherwise the tenant could put you in arrears on your own mortgages quite quickly.

Ultimately there are no new "small" landlords anymore because it isn't profitable, and existing small landlords are selling up and leaving the game (I read recently that the flat market in London is so saturated that a huge majority remain unsold after 6 months).

Leaving only large corporate landlords, a dwindling supply of rental properties, and surging prices over the coming years. It's a terrible time to be a renter, or renter-to-be.

I agree it’s best to be out of it. Unfortunately there is now a new market, HMOs, around Oxford and London that attract huge occupations, loads of vehicles and dustbins. Areas are becoming undesirable as a result

 

[Village-Yellow]

…

What a ridiculous reaction to me pointing out the financial reality of what's going on.

You could possibly be making a huge assumption about the "financial reality" of what's going on.

I've had clients with the £80k cars (heavy finance), big house (hefty mortgage), big holidays (on the credit card) and hardly a pot to p**s in, making minimal provision for their future.

On the other hand I've had clients driving around in paid for 6-7 year old run of the mill cars and living in a modest house with no mortgage whilst accumulating significant investments for their future.

I am surprised that you of all posters fall into the trap of making basic assumptions about someone just because of the type of car they may drive or the size of the house they live in.

Things are rarely what they seem, I discovered that very early on in my career.

 

[Village-Yellow]

When I did the sums I could just about break even, but any maintenance or arrears problems would have left me in a hole. I would imagine you must have that cushion otherwise the tenant could put you in arrears on your own mortgages quite quickly.

Ultimately there are no new "small" landlords anymore because it isn't profitable, and existing small landlords are selling up and leaving the game (I read recently that the flat market in London is so saturated that a huge majority remain unsold after 6 months).

Leaving only large corporate landlords, a dwindling supply of rental properties, and surging prices over the coming years. It's a terrible time to be a renter, or renter-to-be.

There is little mileage in the current climate to actively seek to become involved in B2L, for the most part.

High entry costs and taxes, higher taxes moving forward and heavier restrictions on cost deductions on top of ever increasing legislation and high mortgage rates.

All at a time when savings interest rates for the equity you may have to put into the property are still reasonable.

For someone who may have got into the market 20-30 years ago it is a very different situation, assuming LL have been bringing those mortgage balances down. The higher rents and decreasing mortgage payments significantly offset the burden of increasing taxes and other costs.

A highly geared rental portfolio can become a real problem and a disincentive, which I guess was the intention by governments past and present.

 

[QR]

…


You could possibly be making a huge assumption about the "financial reality" of what's going on.

I've had clients with the £80k cars (heavy finance), big house (hefty mortgage), big holidays (on the credit card) and hardly a pot to p**s in, making minimal provision for their future.

On the other hand I've had clients driving around in paid for 6-7 year old run of the mill cars and living in a modest house with no mortgage whilst accumulating significant investments for their future.

I am surprised that you of all posters fall into the trap of making basic assumptions about someone just because of the type of car they may drive or the size of the house they live in.

Things are rarely what they seem, I discovered that very early on in my career.

Er, what assumption have I made? Point it out.

 

[Peterdev]

When I did the sums I could just about break even, but any maintenance or arrears problems would have left me in a hole. I would imagine you must have that cushion otherwise the tenant could put you in arrears on your own mortgages quite quickly.

Ultimately there are no new "small" landlords anymore because it isn't profitable, and existing small landlords are selling up and leaving the game (I read recently that the flat market in London is so saturated that a huge majority remain unsold after 6 months).

Leaving only large corporate landlords, a dwindling supply of rental properties, and surging prices over the coming years. It's a terrible time to be a renter, or renter-to-be.

A lot of the problem has been caused by a drive by the left to push out private landlords most of whom happen to be good and fulfil a service that the council does not provide.
Tenants have been afforded far more protection and now can live somewhere and pay no rent for six months before the court order arrives. To add insult to injury may damage the property. The law is very much in the side of the tenant. When you consider there are increasing cases of no rent at all being paid and it’s down to a civil court. It should be either fraud or theft.
Now the fear of interest rates rising will worsen matters for many.
Government policy is to blame for the mess we are in

 

[QR]

A lot of the problem has been caused by a drive by the left to push out private landlords most of whom happen to be good and fulfil a service that the council does not provide.
Tenants have been afforded far more protection and now can live somewhere and pay no rent for six months before the court order arrives. To add insult to injury may damage the property. The law is very much in the side of the tenant. When you consider there are increasing cases of no rent at all being paid and it’s down to a civil court. It should be either fraud or theft.
Now the fear of interest rates rising will worsen matters for many.
Government policy is to blame for the mess we are in

I agree with parts of this. The law has, correctly in my view, been strengthened to protect tenants rights but this should have gone hand in glove with more protection for landlords against non-payment and acts of malicious damage.

 

[Village-Yellow]

Er, what assumption have I made? Point it out.

Then please explain the financial reality you are referring to, when you have zero knowledge of an individual’s circumstances

What is this financial reality?

EDIT - I'll help you. Not all LL are having a property bought for them.

 

[QR]

Then please explain the financial reality you are referring to, when you have zero knowledge of an individual’s circumstances

What is this financial reality?

As I said above, the financial reality is that rent is used to pay the mortgage* on the property and costs. From talking to friends who have second homes that they rent out these cost will/can include ground rents, payment to agencies who find tenants and ongoing repairs and maintenance, for which they set aside and amount each month into some kind of sinking fund (their words not mine). I'm sure there'll be others cost. Anyway after these cost they turn a profit. The reality I was pointing out to them was that even if they don't make a profit or in their case the profit is reduced they are still having a property bought for them. Do you not think this is so then?

*For anyone who doesn't have a mortgage I assume they will have considered the options of renting or selling (and the resulting interest earned) and picked the option that best suited their situation at the time.

 

[Peterdev]

I agree with parts of this. The law has, correctly I'm my view, be strengthened to protect tenants rights buy this should have gone hand in glove with more protection for landlords against non-payment and acts of malicious damage.

I’m pleased to see you at least acknowledge that there should be some protection for landlords and their properties.
Unfortunately because the government has seen fit to strengthen tenants rights, what has happened is that some tenants see this as a cue to avoid payments leaving the landlords having to fill the void whilst often having to pay a mortgage. Landlords today are finding it increasingly difficult to run a business and because of increasing costs are being forced out of the market, losing a lot of money in the process.
I’m not sure how the government will fill the gap when landlords ultimately feel forced to sell their properties.
At the moment it looks like we will have many HMOs on our streets with all the pressures on services that creates.

 

[Village-Yellow]

..

As I said above, the financial reality is that rent is used to pay the mortgage* on the property and costs. From talking to friends who have second homes that they rent out these cost will/can include ground rents, payment to agencies who find tenants and ongoing repairs and maintenance, for which they set aside and amount each month into some kind of sinking fund (their words not mine). I'm sure there'll be others cost. Anyway after these cost they turn a profit. The reality I west pointing out to them was that even if they don't make a profit or in their case the profit is reduced they are still having a property bought for them. Do you not think this is so then?

*For anyone who doesn't have a mortgage I assume they will have considered the options of renting or selling (and the resulting interest earned) and picked the option that best suited their situation at the time.

Not in every case, no.

High interest rates, annual costs and the way the tax laws now work can erode any surplus funds that are actually available to buy the property by way of reducing the mortgage over time. You do find that LL can in many situations be picking up the repayment of the capital element of their mortgage themselves.

Throw in the need for substantial periodic repairs for dilapidations or general trashing of the property and periods of non payment of rent, LL's can find that the value of the property is not increasing, the mortgage is not coming down (out of rental funds anyway) and potentially other substantial expenses are looming.

 

[QR]

..


Not in every case, no.

High interest rates, annual costs and the way the tax laws now work can erode any surplus funds that are actually available to buy the property by way of reducing the mortgage over time. You do find that LL can in many situations be picking up the repayment of the capital element of their mortgage themselves.

Throw in the need for substantial periodic repairs for dilapidations or general trashing of the property and periods of non payment of rent, LL's can find that the value of the property is not increasing, the mortgage is not coming down (out of rental funds anyway) and potentially other substantial expenses are looming.

Maybe landlords who have overpaid for a run down property or have no financial acumen at all but I haven't seen, heard or read anything to suggest making a lost across the board (i.e needing to use ones own funds to pay the mortgage) is widespread.

 

[Peterdev]

Maybe landlords who have overpaid for a run down property or have no financial acumen at all but I haven't seen, heard or read anything to suggest making a lost across the board (i.e needing to use ones own funds to pay the mortgage) is widespread.

There has been a level of overcommitment or greed in getting on the BTL market.
My brother in law had three buy tickets in Devon that he scrupulously looked after and made an 11% return but decided last year that with the likliehood of a Labour government coming in his business would be destroyed. He sold up. Correct decision. Plenty of others have stayed put and regretted it.

 

[Coffin Dodger]

I agree it’s best to be out of it. Unfortunately there is now a new market, HMOs, around Oxford and London that attract huge occupations, loads of vehicles and dustbins. Areas are becoming undesirable as a result

HMO's have been around for years they used to be called bed-sits.
By far the biggest problem now is B2L owners moving into the airBnB market taking much needed accomodation off the market.
I live in a small block of 40 flats I reckon 20% are now holiday lets.

 

[Essexyellows]

There is little mileage in the current climate to actively seek to become involved in B2L, for the most part.

High entry costs and taxes, higher taxes moving forward and heavier restrictions on cost deductions on top of ever increasing legislation and high mortgage rates.

All at a time when savings interest rates for the equity you may have to put into the property are still reasonable.

For someone who may have got into the market 20-30 years ago it is a very different situation, assuming LL have been bringing those mortgage balances down. The higher rents and decreasing mortgage payments significantly offset the burden of increasing taxes and other costs.

A highly geared rental portfolio can become a real problem and a disincentive, which I guess was the intention by governments past and present.

This is true and a raft of reasons a lot of B2L landlords are baling out, which in turn leads to fewer rental properties, driving higher rents that folk struggle to afford without even thinking about saving a deposit to escape it.

Around these parts a decently renovated 3 bed ex council semi will set you back £1,500- £1,800 a month in rent.

Cost to buy one, if you are fast, around £260/£280k.

Depending on mortgage payments/deposit etc you aren`t getting rich off that.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

HMO's have been around for years they used to be called bed-sits.
By far the biggest problem now is B2L owners moving into the airBnB market taking much needed accomodation off the market.
I live in a small block of 40 flats I reckon 20% are now holiday lets.

HMOs used to be 5 bed houses carved up into 5 flats.

HMOs are now 5 bed houses carved up into 15 flats, where every room has been subdivided with a basic stud wall and the place is completely ruined. I can only imagine what it's like living next to one of those.

 

[QR]

HMOs used to be 5 bed houses carved up into 5 flats.

HMOs are now 5 bed houses carved up into 15 flats, where every room has been subdivided with a basic stud wall and the place is completely ruined. I can only imagine what it's like living next to one of those.

What you say might be completely true or it may be an erroneous extrapolation bases on a small sample set. I genuinely don't know as my only source is Home under the hammer. How are you so sure of this? You're now going to tell me you're an estate agent or your partner is.

 

[Isle of Wight Yellow]

 

[Londox]

I can only imagine what it's like living next to one of those.

There are two on my street. Police are called to an incident at least once a week. Obvious dealing goes on - nothing done about it.

 

[Londox]

View attachment 38049

Its hard to tell if this is satire or real..

 

[Basham Wonderland]

What you say might be completely true or it may be an erroneous extrapolation bases on a small sample set. I genuinely don't know as my only source is Home under the hammer. How are you so sure of this? You're now going to tell me you're an estate agent or your partner is.

I'm an estate agent or my partner is

 

[Basham Wonderland]

View attachment 38049

"Build a united Ireland that joins the UK"

 

[Symp59]

View attachment 38049

Has any one seen the bond market today they lambasted Liz Truss ,when the IMF are telling us how we run our economy its going to be a nightmare it will make 2010 look good ,back in 1976 when we were last bailed out because of the disastrous Labour government its coming again. But this country is in a worst place because of so many shocking decisions, Where's Tony Blair when you need his take on it ? oh he's left the country. We are heading into a really tough place in our history, strap in and this lot are going to take us down a dark path.