National Politics 🔴 The Labour Party

[Sharp Edges]

That just isn't true. UK Governments seemed to only use the rules for limited numbers/reasons and deliberately chose not to use the rules as they could. I may be remembering incorrectly (don't think so though) but other EU Govts were far more active in using the rules and deported far more.

EU nationals had a higher threshold compared to non EU nationals but we could deport EU citizens as explained by this AI summary (sources include migration observatory and documents on Gov.uk and another 4):

Yes, the UK government could have deported EU citizens prior to Brexit, but the grounds for doing so were stricter than for deporting non-EU nationals. EU citizens could be removed for not exercising their treaty rights (e.g., if they weren't a worker, self-employed, self-sufficient, or a student) or on public policy grounds, such as due to a criminal conviction or for national security reasons.

Reasons for Deportation:

• Failure to Exercise Treaty Rights:
  EU citizens could be removed if they were not actively exercising their rights as outlined in the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU). This meant they couldn't be considered a "resident" if they weren't a worker, self-employed person, self-sufficient, or a student.
  
  
• Public Policy Grounds:
  EU citizens could be deported on grounds of public policy, public security, or public health. This could include criminal convictions, especially if the offence was serious or persistent, or if there were concerns about national security.
  
  
• Illegal Entry:
  EU citizens could be removed if they entered the UK illegally, such as through fraud, false documentation, or by circumventing border controls.

Important Considerations:

• Higher Threshold for EU Nationals:
  The threshold for demonstrating that deportation of an EU national was in the interest of the public good, public health, or public security was generally higher than for non-EU nationals.
  
  
• Length of Residence:
  The length and permanence of an EU citizen's residence in the UK also played a role in the deportation process. The longer a person had been living in the UK, the higher the threshold for deportation.
  
  
• Criminal Offences:
  EU citizens could still be deported if they were convicted of a criminal offence, even if they had settled status or pre-settled status.

Your post is interesting but nowhere does it show that there was any control over who came into the country under freedom of movement so what I said is absolutely true.

The fact that whoever was in power chose not to deport people who chose not to work or broke the law just emphasises my point that politicians appear to be happy to let people into the country with little or no consideration to whether they are needed or not, whether they are of benefit or not and whether they can behave or not and do little about it when they are here.

Question: Do you know what the legal process would have been to deport someone from the EU that wasnt working? Or the cost involved?

 

[Scotchegg]

Your post is interesting but nowhere does it show that there was any control over who came into the country under freedom of movement so what I said is absolutely true.

The fact that whoever was in power chose not to deport people who chose not to work or broke the law just emphasises my point that politicians appear to be happy to let people into the country with little or no consideration to whether they are needed or not, whether they are of benefit or not and whether they can behave or not and do little about it when they are here.

Question: Do you know what the legal process would have been to deport someone from the EU that wasnt working? Or the cost involved?

We've been deporting foreign national offenders for years and anyone sentenced to 12 months or more are automatically subject to deportation. There are some countries that are deemed unsafe for people to return through International Law (nothing to do with the EU) and separate arrangements are in place for these, including tagging where appropriate.

As for those who have overstayed their Visa, or are no longer in accordance with that (no working, studying) the deportation process is again pretty straight forward and is applied to thousands of people every year - including those from the EU.

There isn't a 100% success rate and people clearly do fall into the black economy or go "off grid" but that's not to say that the systems aren't in place to remove them once discovered.

 

[Marked Ox]

Your post is interesting but nowhere does it show that there was any control over who came into the country under freedom of movement so what I said is absolutely true.

The fact that whoever was in power chose not to deport people who chose not to work or broke the law just emphasises my point that politicians appear to be happy to let people into the country with little or no consideration to whether they are needed or not, whether they are of benefit or not and whether they can behave or not and do little about it when they are here.

Question: Do you know what the legal process would have been to deport someone from the EU that wasnt working? Or the cost involved?

There is a level of control as EU nationals could have been sent back, our Govts (Labour & Tory) decided not to utilise that capability.

I'd suggest the legal process would be the same as it was for non EU but with the higher legal thresholds as mentioned previously.

 

[Essexyellows]

So what do we make of these "mysterious fires" with one common denominator?

Source: BBC.

Emergency services responded to a fire in the early hours of 12 May at the Kentish Town home where Sir Keir lived before he became prime minister and moved into 10 Downing Street.

Damage was caused to the entrance of the property, which it is understood Sir Keir still owns and rents out, but nobody was hurt.

Four days earlier, on 8 May, a car Sir Keir had sold to a neighbour in 2024 caught fire on the same street.

The third fire took place on 11 May at the front door of a house converted into flats in Islington. The prime minister had previously lived there.

3 arrested..... aged 34, 26 and 21.

Only one named..... Mr Lavrynovych, a Ukrainian national, is a builder and roofer..... who also offers himself as a model for £20 an hour.......

 

[Scotchegg]

Christ!

 

[Mojofilter]

That's very cheap model work, no wonder he was in such a tizzy.

Hard to draw conclusions from what we know: there could be some grand exciting narrative behind it or it could just be an upset nutter who likes setting fires. Probably best to resist the urge to dip into the wild conspiracy areas of the mind until we have anything like some credible facts.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

 

[Essexyellows]

Christ!

Terribly sorry, he can`t help you. Imaginary person in a book you see.

So what is factually incorrect in the BBC report and what do you make of it (the question posed)?

If it's too difficult for you then just play the man in your usual holier than thou condescending manner.

 

[Scotchegg]

Terribly sorry, he can`t help you. Imaginary person in a book you see.

So what is factually incorrect in the BBC report and what do you make of it (the question posed)?

If it's too difficult for you then just play the man in your usual holier than thou condescending manner.

Do you ever realise the irony of complaining about "playing the man" whilst personalising every post towards me in such a weirdly obsessive manner?

 

[Mojofilter]

Do you ever realise the irony of complaining about "playing the man" whilst personalising every post towards me in such a weirdly obsessive manner?

I do wish you two would just f**k and get it over with

 

[Scotchegg]

I do wish you two would just f**k and get it over with

Please tell me there's another way?!

 

[Mojofilter]

Please tell me there's another way?!

Well I suppose hand stuff is fine but you've gotta make eye contact

 

[Carpy]

Well I suppose hand stuff is fine but you've gotta make eye contact

The cuck chair will be set up for you.

 

[Marked Ox]

The cuck chair will be set up for you.

This chair:

Love chair - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Mojofilter]

The cuck chair will be set up for you.

I'll fetch a drum to help them both keep time

 

[Essexyellows]

He would think he`s at work.................

 

[Essexyellows]

Do you ever realise the irony of complaining about "playing the man" whilst personalising every post towards me in such a weirdly obsessive manner?

And your complete avoidance of a direct question.......... what was wrong about the BBC article and the common denominator?

It may seem a little odd/peculiar/suspicious to some folk......... still there we are.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

 

[Peterdev]

And in a leaked document the government won’t commment on…Angela Rayner wants to tax savings more. That’s a nice incentive to those that work hard. Maybe she will be the next chancellor

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

Would you like to give some context to the sensationalised puff piece in the Torygraph?

After all, it is a news outlet that gets particularly triggered (and triggers its readership accordingly) by pretty much anything Angela does.

I mean...I know there have been questions over her property and living arrangements in the past, but maybe she now needs to discuss with the Parliamentary Standards Committee the fact that she is now living apparently rent free inside the Torygraph editors head

 

[Peterdev]

Starmer didn’t deny it on PMQs today. Didn’t stop Rayner smiling away either

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

Starmer didn’t deny it on PMQs today. Didn’t stop Rayner smiling away either

And when was the memo sent to Treasury?
And what was the context of it's content?
And what was the outcome?

I mean, we can get all hot under the collar about ideas that are stuff that ultimately doesn't happen, but I for one am quite pleased that the current government is obviously openly discussing such measures. I would venture that it is a healthy part of the way that a normal government and normal cabinet should be actively engaged in these issues before reaching consensus.

 

[Essexyellows]

And when was the memo sent to Treasury?
And what was the context of it's content?
And what was the outcome?

I mean, we can get all hot under the collar about ideas that are stuff that ultimately doesn't happen, but I for one am quite pleased that the current government is obviously openly discussing such measures. I would venture that it is a healthy part of the way that a normal government and normal cabinet should be actively engaged in these issues before reaching consensus.

I`m not sure there was much consensus around the WFP............. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cr4zz1d6y75t

As for the memo the reading is not pretty for a lot of people and it says much about the state of politics.............

"It also called for the lifetime pensions allowance to be reinstated, which puts a cap on how much savers could put into their pension before higher tax is applied.
This allowance was scrapped under the Conservative government and while Labour had made plans to reinstate it before last year's general election, they reversed the decision before publishing the party's manifesto."

So we might get a u turn on u turn that was a u turn.

And people, who have planned for their retirement based on there being no lifetime limit, are now left wondering if they`ll get nailed for higher rate tax.

Maybe they`ll find an arbitrary cut off age............. thats worked well in the past.

Nice to see inflation remaining stable though.......... oh....... up to 3.5% and that`s before all the NI kicks in... still there is "more money in your pocket" so they keep telling us.

 

[QR]

"It also called for the lifetime pensions allowance to be reinstated, which puts a cap on how much savers could put into their pension before higher tax is applied.
This allowance was scrapped under the Conservative government and while Labour had made plans to reinstate it before last year's general election, they reversed the decision before publishing the party's manifesto."

If that the same 'life time allowance' the a Tories substantially reduced in 2014 and then decided to abolish.....checks notes....just before the 2024 election. We see you.

#fiscalblackhole

 

[Matty Greens Left Boot]

If that the same 'life time allowance' the a Tories substantially reduced in 2014 and then decided to abolish.....checks notes....just before the 2024 election. We see you.

#fiscalblackhole

Yes but it is financially illiterate to have a lifetime allowance. But like the winter fuel allowance announcement today shows labour doesn't like people who look after themselves and you know actually take financial responsibility and fund their own lives.

 

[JOHN BOY]

Please tell me there's another way?!

Hopefully.

 

[Essexyellows]

If that the same 'life time allowance' the a Tories substantially reduced in 2014 and then decided to abolish.....checks notes....just before the 2024 election. We see you.

#fiscalblackhole

You quoted my post that literally said........................"This allowance was scrapped under the Conservative government".

As already pointed out, if you make financial plans so as to not be a burden on the state, then this Government will come for you to give it away to others.

Fancy having people, who can afford to do so, moving out of queues in things like the NHS so those who can`t afford it can access treatment.

Fancy having people who can afford to do so planning for a pleasant retirement.

Fancy having a socialist government who invariably run out of other peoples money............ #change.

Anyway - toodle pip, we are off on the "Adventure before Dementia" on Friday. 6 weeks of tranquility.

 

[QR]

You quoted my post that literally said........................"This allowance was scrapped under the Conservative government".

As already pointed out, if you make financial plans so as to not be a burden on the state, then this Government will come for you to give it away to others.

Fancy having people, who can afford to do so, moving out of queues in things like the NHS so those who can`t afford it can access treatment.

Fancy having people who can afford to do so planning for a pleasant retirement.

Fancy having a socialist government who invariably run out of other peoples money............ #change.

Anyway - toodle pip, we are off on the "Adventure before Dementia" on Friday. 6 weeks of tranquility.

You'll see I made no comments on the merit of taxing the value of pension pots but you have assumed you know what I think.

As it happens I think there should be no tax on the the pot. It's wrong to sell the tax free benefits of saving for your retirement for decades only to change the rules just before people retire. However there should overall limits on what you can invest tax free in the first place.

 

[bazzer9461]

Just seeing the news for the first time today and wasn’t it great to see Starmer squirm over the massive U turn of Reeves announcement last year regarding the WFA

 

[Peterdev]

Just seeing the news for the first time today and wasn’t it great to see Starmer squirm over the massive U turn of Reeves announcement last year regarding the WFA

Don’t build your hopes up too much. There’s nothing in the statement that suggests what will happen in the budget statement later this year. I can’t see any reason why the payment shouldn’t be made across the board as pensioners have worked all their lives and contributed to the pot. We are amongst the most poorly paid pensioners in Europe and should expect better.
However, I feel that many will be disappointed. Clearly he’s not going to backdate the amount but I’d be surprised if doesn’t earmark more for those on benefits…like pension credit.
What should really happen is for the tax threshold to rise. This would take many low paid people and pensioners out of the tax payers category. Pensioners are now increasingly finding that their private pensions are being taxed. The Tories and Labour share the blame for freezing the tax thresholds until 2028.
Starmer can’t win on this. He will either bow to pressure from his own party to reinstate WFP or stand firm and lose votes elsewhere.