Potential New Ground

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That is a difficult comparison to make. Brighton were at the Withdean for years, which only had a capacity of ~8000 and averaged ~7,500 in League One - probably due to fluctuations with away fans so there weren't that many empty home seats before they moved. We are averaging ~7,400 in a 12,500 capacity ground.

We are averaging 7400 in a soulless wind tunnel that feels colder than north pole and the smell of sewers. I've not even touched on the it takes an hour to get out of the carpark and is miles from the city centre. I think we are doing pretty well to get the numbers we have. Now if we had a nice shiny stadium in a better location there is no reason why we can't average over 10k at home. Oxfordshire has a population of over 700k and increasing and this is the only football league club. Build it people will come, if the football is decent like it is at the moment people will return.
 
We are averaging 7400 in a soulless wind tunnel that feels colder than north pole and the smell of sewers. I've not even touched on the it takes an hour to get out of the carpark and is miles from the city centre. I think we are doing pretty well to get the numbers we have. Now if we had a nice shiny stadium in a better location there is no reason why we can't average over 10k at home. Oxfordshire has a population of over 700k and increasing and this is the only football league club. Build it people will come, if the football is decent like it is at the moment people will return.

Maybe, but the previous suggestion that a shiny new stadium could increase average attendances by up to 5K (even the 2.5K you suggest seems a little optimistic) is a very optimistic and the comparison to Brighton seems tenuous.

While Oxfordshire has potential, we are not just competing with the "local" teams for fans but also the teams in the PL. I suspect we lost many potential fans in the dark days of the 2000's, when kids in that period chose to support Arsenal/Chelsea/Man U during that time - will we appeal to them?
 
It was interesting to see the crowd go so low on Tuesday, especially after numerous people spent ages shouting about how proper marketing was a waste of time, and that simply winning games and being high in the league would take care of it. Given we’d just won two in a row including a 5-0 spanking seven days earlier, and a win could’ve taken us back into the playoffs by the final whistle, that was a terrible turnout. It felt like being back in the Conference, looking across at less than 100 away fans while the home ends are half full at best. So I think we can put to bed this idea that simply turning up and winning a few games isn’t how you grow your fan base. The baby bib stuff is one thing, but we still don’t seem to do any sort of sustained marketing in the here and now. Until we finally take this seriously, and regularly attempt to drive people in, the crowds simply aren’t going to grow.

I don’t know how much more people need to see before they get this, but perhaps we should get that right before we get too bogged down on if we need a new stadium or not, and what capacity it should have etc etc. Get back to engaging the fan base regularly and making sure they actually attend games, and then we can worry about the rest.
 
I certainly don't feel that 5000 extra supporters are going to show up just because we get into the championship however, given that we have had near capacity crowds on 3 occasions this season, it does show that there are football fans out there who are willing to pay to watch at a stadium in Oxford/Oxfordshire. If they were given the prospect of a more comfortable experience with easier commuting, better food outlets, more cover from the elements and clean and functioning facilities, perhaps those so called "day trippers" might actually wish to attend more often and maybe become season ticket holders.
Let's face it, most of us would pay to watch OUFC from almost anything because that's what we do, your normal family type wants and expects a bit more. I see no reason why the attendance figures shouldn't rise with promotion and a decent stadium. Regardless of who we are playing, we need to encourage the locals to attend.

Let's be realistic, those extra fans were there for man city West ham Newcastle The holiday fixtures always have a tradition of seeing higher gates so Lincoln was the rule rather than the exception.
Even on these boards there are people that often go ONLY when it's Pompey Bristol Rovers or similar and these are lifelong fans so how is anyone expecting a massive increase when it's Rochdale Burton Accrington etc.
I've said it many times before you don't really need the ott push to get bigger gates for games with Sunderland etc it is the likes of Your Burtons Accrington etc that need the attention and just think of next year if Pompey and Sunderland go up you're instantly losing some 3.000 over those 2 games alone.
There is no Magic formula but the new fans are going to be needed to be hooked very quickly before they find other things to do and one thing is for sure just sitting back hoping/expecting they will come will only have 1 outcome.
 
Let's be realistic, those extra fans were there for man city West ham Newcastle The holiday fixtures always have a tradition of seeing higher gates so Lincoln was the rule rather than the exception.
Even on these boards there are people that often go ONLY when it's Pompey Bristol Rovers or similar and these are lifelong fans so how is anyone expecting a massive increase when it's Rochdale Burton Accrington etc.
I've said it many times before you don't really need the ott push to get bigger gates for games with Sunderland etc it is the likes of Your Burtons Accrington etc that need the attention and just think of next year if Pompey and Sunderland go up you're instantly losing some 3.000 over those 2 games alone.
There is no Magic formula but the new fans are going to be needed to be hooked very quickly before they find other things to do and one thing is for sure just sitting back hoping/expecting they will come will only have 1
Maybe, but the previous suggestion that a shiny new stadium could increase average attendances by up to 5K (even the 2.5K you suggest seems a little optimistic) is a very optimistic and the comparison to Brighton seems tenuous.

While Oxfordshire has potential, we are not just competing with the "local" teams for fans but also the teams in the PL. I suspect we lost many potential fans in the dark days of the 2000's, when kids in that period chose to support Arsenal/Chelsea/Man U during that time - will we appeal to them?

We already have the fans, 30 k to Wembley. I doubt they were all there to watch Coventry. Problem is the kassam is an awful stadium, so it's not going to encourage armchair supporters or day tippers to turn up. I think you will be surprised how a new stadium will increase are attendances. Swansea is another team where they were struggling to get 6k at the vetch, they moved to a new stadium and all these fans came out the woodwork.
 
We are averaging 7400 in a soulless wind tunnel that feels colder than north pole and the smell of sewers. I've not even touched on the it takes an hour to get out of the carpark and is miles from the city centre. I think we are doing pretty well to get the numbers we have. Now if we had a nice shiny stadium in a better location there is no reason why we can't average over 10k at home. Oxfordshire has a population of over 700k and increasing and this is the only football league club. Build it people will come, if the football is decent like it is at the moment people will return.
We’ve already got a new ground. We moved from the Manor. It’s got lots of parking and is within the city. I’m not sure you can expect a much better location although obviously the finish and environment leave a lot to be desired.
 
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Or Brighton?

But this is why I said that it is important to match a shiny new stadium with good football being played, and hopefully this brings success.
Agreed. But again, I think 5000 extra is very optimistic for the majority of matches - no matter how attractive the football is.

Of course, if you can somehow make the whole event more of a family day out, a 'retail experience' then maybe that would help. Some eateries nearby (not a chip van) where families could sit down for a pre-match meal, some shops for those who weren't into football to go when the rest of the family were at the game, ample free parking with sensible leave times etc. And we always have to remember that there would be only 30 short periods per year when football is being played at any new stadium - so in fact the 'destination' has to be attractive enough to get people going there 365 days a year, football or not. So, combine a higher league, better marketing, a more appealing match and non-match 'experience' and better football and you would certainly see an upturn in average attendance. Whether you'd get that sort of increase (at least to start with) is arguable at the very least - people have to get the 'habit' of going regularly.

This is presuming of course that a new stadium was built. Imagine that some owner sometime bought the existing place. Does anyone really think that a better standard of opposition would actually bring in anything like those numbers? And the current place 'only' seats just over 12,000 - how often would we fill it?

I am not sure the 'we took 30K to Wembley' argument is a particularly good one. There is a huge difference between a trip to Wembley (as a pretty rare occurrence) and a wet Tuesday night league game against Preston (no offence intended).
 
Let's be realistic, those extra fans were there for man city West ham Newcastle The holiday fixtures always have a tradition of seeing higher gates so Lincoln was the rule rather than the exception.
Even on these boards there are people that often go ONLY when it's Pompey Bristol Rovers or similar and these are lifelong fans so how is anyone expecting a massive increase when it's Rochdale Burton Accrington etc.
I've said it many times before you don't really need the ott push to get bigger gates for games with Sunderland etc it is the likes of Your Burtons Accrington etc that need the attention and just think of next year if Pompey and Sunderland go up you're instantly losing some 3.000 over those 2 games alone.
There is no Magic formula but the new fans are going to be needed to be hooked very quickly before they find other things to do and one thing is for sure just sitting back hoping/expecting they will come will only have 1 outcome.
Of course there were the extra numbers for the "big boys" the point being that there are the numbers out there if there was an attraction to bring them along. Let's face it, having watched Man City in a concrete breeze block with non functioning/unclean toilets, struggled to get any refreshments at half time (or before kick off) most of those extra fans would have been thinking that that was a one off. Maybe, just maybe a few considered the level of play they had witnessed and thought of coming back to watch a league game but, where was the incentive? Where was the marketing to encourage? And, once they had recalled how barren the experience (aside from the football) had been, how many thought they would risk it again?

The point I have made is that there is the potential to increase numbers but not in the present climate. KR said it, in relation to the football but, the club needs to behave like a big club and do the things which will increase the awareness of the greater public. Absolutely correct in stating that there is "no magic formula" and also correct in stating that "sitting back hoping/expecting" will not work.
 
Agreed. But again, I think 5000 extra is very optimistic for the majority of matches - no matter how attractive the football is.

Of course, if you can somehow make the whole event more of a family day out, a 'retail experience' then maybe that would help. Some eateries nearby (not a chip van) where families could sit down for a pre-match meal, some shops for those who weren't into football to go when the rest of the family were at the game, ample free parking with sensible leave times etc. And we always have to remember that there would be only 30 short periods per year when football is being played at any new stadium - so in fact the 'destination' has to be attractive enough to get people going there 365 days a year, football or not. So, combine a higher league, better marketing, a more appealing match and non-match 'experience' and better football and you would certainly see an upturn in average attendance. Whether you'd get that sort of increase (at least to start with) is arguable at the very least - people have to get the 'habit' of going regularly.

This is presuming of course that a new stadium was built. Imagine that some owner sometime bought the existing place. Does anyone really think that a better standard of opposition would actually bring in anything like those numbers? And the current place 'only' seats just over 12,000 - how often would we fill it?

I am not sure the 'we took 30K to Wembley' argument is a particularly good one. There is a huge difference between a trip to Wembley (as a pretty rare occurrence) and a wet Tuesday night league game against Preston (no offence intended).


And that is basically the argument for new build over the Kassam. Modern football is about the experience, with pre and post match opportunities, and these being attractive on non-matchdays too. If you look at the new Westgate centre then the traditional retail space has been complemented by a cinema, bars, restaurants, escape room, crazy golf etc. A similar approach to a stadium complex would bring people in all year round, if the locations is right.

I agree that an increase in 5000 fans, every game, would be optimistic. But if we could marry up a new build, and all that comes with it, with success on the pitch, then anything is possible.
 
We are averaging 7400 in a soulless wind tunnel that feels colder than north pole and the smell of sewers. I've not even touched on the it takes an hour to get out of the carpark and is miles from the city centre. I think we are doing pretty well to get the numbers we have. Now if we had a nice shiny stadium in a better location there is no reason why we can't average over 10k at home. Oxfordshire has a population of over 700k and increasing and this is the only football league club. Build it people will come, if the football is decent like it is at the moment people will return.

Oxford City had a ground near the city centre and that hardly brought them big crowds and success on the pitch.

I must have been to 95% of all the home matches at the Kasstad, I live in Abingdon and never leave before the end. I am usually home by 17:35 - 17:40 on a Saturday and 22:00 to 22:10 midweek, using east or west car parks. Took about the same time to get back from the Manor by the time you walked back to the remotely parked car. Crowds there were generally a lot smaller as well.

The bus also goes straight there and again gets me home at about 17:35. I don't think there is too much wrong with the location.
 
We already have the fans, 30 k to Wembley. I doubt they were all there to watch Coventry. Problem is the kassam is an awful stadium, so it's not going to encourage armchair supporters or day tippers to turn up. I think you will be surprised how a new stadium will increase are attendances. Swansea is another team where they were struggling to get 6k at the vetch, they moved to a new stadium and all these fans came out the woodwork.

omg not we took 30k to Wembley Line, you're right they were not there for Coventry, they were there for a day out at Wembley.
What % of those who do not normal go have returned since? what % of those did the club engage with from the Database prior to the new legislation?

I gave some numbers earlier, others mentioned an extra 5k home fans but we have a stadium that will cater for that amount without saddling millions more of Debt on the club with a new stadium..

When suggestions are put forward on here what has been the normal response?
 
Of course there were the extra numbers for the "big boys" the point being that there are the numbers out there if there was an attraction to bring them along. Let's face it, having watched Man City in a concrete breeze block with non functioning/unclean toilets, struggled to get any refreshments at half time (or before kick off) most of those extra fans would have been thinking that that was a one off. Maybe, just maybe a few considered the level of play they had witnessed and thought of coming back to watch a league game but, where was the incentive? Where was the marketing to encourage? And, once they had recalled how barren the experience (aside from the football) had been, how many thought they would risk it again?

The point I have made is that there is the potential to increase numbers but not in the present climate. KR said it, in relation to the football but, the club needs to behave like a big club and do the things which will increase the awareness of the greater public. Absolutely correct in stating that there is "no magic formula" and also correct in stating that "sitting back hoping/expecting" will not work.
Agree with that ^^ @Manorlounger .... another factor, as well as those youve flagged up, in daytrippers / night-trippers returning, even if its on an occasional basis is the old chestnut of parking/ traffic management and public transport to greenoble road.... to be fair attempts have been made with the ( very much still) WIP stewarded car parking- big games with tv companies on hand have at least twice seen a large number of disabled parking spaces occupied by TV company vehicles ( corner of North stand /fence end), which on top of nearly half of the disabled spaces on the corner of South stand/fence end 'gone' , due to the car wash franchise- operatives of which do seem to entertain themselves by part soaking customers of the hotdogetc van- then theres the parking spaces themselves, IF the landlord had some of the foliage surrounding the car park behind the JS stand pruned, it'd free up another 20/30 spaces? .... also big cup games this season have seen the car parks full over an hour before kick off, so those who risk parking on verges along greenoble road, or 'illegally parking anywhere in the vicinity of the breeze block, can expect a PCN from Oxford County Council's officious wardens- ( who, when theres any sort of County Council roadworks ongoing, are not at all officious with vehicles parked with out permits in CPZs , despite charging residents £60 a year, the wardens dont enforce illegal parking , certainly not in Headington CPZs)- there are sometimes football special buses, but for nightgames only some run. Hook ups with BMW(?) with a shuttle service to the breeze block are a good incentive too, which most regular , semi- regular OUFC followers are aware of... however, for Day/Night - trippers, maybe getting the word out, as in advertising to the general public, football special buses, the BMW (?) incentive carpark/shuttle service could be advertised much better than they have been. .... Getting a £100 parking fine (albeit their own fault) isnt very inticing to turn a day/night tripper into at least an occasional at home games (IMO)
 
And that is basically the argument for new build over the Kassam.
Oh, I agree with that. I cannot see anyone buying the current place. It doesn't make financial sense and can't provide the non-football facilities that are required to make it an attractive 'destination'. Of course that does not mean that building a new place is anything other than extremely difficult either, for many reasons. But this discussion is about whether building a 25,000 or 20,000 seater stadium would be sensible - or would 10,000 supporters be rattling around in it 90% of the time?
 
And that is basically the argument for new build over the Kassam. Modern football is about the experience, with pre and post match opportunities, and these being attractive on non-matchdays too. If you look at the new Westgate centre then the traditional retail space has been complemented by a cinema, bars, restaurants, escape room, crazy golf etc. A similar approach to a stadium complex would bring people in all year round, if the locations is right.

I agree that an increase in 5000 fans, every game, would be optimistic. But if we could marry up a new build, and all that comes with it, with success on the pitch, then anything is possible.
Behind the Westgate then! Knock down that ice rink, centre of Oxford here we come?! (I can dream!)
 
Nice to see most on here using some common sense re stadium size. It always strikes me as annoyingly blinkered to go on about 20,000 - 25,000 seater stadiums with our current and historic attendances, alongside the current attendance landscape.

Half empty stadia are so ugly. We manage to play some of our home games in one and we only have 12,000 seats!!

Bournemouth sized stadium for me please.
 
Nice to see most on here using some common sense re stadium size. It always strikes me as annoyingly blinkered to go on about 20,000 - 25,000 seater stadiums with our current and historic attendances, alongside the current attendance landscape.

Half empty stadia are so ugly. We manage to play some of our home games in one and we only have 12,000 seats!!

Bournemouth sized stadium for me please.

So the same size as the Kassam Stadium then! I'd prefer 15k with potential of expansion built into the design to 20-25k.
 
Far being for me to be a spanner in the works @ Manorlounger but how does for example bringing a family of 4 to a new complex where only 1 goes to the game help the club?
You are also adding extra costs to the day and what time would people need to rock up to get a pre match meal? this would also be a virtual non runner for evening games what with peoples work schedules etc.

I also think it's a myth that folk did not return due to the area,facilities etc..They got to see Raheem Sterling and the like and then toodled off home and in all probability waited for Super Sunday and the like to see them again.
 
Without checking, I think the average attendance at the Manor in the 3 seasons we played in the top flight (84/85, 85/86, 86/87 was no higher than 8.5k, probably less ? if memory serves (it may not) there were a couple of old First division home games where the attendance only just scraped over 4k ... tuesday night V Accrington, in comparison to that, wasnt too bad
84/85 was our promotion year from the old Div 2 : average home attendance - 10,579
The 3 seasons in Div 1 :
85/86 - 11,109;
86/87 - 10,357;
87/88 - 8,355
Our best ever season was our first ever year in Div 2 in 68/69 - 11,543
 
We are averaging 7400 in a soulless wind tunnel that feels colder than north pole and the smell of sewers. I've not even touched on the it takes an hour to get out of the carpark and is miles from the city centre. I think we are doing pretty well to get the numbers we have. Now if we had a nice shiny stadium in a better location there is no reason why we can't average over 10k at home. Oxfordshire has a population of over 700k and increasing and this is the only football league club. Build it people will come, if the football is decent like it is at the moment people will return.
Why is an out-of-city-centre stadium necessarily a bad thing? Most of us don’t live in the city and the access from all parts of the county and beyond is more important than distance from Carfax. Indeed, you refer to the potential of “Oxfordshire” and its 700k residents; many people probably spend an hour or more getting to Grenoble Road. Probably most.
 
84/85 was our promotion year from the old Div 2 : average home attendance - 10,579
The 3 seasons in Div 1 :
85/86 - 11,109;
86/87 - 10,357;
87/88 - 8,355
Our best ever season was our first ever year in Div 2 in 68/69 - 11,543
cheers for clarifications, & putting me right too @warksox ... as per usual my memory, & recollection abilities are not good , especially today :rolleyes:

albeit the 8.5k was (almost) right for the last season in the top flight :sneaky:
 
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