National Politics 🔴 The Labour Party

[Londox]

Look I don’t disagree that politics hasn’t become a joke (leader of the free world thinking it’s funny to AI himself as the pope ) but we’ve seen where nationalism goes and it’s frightening.

It’s not a joke to be in power and tough decisions on the budget have to be made, we are currently financially screwed where one of the biggest outputs from government spending is servicing debt.

We keep being told by the press that immigration is the biggest issue because that’s the one matrix that is almost impossible to resolve, and Farage knows it.

He isn’t anti immigration ( his wife isn’t British) he just sees it as the vehicle to get himself elected.

Why are you more worried about nationalism than religious extremism?

You say nationalism is frightening, how many UK terrorist attacks have been done by nationalists compared to religious extremists.

There is also other forms of nationalism in the UK the left largely ignores. There's been clashes in the UK between Indians and Pakistanis both fuelled with nationalistic tendencies.

People don't want to have difficult conversations about the effect of unprecedented mass migration in the UK. Our biggest cities (Manchester, London, Birmingham) are all under 50% white British and that number will only get smaller year after year. If you told a left-wing person in the 80s that would be the case they'd have called you a mad conspiracy theorist yet here we are.

The change and how you manage a rapid change of new cultures some of which will clash isn't a conversation British politicians seem willing to have, at least not ones from the uniparty.

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

I didn’t say either was worse.

It’s a shitty world when you’re arguing if a nationalist uprising or religious extremism is worse.

I can’t see how a few thousand people a year crossing the channel has increased the immigration in the Uk to the levels that you are talking about and “stopping the boats” or even “smashing the Gangs” are bullshit slogans to keep everyone’s attention there.

There are big issues facing us and I don’t see how asylum seekers crossing the channel in dinghy’s is one of them.

 

[Royalstandard74]

I didn’t say either was worse.

It’s a shitty world when you’re arguing if a nationalist uprising or religious extremism is worse.

I can’t see how a few thousand people a year crossing the channel has increased the immigration in the Uk to the levels that you are talking about and “stopping the boats” or even “smashing the Gangs” are bullshit slogans to keep everyone’s attention there.

There are big issues facing us and I don’t see how asylum seekers crossing the channel in dinghy’s is one of them.

Good for you that you're housing them, which you are, aren't you?

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

Good for you that you're housing them, which you are, aren't you?

Nope I’m not.

Immigration in the Uk is people arriving by plane and boats with passports all of their documents in place and staying.

Thousands and thousands of people do that.

The issues people have around immigration has very little to do with people crossing the channel in dinghys.


The second issue is people wanting services but not prepared to do the work for the money.

If you order Uber eats or just eat who delivers it?
care homes, fruit picking, factory production lines.

I know of a lot of business where they employ foreign workers because the white British don’t want to do the work.

If you want to be annoyed, be angry Nigel and his Brexit. We stopped a European workforce ready and able.

 

[holdsteady]

Nope I’m not.

Immigration in the Uk is people arriving by plane and boats with passports all of their documents in place and staying.

Thousands and thousands of people do that.

The issues people have around immigration has very little to do with people crossing the channel in dinghys.


The second issue is people wanting services but not prepared to do the work for the money.

If you order Uber eats or just eat who delivers it?
care homes, fruit picking, factory production lines.

I know of a lot of business where they employ foreign workers because the white British don’t want to do the work.

If you want to be annoyed, be angry Nigel and his Brexit. We stopped a European workforce ready and able.

White people had per capita the lowest unemployment rate in the UK for 2024 at 3.3%, so saying it’s white British people who don’t want to do jobs doesn’t really make sense, as those from ethnic backgrounds had an unemployment rate of 8%, with people of Pakistani origin coming in at 11.1%.

But we are getting Uber eats delivery drivers so that’s a win.

 

[Essexyellows]

Immigration is a very simple fix.

Australia do it very well - let in who you want, legally.

The rest - detain, process then grant a visa, deport or grant refugee status in a third country...........

So to deal with the "small number of illegal arrivals" we should also detain, process then grant a visa/asylum, deport or grant refugee status in a third country............

For legal migration let in who you want.

When the state are implementing Section 27 (arrest without warrant) something is going wrong somewhere....

Police given more time to question Iranian men over alleged terror plot

The men are being held over an alleged plan to target "a specific premises", the Metropolitan Police says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Royalstandard74]

Nope I’m not.

Immigration in the Uk is people arriving by plane and boats with passports all of their documents in place and staying.

Thousands and thousands of people do that.

The issues people have around immigration has very little to do with people crossing the channel in dinghys.


The second issue is people wanting services but not prepared to do the work for the money.

If you order Uber eats or just eat who delivers it?
care homes, fruit picking, factory production lines.

I know of a lot of business where they employ foreign workers because the white British don’t want to do the work.

If you want to be annoyed, be angry Nigel and his Brexit. We stopped a European workforce ready and able.

Where do you think these uber deliverers live? and do you think they are earning enough to pay rent and tax, they are not, they are living rent free in shared accommodation, free heating and free electricity to charge their electric bikes. Maybe that's why the "white British' workers can't afford to do certain jobs.

 

[Essexyellows]

Where do you think these uber deliverers live? and do you think they are earning enough to pay rent and tax, they are not, they are living rent free in shared accommodation, free heating and free electricity to charge their electric bikes. Maybe that's why the "white British' workers can't afford to do certain jobs.

Locally there is a thriving trade in selling the lucrative rounds, mostly in the Ethiopian coffee shops.
One person owns the round or route and sub lets it to others who may not have the correct status/paperwork.
Also the same with Uber and any other "third party service" where the Brand Name doesn`t check who is actually doing the job.
The app might say its Mustapha driving the cab but its very likely it isn`t.

 

[Londox]

Immigration is a very simple fix.

Australia do it very well - let in who you want, legally.

The rest - detain, process then grant a visa, deport or grant refugee status in a third country...........

So to deal with the "small number of illegal arrivals" we should also detain, process then grant a visa/asylum, deport or grant refugee status in a third country............

For legal migration let in who you want.

When the state are implementing Section 27 (arrest without warrant) something is going wrong somewhere....

Police given more time to question Iranian men over alleged terror plot

The men are being held over an alleged plan to target "a specific premises", the Metropolitan Police says.

www.bbc.co.uk

I disagree immigration is a simple fix.

There is no political desire to lower immigration, but even if there was, it's no easy solution.

We have seen whilst being part of the ECHR it is seemingly impossible to deport people even with criminal records. There is no shortage of politically-fuelled immigration lawyers willing to take cases on.

Even if not a single new person came here, the country has gone through such a huge change in such a small amount of time that the changes that have come with mass migration are irreversible. It's more about how you manage a population full of different religions and cultures living alongside each other which will sometimes inevitably clash.

One of the local councilors elected in Burnley openly say they want to end "free mixing" between men and women. Even if we get a grip on immigration (which we won't) these problems aren't going away.

It should be simple, but it isn't. And any changes that should be (but won't be) made are coming 30 years too late.

 

[chuckbert]

I disagree immigration is a simple fix.

There is no political desire to lower immigration, but even if there was, it's no easy solution.

We have seen whilst being part of the ECHR it is seemingly impossible to deport people even with criminal records. There is no shortage of politically-fuelled immigration lawyers willing to take cases on.

Even if not a single new person came here, the country has gone through such a huge change in such a small amount of time that the changes that have come with mass migration are irreversible. It's more about how you manage a population full of different religions and cultures living alongside each other which will sometimes inevitably clash.

One of the local councilors elected in Burnley openly say they want to end "free mixing" between men and women. Even if we get a grip on immigration (which we won't) these problems aren't going away.

It should be simple, but it isn't. And any changes that should be (but won't be) made are coming 30 years too late.

“There’s a big aspect of free mixing,” she said. “Muslim women aren’t really comfortable with being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms, where Muslim women don't have to sacrifice their health.”

I think women-only gyms already exist don't they?

 

[Londox]

“There’s a big aspect of free mixing,” she said. “Muslim women aren’t really comfortable with being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms, where Muslim women don't have to sacrifice their health.”

I think women-only gyms already exist don't they?

Who is this person to speak behalf of all Muslim women? How do they know Muslim women aren't comfortable with mixing with Muslim men. If Burnley elected a councillor who said "white women aren't comfortable with being involved with white men", I'm pretty sure that would rightfully get a pretty big reaction.

Quite ironic how she would be considered a 'TERF' for those views by the radical left, although the radical left seem incapable of ever criticising Islam.

 

[chuckbert]

Who is this person to speak behalf of all Muslim women? How do they know Muslim women aren't comfortable with mixing with Muslim men. If Burnley elected a councillor who said "white women aren't comfortable with being involved with white men", I'm pretty sure that would rightfully get a pretty big reaction.

Quite ironic how she would be considered a 'TERF' for those views by the radical left, although the radical left seem incapable of ever criticising Islam.

That's a lot of outrage about something that you weren't complaining about before (which was the false implication that she was suggesting general segregation of men and women). I think you've just whatabout-ed yourself.

 

[holdsteady]

Wouldn’t all women prefer to be in a gym with a bear? Don’t know what the bear thinks about that?

But further up the thread we had someone take the mick out of “British culture” for separate bars for women and men, unless they live in a working man’s club in 1970s Barnsley that’s very outdated, as well as gay marriage being banned and homosexuality being outlawed.

Yet a culture being bought over which is much stricter on these sort of things we have moved on from is absolutely fine and anyone who has doubts about that is a bigot. That’s some logical leap.

Makes me see why women choose the bear.

 

[Londox]

That's a lot of outrage about something that you weren't complaining about before (which was the false implication that she was suggesting general segregation of men and women). I think you've just whatabout-ed yourself.

No outrage at all. I was just pointing out to Essex Yellows that controlling immigration now is far too late for it to prevent the issues that already exist in this country which are related to mass migration.

I find the alliance between the far-left and devout Islam highly amusing. It will tumble like a house of cards one day.

 

[holdsteady]

No outrage at all. I was just pointing out to Essex Yellows that controlling immigration now is far too late for it to prevent the issues that already exist in this country which are related to mass migration.

I find the alliance between the far-left and devout Islam highly amusing. It will tumble like a house of cards one day.

It didn’t work well in Iran for the left.

It’s strange as the two have Palestine in common then nothing. There will never be rainbow flags flying outside mosques.

I know some sound Muslim lads, individually get on fine, but they would p**s themselves laughing if I ever suggested that gay marriage would ever become an acceptable thing in mosques, their beliefs are to the right of your average reform voter by a distance.

 

[Londox]

It didn’t work well in Iran for the left.

It’s strange as the two have Palestine in common then nothing. There will never be rainbow flags flying outside mosques.

I know some sound Muslim lads, individually get on fine, but they would p**s themselves laughing if I ever suggested that gay marriage would ever become an acceptable thing in mosques, their beliefs are to the right of your average reform voter by a distance.

This is real, btw.

 

[Essexyellows]

Who is this person to speak behalf of all Muslim women? How do they know Muslim women aren't comfortable with mixing with Muslim men. If Burnley elected a councillor who said "white women aren't comfortable with being involved with white men", I'm pretty sure that would rightfully get a pretty big reaction.

Quite ironic how she would be considered a 'TERF' for those views by the radical left, although the radical left seem incapable of ever criticising Islam.

Its why we have women only gyms, women only religious services, women only education, women only swimming sessions......... so it goes on.

Its nothing to do with gender, its to do with religious ideology

“Men are in charge of women, as Allah has given one of them more than the other, and because men spend their wealth for the women”.

[Kanzul Eemaan 4:34]

That is not compatible with how we expect people to behave in the UK.

But someone will be along shortly to shout "racist"...........

 

[Londox]

Its why we have women only gyms, women only religious services, women only education, women only swimming sessions......... so it goes on.

Its nothing to do with gender, its to do with religious ideology

“Men are in charge of women, as Allah has given one of them more than the other, and because men spend their wealth for the women”.

[Kanzul Eemaan 4:34]

That is not compatible with how we expect people to behave in the UK.

But someone will be along shortly to shout "racist"...........

I've become less and less bothered by being called racist. It only happens on the internet by people who don't know you in real life.

You cannot be racist against Islam. There are followers of Islam from pretty much every single race of people.

It's impossible to be racist against a set of ideas. That's all Islam and all other religions are. A set of ideas written in books.

I think Denmark has quite interesting policies. They have this idea about not allowing "non-western" populations to be more than 30% of towns and cities (no idea how that can possible be enforced) and also banned Halal slaughter. But also shows respect to Islam by banning Quran burnings.

I'm personally more than happy to live in a multi-racial society as people's skin colour doesn't bother me or I believe the vast majority of British people.

Multi culturalism is more complicated. I want people to be able to celebrate the holidays and traditions of where they come from but also respecting British culture (cue being told there's no such thing)

I don't think clashes on the streets between different ethnic groups reflect well on integration and how multiculturalism is going.

 

[Essexyellows]

I've become less and less bothered by being called racist. It only happens on the internet by people who don't know you in real life.

You cannot be racist against Islam. There are followers of Islam from pretty much every single race of people.

It's impossible to be racist against a set of ideas. That's all Islam and all other religions are. A set of ideas written in books.

I think Denmark has quite interesting policies. They have this idea about not allowing "non-western" populations to be more than 30% of towns and cities (no idea how that can possible be enforced) and also banned Halal slaughter. But also shows respect to Islam by banning Quran burnings.

I'm personally more than happy to live in a multi-racial society as people's skin colour doesn't bother me or I believe the vast majority of British people.

Multi culturalism is more complicated. I want people to be able to celebrate the holidays and traditions of where they come from but also respecting British culture (cue being told there's no such thing)

I don't think clashes on the streets between different ethnic groups reflect well on integration and how multiculturalism is going.

Absolutely, I have no problem when the folk from two doors down turn up with food insisting you take it because it is one of their deity`s festivals. We have the largest Diwali festival outside of India, just last weekend the Sikh community celebrated Vaisakhi, all communities that integrate, add to British culture and "fit in".

The problems start when people choose to implement their own cultures/beliefs rather than adjusting them to fit the country they choose to be part of.

And Indian/Pakistani racism far outstrips anything involving white British.

 

[Londox]

Absolutely, I have no problem when the folk from two doors down turn up with food insisting you take it because it is one of their deity`s festivals. We have the largest Diwali festival outside of India, just last weekend the Sikh community celebrated Vaisakhi, all communities that integrate, add to British culture and "fit in".

The problems start when people choose to implement their own cultures/beliefs rather than adjusting them to fit the country they choose to be part of.

And Indian/Pakistani racism far outstrips anything involving white British.

Couldn't agree with you any more. I actually think a mix of different races and ethnicities is a net gain. I just don't necessarily think they should completely replace original populations.

I will always maintain, despite what many people say, that the UK is one of the most tolerant places in the whole world. Certainly in Europe. It's just that most rationally minded people know an absolutely unprecedented 30 years of mass migration of course carries consequences many of which are not positive.

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

Wouldn’t all women prefer to be in a gym with a bear? Don’t know what the bear thinks about that?

But further up the thread we had someone take the mick out of “British culture” for separate bars for women and men, unless they live in a working man’s club in 1970s Barnsley that’s very outdated, as well as gay marriage being banned and homosexuality being outlawed.

Yet a culture being bought over which is much stricter on these sort of things we have moved on from is absolutely fine and anyone who has doubts about that is a bigot. That’s some logical leap.

Makes me see why women choose the bear.

It was me and I was making a point about what is British culture. Some people seem to think that it has to be some antiquated ideal, and I was being glib.

Like Essex yellows I think having a Pakistani family next door giving me water from their Hajj, or popping round some food is amazing and culturally beneficial.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be controls on immigration, quite the opposite, I’m just saying that there are far far bigger things going on and that I’m concerned that the far right are moving in. I’d be just as petrified by the far left BTW.

Personally I think that the media are pushing the narrative of evil immigrants coming here, stealing, killing and raping our children for their own ends, and that something far more sinister is going on.

Keep an eye on how Nigel and his pals are funded and who he is cosying up to.

 

[Londox]

It was me and I was making a point about what is British culture. Some people seem to think that it has to be some antiquated ideal, and I was being glib.

Like Essex yellows I think having a Pakistani family next door giving me water from their Hajj, or popping round some food is amazing and culturally beneficial.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be controls on immigration, quite the opposite, I’m just saying that there are far far bigger things going on and that I’m concerned that the far right are moving in. I’d be just as petrified by the far left BTW.

Personally I think that the media are pushing the narrative of evil immigrants coming here, stealing, killing and raping our children for their own ends, and that something far more sinister is going on.

Keep an eye on how Nigel and his pals are funded and who he is cosying up to.

How would you control immigration if you were PM?

 

[holdsteady]

It was me and I was making a point about what is British culture. Some people seem to think that it has to be some antiquated ideal, and I was being glib.

Like Essex yellows I think having a Pakistani family next door giving me water from their Hajj, or popping round some food is amazing and culturally beneficial.

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be controls on immigration, quite the opposite, I’m just saying that there are far far bigger things going on and that I’m concerned that the far right are moving in. I’d be just as petrified by the far left BTW.

Personally I think that the media are pushing the narrative of evil immigrants coming here, stealing, killing and raping our children for their own ends, and that something far more sinister is going on.

Keep an eye on how Nigel and his pals are funded and who he is cosying up to.

The raping children line is a bit unfortunate, that was a genuine, horrible thing and if anything the media and the establishment in this country didn’t “push” it enough.

It’s nice that we get different foods, and in general people are just people, but I am not sure the trade offs with mass migration are in the plus side just because you get to eat something a bit different.

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

How would you control immigration if you were PM?

I wouldn’t have left the EU for starters but we have. I would look to get European youth available on an under 25 scheme to help with harvesting and un wanted work. I’d tighten up on education institutions and ensure they were more vigorous in their selection policies, and only allow spousal and children visas only for the duration of the study. I would speed up visa applications, and I would speed up asylum applications. I would allow those who are applying for asylum to work so that they don’t go underground. I would set up an application centre in Calais which would instantly stop the dinghy crossings ( those denied asylum could be sent straight back and those that are under consideration could enter legally and be tracked).

However we are facing far far bigger issues and whilst this is kept as the biggie the rest gets a very small look in.

Everything is about the rich getting richer, don’t be conned that immigration is the biggest issue of our time.

 

[Londox]

I wouldn’t have left the EU for starters but we have. I would look to get European youth available on an under 25 scheme to help with harvesting and un wanted work. I’d tighten up on education institutions and ensure they were more vigorous in their selection policies, and only allow spousal and children visas only for the duration of the study. I would speed up visa applications, and I would speed up asylum applications. I would allow those who are applying for asylum to work so that they don’t go underground. I would set up an application centre in Calais which would instantly stop the dinghy crossings ( those denied asylum could be sent straight back and those that are under consideration could enter legally and be tracked).

However we are facing far far bigger issues and whilst this is kept as the biggie the rest gets a very small look in.

Everything is about the rich getting richer, don’t be conned that immigration is the biggest issue of our time.

None of your proposed changes would limit immigration in my opinion.

Please also explain how a huge amount of cheap labour coming from abroad doesn't help make the rich richer?

 

[tonyw]

In case it has escaped everyone's attention, this has been Farage MO for his entire political career. He tells people their lives are s**t, he finds people to blame for why your life is s**t. He tells you only he has the solution to why your life is s**t...and people believe him.

Nigel's crowning glory to date was to deliver a Brexit victory. As we all know and have known found out at great cost,.that was the easy part. He was then able to simply run away and let everyone else try in vain to clear up the mess he'd created, whilst saying they were at fault for making a hash of it Clever Nigel!

Now he's back using the same tired old argument for why your life is still s**t (which he had a hand in making worse) and why he still has all the solutions to all your problems, while saturating all forms of media with his message to tam it home to you. It's a really basic form of populism and clever old Nigel has it down to a fine art.

I'm going to predict that Nigel won't solve one single problem...but he and his mates will get very rich while they take you along for the ride. Never forget, that for every minute you are being made to feel s**t about your lot in life and the "state of our country", Nigel and co are getting richer and richer.

Nige is Trump Mk. 2.0. Everything about his grift is the same.

Not sure why anyone from Britain would look over at the US and think "Yes, I want me some of that"......the utter governmental chaos, the ubiquitous legal battles, the mass civil service layoffs and cuts in funding, the upcoming tax cuts for the wealthy being paid for by reductions in welfare, the imminent recession......

.......but illegal immigration has dropped markedly, and the libs are angry so I guess that would be enough for some people?

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

None of your proposed changes would limit immigration in my opinion.

Please also explain how a huge amount of cheap labour coming from abroad doesn't help make the rich richer?

What would you do?

 

[Carpy]

I would set up an application centre in Calais which would instantly stop the dinghy crossings ( those denied asylum could be sent straight back and those that are under consideration could enter legally and be tracked).

No, it really wouldn't.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

What would you do?

He asked you a reasonable question and you deflected!

 

[holdsteady]

Nige is Trump Mk. 2.0. Everything about his grift is the same.

Not sure why anyone from Britain would look over at the US and think "Yes, I want me some of that"......the utter governmental chaos, the ubiquitous legal battles, the mass civil service layoffs and cuts in funding, the upcoming tax cuts for the wealthy being paid for by reductions in welfare, the imminent recession......

.......but illegal immigration has dropped markedly, and the libs are angry so I guess that would be enough for some people?

If you don’t agree with the levels of immigration into this country, and whether you think it matters or not that’s what the people voting reform thinks matters, not a lot of other realistic games in town. Labour started it and the Tory’s continued it, the Lib Dem’s and Greens are even more pro large scale immigration.

So unless either Labour or the tories can convince people they have the answer Farage will at the very least have a huge say in the next general election.