National Politics 🔴 The Labour Party

[RgYellows]

This is far easier than actually engaging with the analysis, isn’t it? And it’s only got a track record of never working and making us worse off than before, so what’s not to love.

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

Remember folks

Very clever people with clever degrees, with clever sounding accents, writing for clever newspapers, told you that Brexit would be good for the economy.

 

[Londox]

Its the old "who do they support in cricket" rubbish!

We've got 250,000 ex pats living in Spain. Do you expect them to fight for their new country?

How about the 1m in Australia? Or the 1.5m in Canada and The USA? Are these all expected to go to war for their adopted countries?

Scorchers even you know you're making a false equivalence there.

British nationals make up at most 2% of the population in Spain and I bet close to 100% of them travelled there legally.

I would be less concerned if we were having huge immigration from Australia or Canada. I do not foresee a culture clash with them on the level of Somalians or Syrians.

 

[Scotchegg]

Scorchers even you know you're making a false equivalence there.

British nationals make up at most 2% of the population in Spain and I bet close to 100% of them travelled there legally.

I would be less concerned if we were having huge immigration from Australia or Canada. I do not foresee a culture clash with them on the level of Somalians or Syrians.

Its not a false equivalent, its an example of double standards.

Its often said that those coming here wouldn't fight for this country, but no one puts those expectations on any ex-pats.

People keep saying that anyone coming to this country must respect our culture (not that anyone can explain what our culture is!) and should integrate, but again, no one expects that of brits abroad.

And as for legal migration, in the last 4 years, total migration has been around 4m. In the same period, around 160,000 arrived by boats. So 96% of all arrivals were perfectly legal by every measure available.

And of the 160,000 many would have had their asylum claims approved (making them also legal) or would have been removed. So the actually number of those here legally is much closer to the 100% that youve guessed for Spain.

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

This is far easier than actually engaging with the analysis, isn’t it? And it’s only got a track record of never working and making us worse off than before, so what’s not to love.

Just wondering if the "impartial" news provider GBNews have got confused here and are looking at the UK birth rate

For 2023, there were 591072 births in the UK
multiply that by 4years = 2,364,288, which as a % of the official population of 68.35 million (2023 figures), gives you 3.459%
Allow a bit of journalistic licence to round up and . . . .Bob's yer uncle . . . 4% "new arrivals"
And to think, our birth rate is lamentably low compared to the 1950's and 1960's


But I jest (I think). Let's give "GBNews" the benefit of the doubt and assume they are looking at the right kind of new arrivals. Have they said anywhere how many of those are legal as opposed to what some might refer to as illegal? Is that a net migration figure? Have they done any analysis into how long on average those people who have arrived in the last 4 years actually stay?

I'm guessing not, because it wouldn't have the dog-whistle impact they were going for

 

[West Oxon U’s]

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

So handing back an island that the international court has told you to do and renting back some of the island where you have a military base seems reasonable. Not sure what the real argument is with this.

 

[Scotchegg]

So handing back an island that the international court has told you to do and renting back some of the island where you have a military base seems reasonable. Not sure what the real argument is with this.

There are no arguments. The entire opposition is made of soundbites and faux anger.

Thats not to say that Labour are getting everything right, far from it. But the opposition from all sides is pathetic.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

 

[Scotchegg]

Thats taken entirely out of context. The point he was making, and admitted to the wording being in jest, was that the UK has a proud history of upholding the rule of law, even if it goes against what they want.

The International Courts found that we have no right to occupy land of another sovereign nation, and it must be returned. However, a deal was struck to maintain a crucial military base here and we are paying to maintain this.

I'm not sure what the alternative is?

Go against International law and weaken our position when objecting to Russia in Ukraine etc?

Or give up access to a military base on the Island?

 

[QR]

We haven't discussed housing on here recently but I've just watched the most fascinating hour of discussion on the topic (see below). If you're interesting in this area of politics it's time well invested.

This may be a futile plea but it would be great if any comments, either for it against etc, could avoid the usual trap of criticising the contributors and not the contents as it is a bit middle classy!

My observation is that it seems that unless the government get behind some of the numerous groups/alternative approaches who want to build and oil the wheels for them in the way the do the big house builders nothings going to change.

Happy viewing.

 

[BrockBuster]

Does this mean America are going to give Hawaii back to the Hawaiian's given they had no legal 'ownership' in the first place? World is full of prick nations taking what they want - we did it for hundreds of years.

At least now we're trying to put right what we once did wrong. (Albeit only when forced by the courts).

 

[Londox]

Does this mean America are going to give Hawaii back to the Hawaiian's given they had no legal 'ownership' in the first place? World is full of prick nations taking what they want - we did it for hundreds of years.

At least now we're trying to put right what we once did wrong. (Albeit only when forced by the courts).

Almost every single more technologically advanced civilisation throughout history took land from other people.
How far do we go back? Can we demand reparations from Italy for the Roman occupation?
It's not that they were "prick nations" they were simply operating at a time before modern day values had been established.
I can assure you basically every single society in human history would have stolen land if more powerful than their neighbouring societies.
We not live in vastly different times where concepts like social Darwinism have thankfully been consigned to history.

 

[stokeu]

It's not that they were "prick nations" they were simply operating at a time before modern day values had been established.

Modern day values as displayed by Russia in Ukraine, China in the South China Sea, Israel in the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon and East Jerusalem, Myanmar, Yemen, DRC, Sudan, Maghreb, Kashmir? Those ones??

 

[Londox]

Modern day values as displayed by Russia in Ukraine, China in the South China Sea, Israel in the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon and East Jerusalem, Myanmar, Yemen, DRC, Sudan, Maghreb, Kashmir? Those ones??

My point is just that societies have always invaded other societies throughout the entirety of human history. Almost every single country could look back at a time they were conquered by another. When would reparations ever end?
Could the UK look into reparations for the Norman Conquest or the Roman Invasion, or seek damages from Germany for WW2? In 1953 an agreement cancelled 50% of Germany's debt which helped propel them into a successful economy. Rationing didn't end here until 1954.
The Chagos Islands deal is a ludicrous one.

Your point about modern conflicts rather shows what I say is true. Conquering other civilisations is no longer seen as the norm which is why Russia and China are condemned internationally for their behaviour.

 

[stokeu]

Condemned internationally, maybe. But it doesn’t stop them, so I fail to understand what “modern day values” you reference, especially as my list isn’t near to exhaustive and would suggest this “behaviour” maybe is the norm….

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

Should we be giving a hard time to Russia for invading Ukraine, Israel invading Gaza etc and then ignore international law?

The UK was taken to court and it lost.

It really is that simple. We lost a ruling and negotiated to keep our military there under agreement to stop further court action.

You may think that the amount we’re paying is too high ( or too low ? ) but the ruling and the compensation are our legal obligation.

 

[Scotchegg]

The Chagos Islands deal is a ludicrous one.

What is ludicrous about this deal?

 

[Londox]

What is ludicrous about this deal?

Not only does it make us look weak on the international stage to dangerous aggressors like China. It will also cost the taxpayer billions.

There absolutely must have been a better solution.

 

[Scotchegg]

Not only does it make us look weak on the international stage to dangerous aggressors like China. It will also cost the taxpayer billions.

There absolutely must have been a better solution.

What is this better solution?

The deal isn't costing billions. We're paying to maintain a vital military base on the Island, or would you prefer that we just gave that up to save money?

And how does this make us look weak? Abiding by International Law with the full support of America and all of our key allies?

Let's be honest, this is nothing more than a cheap politically motivated stunt by the opposition parties to create this fake outrage over something that no one cared about a couple of months ago.

Its FoSB claiming that the Triangle is an eco-haven and valuable part of the local community being played out on an International stage.

And people are falling for it!

 

[QR]

Not only does it make us look weak on the international stage to dangerous aggressors like China. It will also cost the taxpayer billions.

There absolutely must have been a better solution.

There is. Don't 'acquire' land that isn't yours in the first place!

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

What is this better solution?

The deal isn't costing billions. We're paying to maintain a vital military base on the Island, or would you prefer that we just gave that up to save money?

And how does this make us look weak? Abiding by International Law with the full support of America and all of our key allies?

Let's be honest, this is nothing more than a cheap politically motivated stunt by the opposition parties to create this fake outrage over something that no one cared about a couple of months ago.

Its FoSB claiming that the Triangle is an eco-haven and valuable part of the local community being played out on an International stage.

And people are falling for it!

£3.4 billion over 99 years
0.2% of the UKs defence budget.
Over that time period, it really is in the realms of a treasury rounding error.

In any case, it doesn't matter what the faux outraged opposition think . . all that matters is that Trump and Rubio like it . . . END OF STORY . . .right?

 

[OUFCwaffle]

Do 1-4 year old children born in the UK count in those statistics?

 

[West Oxon U’s]

Sir Keir Starmer skewered by the BBC and the Guardian.

 

[Londox]

Sir Keir Starmer skewered by the BBC and the Guardian.

Lammy would be far far more of a disaster than Starmer.
Starmer is obviously intelligent but just out of touch and a textbook rigid politician who has no personality or ideas of his own.
Lammy is genuinely unintelligent. Rayner not much better.

 

[Londox]

There is. Don't 'acquire' land that isn't yours in the first place!

So the land belongs to the natives?

So we can demand all the middle east owned skyscrapers in London return to us?

It's weird how some on the left make the argument land belongs to the natives when it comes to Gaza, but when it comes to Europe it's about a borderless world and multiculturalism.

It's not the exact same thing no but it has always struck me there's a logic gap there.

Some people on here play the same game when they equate British immigration to Spain to mass immigration into the UK

 

[QR]

So the land belongs to the natives?

So we can demand all the middle east owned skyscrapers in London return to us?

It's weird how some on the left make the argument land belongs to the natives when it comes to Gaza, but when it comes to Europe it's about a borderless world and multiculturalism.

It's not the exact same thing no but it has always struck me there's a logic gap there.

Some people on here play the same game when they equate British immigration to Spain to mass immigration into the UK

What a bizarre 'equivalent'. There is a difference between taking something and buying something.

 

[Matty Greens Left Boot]

There is. Don't 'acquire' land that isn't yours in the first place!

The land didn't belong to Mauritius either it was uninhabited. Plus land has always been acquired by force has been for millennia and will be for the rest of time.

 

[Matty Greens Left Boot]

Should we be giving a hard time to Russia for invading Ukraine, Israel invading Gaza etc and then ignore international law?

The UK was taken to court and it lost.

It really is that simple. We lost a ruling and negotiated to keep our military there under agreement to stop further court action.

You may think that the amount we’re paying is too high ( or too low ? ) but the ruling and the compensation are our legal obligation.

Hows that going though. Are China and Russia about to start playing by international law just because we start self flagellating? I bet they aren't going to fall in line with international law over south china sea navigation and Ukraine. Countries only respond to cold hard force except the wet ones like ourselves. Just once i want a government of the UK to do what's right for us and only us. I want a selfish government that puts British interest first.

 

[QR]

The land didn't belong to Mauritius either it was uninhabited.

The bottom line is we are complying with the International Court of Justice because, irrespective who you or I might think had the strongest claim to the Islands, one thing's for sure, it ain't the UK.

Plus land has always been acquired by force has been for millennia and will be for the rest of time.

Didn't your mum ever tell you 'two wrongs don't make a right'?