National Politics 🔴 The Labour Party

[Basham Wonderland]

I was reading about Jonathan Reynolds who is the business secretary.
His employment comprises of union work and political research assistant roles. Never run a business, beggars belief.

What about Housing Secretary Angela Rayner, who can't even manage to pay the appropriate tax on her own housing...

 

[m]

Yeah, and Wes Streeting hasn't invaded a single country.

And when did Yvette Cooper last do a hip replacement, or even a tonsillectomy?

 

[Symp59]

Unfortunately the push back on increasing personal allowance is already in play.

So, restricted to just more tinkering around the edges cos there is no money to do anything that will really make a palpable difference.

Bus fares dropping by a pound, no vat on electricity..

Absolutely if there's no pot to p..s in ,theres not alot you can do and Burnham will not try and sort out the Welfare state ,unfortunately he will probably add to it .The debt mountain keeps climbing. We are in a thankless place whoever trys to anything.

 

[Symp59]

Don’t be surprised if Lord Sir Sadiq Khan is parachuted in to government too.
It’s limited help for pubs whilst leaving restaurants out of the equation.
I’d be happy if vape shops were hit big time, they’re a blight on the high street.

And most not legit business he should hit Turkish barbers as well

 

[Peterdev]

And most not legit business he should hit Turkish barbers as well

Agreed on that. Many are a front for crime

 

[chuckbert]

Those sound like choices. You dont have to get married i didn't as I don't want to risk loosing what I worked hard for. And too many people blame their class for just choosing to be uneducated. I am working class from two manual labourer parents but still educated myself financially. Again raising a family is a choice too and choosing employment as a mobile hairdresser. Why should the state pay for peoples choices? Bring on meritocracy bring on accountability. You make your bed you lie in it. You want to retire stick some money in a pension each month dont rely on the state.

So you’re advocating that people shouldn’t get married and have children if they want to be able to survive financially? That sounds sustainable.

You’re clearly an intelligent person. How should things work for the 50% of people that are below average in intelligence?

 

[Basham Wonderland]

Yeah, and Wes Streeting hasn't invaded a single country.

And when did Yvette Cooper last do a hip replacement, or even a tonsillectomy?

Yvette cooper is actually a perfect example of the type of person who shouldn't be in politics, unless perhaps in a diplomatic role.

Daughter of a TU leader, hugely privileged education, then straight into politics with absolutely no real world experience whatsoever. Just decades knocking about in Westminster playing politics.

Foreign secretary, Home secretary and now Health Secretary? She's not got a background in any of them, let alone all three of them!

Isn't this pretty much exactly the same as the "Eton boy" complaint many people have about the Tories??

 

[m]

Yvette cooper is actually a perfect example of the type of person who shouldn't be in politics, unless perhaps in a diplomatic role.

Daughter of a TU leader, hugely privileged education, then straight into politics with absolutely no real world experience whatsoever. Just decades knocking about in Westminster playing politics.

Foreign secretary, Home secretary and now Health Secretary? She's not got a background in any of them, let alone all three of them!

Isn't this pretty much exactly the same as the "Eton boy" complaint many people have about the Tories??

Stunningly few politicians of all parties have relevant experience for ministerial positions. That was pretty much my point.

And yeah, wouldn't argue with your last line.

 

[boogaloo]

The ministers in charge will surround themselves with civil servants who know their field of work insides out. The defense minister will have meetings with generals and admirals. The chancellor will have meetings with leading economists and the bank of England etc. The true test of how good they do their job is how much they actually listed to what they're told.

And with Yvette Cooper being the daughter of a Trade Union leader, that might not be such a bad thing given how Britain has had 14 years of neoliberalism from the Tories. It's about time the pendulum started to swing towards the workers rather than the elites.

 

[chuckbert]

Yvette cooper is actually a perfect example of the type of person who shouldn't be in politics, unless perhaps in a diplomatic role.

Daughter of a TU leader, hugely privileged education, then straight into politics with absolutely no real world experience whatsoever. Just decades knocking about in Westminster playing politics.

Foreign secretary, Home secretary and now Health Secretary? She's not got a background in any of them, let alone all three of them!

Isn't this pretty much exactly the same as the "Eton boy" complaint many people have about the Tories??

I agree to some extent, but having an education and being a child of a trade union leader are relatively positive in my view. Having uneducated vibez candidates and privileged grifters isn’t great either. “Successful businessmen” is often touted, but I wouldn’t trust most of them with my lunch let alone my children’s future.
Is there a way we can only have politicians who don’t really want to be politicians?

 

[OUFCGav]

Absolutely if there's no pot to p..s in ,theres not alot you can do and Burnham will not try and sort out the Welfare state ,unfortunately he will probably add to it .The debt mountain keeps climbing. We are in a thankless place whoever trys to anything.

the real issue is social care, and that is an issue that governments for years have been avoiding.

 

[Symp59]

Yvette cooper is actually a perfect example of the type of person who shouldn't be in politics, unless perhaps in a diplomatic role.

Daughter of a TU leader, hugely privileged education, then straight into politics with absolutely no real world experience whatsoever. Just decades knocking about in Westminster playing politics.

Foreign secretary, Home secretary and now Health Secretary? She's not got a background in any of them, let alone all three of them!

Isn't this pretty much exactly the same as the "Eton boy" complaint many people have about the Tories??

And sounds like she was lobied for alot of money by pharmaceutical companies, it doesn't matter what party you are in they don't do it for us joe public

 

[chuckbert]

And sounds like she was lobied for alot of money by pharmaceutical companies, it doesn't matter what party you are in they don't do it for us joe public

Go on then - evidence? Or is this business about the recruitment company?
I wonder if she’s had million dollar unrestricted gifts from randoms.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

I agree to some extent, but having an education and being a child of a trade union leader are relatively positive in my view. Having uneducated vibez candidates and privileged grifters isn’t great either. “Successful businessmen” is often touted, but I wouldn’t trust most of them with my lunch let alone my children’s future.
Is there a way we can only have politicians who don’t really want to be politicians?

Obviously you need an education to be a secretary of state, but yet again we've got an Oxford / LSE educated leader in cabinet. I thought we were moving away from all that? Is a sheltered Eton education now OK?

She is a privileged grifter - a politician who is a a child of a politician who went to Oxford. A classic Tory nepo baby. About as much "real world" experience as Jacob Rees Mogg.

I don't really understand why the Secretary of State isn't normally just a leader from that sector, appointed by the PM, with less of a public facing role. Health secretary could easily just be some old GMC chief or Consultant who has seen it all.

 

[chuckbert]

Obviously you need an education to be a secretary of state, but yet again we've got an Oxford / LSE educated leader in cabinet. I thought we were moving away from all that? Is a sheltered Eton education now OK?

She is a privileged grifter - a politician who is a a child of a politician who went to Oxford. A classic Tory nepo baby. About as much "real world" experience as Jacob Rees Mogg.

I don't really understand why the Secretary of State isn't normally just a leader from that sector, appointed by the PM, with less of a public facing role. Health secretary could easily just be some old GMC chief or Consultant who has seen it all.

There’s a big difference between “went to Eton” and “went to Oxford”. Would like to see evidence of “grifter”. Would like EY’s opinion on GMC chief or Consultant.

 

[boogaloo]

There’s a big difference between “went to Eton” and “went to Oxford”. Would like to see evidence of “grifter”. Would like EY’s opinion on GMC chief or Consultant.

Exactly. Yvette was educated at Eggar's School, a comprehensive school in Holybourne. The fact she did well in her studies and made it to Oxford University shouldn't disqualify her from a top job in government.

 

[OUFCGav]

Has Elon Musk made cars? No, he was just rich enough to buy an existing company. So he shouldn't be CEO of Tesla? No, like many CEO's they are leaders who have people around them who are experts. I don't think it is different for ministers.

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

Has Elon Musk made cars? No, he was just rich enough to buy an existing company. So he shouldn't be CEO of Tesla? No, like many CEO's they are leaders who have people around them who are experts. I don't think it is different for ministers.

This
leadership is not about knowing how a business works from the bottom up.
My old CEO would always make promises in client meetings. He had no idea how to do stuff he just knew that if he said we could do something we’d have to figure out how to get it done.

A good Leader will move from one industry to another and be hugely successful.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

There’s a big difference between “went to Eton” and “went to Oxford”. Would like to see evidence of “grifter”. Would like EY’s opinion on GMC chief or Consultant.

Evidence of grifter is a lifetime in politics with no real world experience.

I am looking forward to reading these "in favour of the grifters" arguments from you when the Tories eventually make their way back into power - the Eton boys will appreciate your support.

 

[chuckbert]

Evidence of grifter is a lifetime in politics with no real world experience.

I am looking forward to reading these "in favour of the grifters" arguments from you when the Tories eventually make their way back into power - the Eton boys will appreciate your support.

People who get paid for doing a job that someone else would be getting paid for if they weren’t doing it aren’t grifters. People who get paid money for influence, valueless products and confidential information are.
Which side are you on?

 

[Essexyellows]

There’s a big difference between “went to Eton” and “went to Oxford”. Would like to see evidence of “grifter”. Would like EY’s opinion on GMC chief or Consultant.

Health should be led, practically, by someone who understands the NHS.

Politically it can be anybody.

Leadership is direction of travel, strategy and vision.......... something sorely lacking in politicians.

 

[Matty Greens Left Boot]

I'm all for providing for yourself, but your last two posts have been extreme and completely unrealistic.

they're not unrealistic i know two people who have done exactly that outside of me. I know people complaining about lack of pension who chose to spend 6 k a year on holiday yet i invested it. They own a new car yet I run a 200k miles car and service it myself. I see too many people claiming living better standards of life than i do relining on the state to bail them out. I lived of minimum wage whilst investing 60% of salary for years. It can be done if you are prepared to make sacrifices.

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

Health should be led, practically, by someone who understands the NHS.

Politically it can be anybody.

Leadership is direction of travel, strategy and vision.......... something sorely lacking in politicians.

I don’t disagree but what do you think the solution is?
The more I think about it Politics is actually a terrible way to run things, but it is the democratic way.

 

[Essexyellows]

I don’t disagree but what do you think the solution is?
The more I think about it Politics is actually a terrible way to run things, but it is the democratic way.

The NHS should be run by clinicians and people who know the system. The nuts and bolts of it.

The short term elected politicians should just dish out the money and ensure basic targets are met'

When it comes to money there should be a projected budget across 20, 30 or more years with a cross party agreement not to change it in line with electoral cycles.

Build in to the budget predicted population & demographic changes, inflation, wages and have a contingency for things like Covid..... and keep the sensible balance of private sector research and support.

Sounds simple but it could be done if the cross party will was there.

 

[Matty Greens Left Boot]

So you’re advocating that people shouldn’t get married and have children if they want to be able to survive financially? That sounds sustainable.

You’re clearly an intelligent person. How should things work for the 50% of people that are below average in intelligence?

I didnt say they shouldn't get married I chose not to to protect my assets two equal parters earning equally probably could get married. There are pros and cons to each not least inheritance tax issues. Likewise kids they are a choice you there is a strong link between parenting and child outcome the state should be encouraging the people likely to produce good offspring to have children and discouraging the others.

We need to reindustrialise Britain we need less mobile hair salons and nail bars and low paid service sector economy. We need more manufacturing and export jobs for people to do we need engineers and manufacturers. The post 80's deindustrialisation has been an abject failure leading us into the welfare Britain we are today.

Personally to ensure there is some element of safety net i would work on the primary focus of meritorcracy and reward work and treat harshly unearned income.

I would wack up inheritance tax and do something to remove trusts as avoiding inheritance tax. Morally i dont have a higher limit for inheritance tax and that should include in full primary residence. I expect not a penny from my parents and feel its right that that i should not expect to pass a penny on tax free.

Then for me its UBI possibly set at a low level possibly about state pension age then ditch all other benefits including state pension. Then if you want more you work and earn more. I would stop pensioners from avoiding NI on pension withdrawals by abolishing NI and moving it into income tax. I would remove all employer taxes on employment. So no employers NI. Oh and remove the personal allowance.

Replace council tax/stamp duty with a land value tax.

See that's not some neoliberal right wing agenda.

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

The NHS should be run by clinicians and people who know the system. The nuts and bolts of it.

The short term elected politicians should just dish out the money and ensure basic targets are met'

When it comes to money there should be a projected budget across 20, 30 or more years with a cross party agreement not to change it in line with electoral cycles.

Build in to the budget predicted population & demographic changes, inflation, wages and have a contingency for things like Covid..... and keep the sensible balance of private sector research and support.

Sounds simple but it could be done if the cross party will was there.

It won’t happen because the turkeys won’t vote for Christmas, but this across most sectors in government control is the only way a country could function successfully

 

[Village-Yellow]

I didnt say they shouldn't get married I chose not to to protect my assets two equal parters earning equally probably could get married.

This is a sad outlook. Your name isn't Ebenezer by any chance?

And how do you know what a partners income will be. Life is dynamic and work situations change/develop as does earning potential.

There are pros and cons to each not least inheritance tax issues.

I don't think a sole purpose to getting married would be for tax reasons. Although I have to admit I have advised a few clients to have a death bed marriage to mitigate tax, but that was a last ditch attempt to protect family wealth when circumstances took an unexpected turn or people had procrastinated over tax planning.

Likewise kids they are a choice you there is a strong link between parenting and child outcome the state should be encouraging the people likely to produce good offspring to have children and discouraging the others.

Okay, how do you determine who can produce good offspring/bad offspring?

For example, my wife and her brother grew up on a council estate. Whilst their parents have always been decent hardworking people, they were either old fashioned in their opinion of owning their own home or financially it was a stretch.

My wife achieved 10 GSCE a and a* grades. 4 a's at A level , has a Masters in BA and is a hard working, high earning Finance Director. Her brother has a PHD and has a successful career in the US.

Would they have fallen into your "no children" category ? And what if I was not on a comparable earning level to my wife? Should I have got a divorce?

And I know some very clever hard working parents who have produced utter imbeciles.

We need to reindustrialise Britain we need less mobile hair salons and nail bars and low paid service sector economy. We need more manufacturing and export jobs for people to do we need engineers and manufacturers. The post 80's deindustrialisation has been an abject failure leading us into the welfare Britain we are today.

Can't disagree with that. Too much money laundering filtering through many such establishments. But they are still a requirement, so how do you weed out the honest, hard workers?

Personally to ensure there is some element of safety net i would work on the primary focus of meritorcracy and reward work and treat harshly unearned income.

Having just said that you have spent your life sacrificing, it seems a bit odd that you then want to target yourself because you have forged a life of self sufficiency through good investment planning to generate decent unearned income.

I would wack up inheritance tax and do something to remove trusts as avoiding inheritance tax. Morally i don't have a higher limit for inheritance tax and that should include in full primary residence. I expect not a penny from my parents and feel its right that that i should not expect to pass a penny on tax free.

Easy to say when you have chosen not to have children and have no one to leave a legacy to.

But again, I find myself agreeing that too many people have a retirement plan that includes inheritance and I have always advised never to use that as a strategy and aim to provide for yourself.

Then for me its UBI possibly set at a low level possibly about state pension age then ditch all other benefits including state pension. Then if you want more you work and earn more.

Well, I have always maintained that the basic requirement should be roof over your head, food and warmth. Any benefit system that allows for luxuries is flawed.

I have always been a strong advocate for a voucher system that ensures just the living basics. I know of too may people that receive "help" that fritter it away on drugs, cigarettes and drink. One person is too many.

But implementation of any such systems would be frowned upon as taking away basic human rights and dignity. However, if you are getting what you need, I fail to see why it should matter how you receive help.

I would stop pensioners from avoiding NI on pension withdrawals by abolishing NI and moving it into income tax.

This is something that we are moving toward in the longer term, I think.

But again, I can't see why there shouldn't be NI or the like (NHS levy) on personal pension income.

I would remove all employer taxes on employment. So no employers NI.

How do you fund that £100 billion black hole that you have created?

Oh and remove the personal allowance.

Just not workable.

I would rather see personal allowances increased for lower earners to help stimulate spending in the economy and withdraw it sooner than just for those who earn in excess of £100k.

Other suggestions from me :-

Increase stamp tax on share transactions to 1% or 2% (£4 - £8 billion)

Follow through with the 5p on fuel duty (yes, I know we pay enough) but you can drive a matter of a few miles and see huge price differentials and people still queing at the pump. Coincide the rise with hopefully an end to these wars and the impact is absorbed/softened (£2 billion)

Hugely restrict or even abolish HR tax relief on pension contributions. Flat 20% for all (£5 billion)

Really random thought - charge a monthly levy of £1 p/m for all users of social media platforms. Would raise absolutely millions per month.

Phase in the PPM charge on electric cars say 3ppm to 5ppm (£1 rising to potentially £8 billion)

Increase the rate of VAT on purchase above a certain value/luxury goods and decrease it on lower value items - aim to target a net zero revenue adjustment, but instead just try to help stimulate spending in the economy.

 

[Essexyellows]

Raising the personal tax allowance would stimulate growth and impact the lower paid workers proportionately more than "the middle", back of fag packet maths....................

37.5 hours at MW is roughly £25k a year.

They get taxed on 50% of that.

Raise the PTA to £20k for basic rate taxpayers only, they would have more left in their pocket.

Rough cost is £35/40 billion.

Fund it by equalising CGT with income tax (£10-£20 billion) and reform pension tax relief (£10-£20 billion)

Job done - low earners better off, more money being spent etc etc...

 

[Village-Yellow]

Raising the personal tax allowance would stimulate growth and impact the lower paid workers proportionately more than "the middle", back of fag packet maths....................

37.5 hours at MW is roughly £25k a year.

They get taxed on 50% of that.

Raise the PTA to £20k for basic rate taxpayers only, they would have more left in their pocket.

Rough cost is £35/40 billion.

Fund it by equalising CGT with income tax (£10-£20 billion) and reform pension tax relief (£10-£20 billion)

Job done - low earners better off, more money being spent etc etc...

Yes, this would be another on my list, which I omitted.

 

[QR]

I didnt say they shouldn't get married I chose not to to protect my assets two equal parters earning equally probably could get married. There are pros and cons to each not least inheritance tax issues. Likewise kids they are a choice you there is a strong link between parenting and child outcome the state should be encouraging the people likely to produce good offspring to have children and discouraging the others.

We need to reindustrialise Britain we need less mobile hair salons and nail bars and low paid service sector economy. We need more manufacturing and export jobs for people to do we need engineers and manufacturers. The post 80's deindustrialisation has been an abject failure leading us into the welfare Britain we are today.

Personally to ensure there is some element of safety net i would work on the primary focus of meritorcracy and reward work and treat harshly unearned income.

I would wack up inheritance tax and do something to remove trusts as avoiding inheritance tax. Morally i dont have a higher limit for inheritance tax and that should include in full primary residence. I expect not a penny from my parents and feel its right that that i should not expect to pass a penny on tax free.

Then for me its UBI possibly set at a low level possibly about state pension age then ditch all other benefits including state pension. Then if you want more you work and earn more. I would stop pensioners from avoiding NI on pension withdrawals by abolishing NI and moving it into income tax. I would remove all employer taxes on employment. So no employers NI. Oh and remove the personal allowance.

Replace council tax/stamp duty with a land value tax.

See that's not some neoliberal right wing agenda.

Move to The Republic of Gilead. You'd be happier all round.