Potential New Ground

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The best outcome would be for us to build a new stadium elsewhere, then once kassam tries to build houses on it, get as many people to object to the planning application as possible so it delays and hits him in the pocket. This is the only way we can hurt him financially.
 
The best outcome would be for us to build a new stadium elsewhere, then once kassam tries to build houses on it, get as many people to object to the planning application as possible so it delays and hits him in the pocket. This is the only way we can hurt him financially.

If the stadium's still listed as an asset of community value at the time then it'll be harder still to get planning permission
 
I know Firoz has placed a £13 million price tag on the Stadium, but what price do others think it’s actually worth.
Me, £7 - £8 million.
 
The 25 year fixed term renewal being mentioned would only come into force if the existing lease remained in force. If Firoka and the club we're both happy with a short term extension they could simply amend the terms of the existing lease or tear it up and sign a new one. Before everyone starts the "why would Kassam do that" discussion again, I'm simply pointing out the legal position which allows for plenty of different outcomes.
 
As I have always said, I hate what Kassam did and has continued to do to the club, but you cannot go to war with anybody who holds all the cards and has you by the throat with one hand and the balls with another. While he is around we must try to find a way to coexist. Nobody has to like him, but you can’t run around punching him in the face. That’s why it was incredible to see Tiger and Robinson trying to essentially whip the fan base against him last year, and so many mindless idiots wanting to join the crusade. You cannot beat this man like that - how many times and how many people do we have to see try to slap him about and fail before everybody realises it is the stupidest and most dangerous course of action?

It’ll come down to what Kassam ultimately benefits from - it always has done and always will do - but it’s in our interests to stay at least civil while we are in his clutches. If the day ever comes that we are free of him, THEN we can all burn the effigies and stick pins in voodoo dolls 24/7. But for now at least it seems that one or two people at the club realise the value of him at least being alright with our existence, which is more important than almost anything else to our future.
 
I know Firoz has placed a £13 million price tag on the Stadium, but what price do others think it’s actually worth.
Me, £7 - £8 million.

On the basis that was a while ago, I would take a punt at £22-£25 million for the stadium (owned), taking over the leasehold of the hotels, the priory & car parks.
Could still make a profit out of that and rid us of FK forever....although the small print will retain the ground "to be known as" the Kassam forever.
 
The 25 year fixed term renewal being mentioned would only come into force if the existing lease remained in force. If Firoka and the club we're both happy with a short term extension they could simply amend the terms of the existing lease or tear it up and sign a new one. Before everyone starts the "why would Kassam do that" discussion again, I'm simply pointing out the legal position which allows for plenty of different outcomes.
He might well do it if we need say a 2 year extension whilst finishing off our shiny new stadium :cool: on the basis that we then vacate and he can use the land for housing. Both he and us wouldn't want a 25 year deal so there is a compromise there.
 
On the basis that was a while ago, I would take a punt at £22-£25 million for the stadium (owned), taking over the leasehold of the hotels, the priory & car parks.
Could still make a profit out of that and rid us of FK forever....although the small print will retain the ground "to be known as" the Kassam forever.
Then bring the stadium up to standard. Build a fourth stand, close in the corners, etc. etc. Substantial investment there with very little return. The hotels are leased to the operators, IHG and Hilton, why take them? FK would still own the buildings (so we wouldn't be rid of him for ever) and he could vary the lease to his profit not the club. Sorry, but I don't understand that line of thought. The Ozone as a whole is not a big money spinning concern for the business operators. FK sits very nicely doing no work for his income. What incentive would there be for him to give up that income? The only one I know of is if he could demolish the stadium and sell on to developers for housing. With that in mind, he would be neglectful in selling the stadium for anything less than the development price.

I am still firmly on the side of moving to a new, purpose built, community stadium within a larger development of houses, offices, shops and hotels etc. The stadium becomes tied to the club and community with a link to local authorities and fulfils the need for a multi purpose venue serving Oxford. (and it wouldn't be called the K****m )
 
He might well do it if we need say a 2 year extension whilst finishing off our shiny new stadium :cool: on the basis that we then vacate and he can use the land for housing. Both he and us wouldn't want a 25 year deal so there is a compromise there.
Exactly this. The community asset situation could be lifted following the successful transition and FK has another windfall to aid his retirement fund. Win, win all round.
 
The Stadium on its own with the surrounding parking is approx. 4.2 ha (i.e. 10 acres). Development land in Oxfordshire can range anything between £600K & £1M per acre so let's say £10M. It will not be straightforward for FK (or anyone else) to get rid of a "Community Asset" & once the Oxfordshire NPPF "housing bomb" has fizzled out I can see housing growth slowing dramatically around here. So, I reckon FK's £13M is a bit too high but I bet he would snap up any offer around the £10M mark.
We don't want the Hotels & other stuff.
 
The Stadium on its own with the surrounding parking is approx. 4.2 ha (i.e. 10 acres). Development land in Oxfordshire can range anything between £600K & £1M per acre so let's say £10M. It will not be straightforward for FK (or anyone else) to get rid of a "Community Asset" & once the Oxfordshire NPPF "housing bomb" has fizzled out I can see housing growth slowing dramatically around here. So, I reckon FK's £13M is a bit too high but I bet he would snap up any offer around the £10M mark.
We don't want the Hotels & other stuff.
Really? Then how are the investors going to realise a profit, I struggle to believe that the stadium on its own would be attractive to them.
 
Really? Then how are the investors going to realise a profit, I struggle to believe that the stadium on its own would be attractive to them.
Spot on.
Does anyone really believe that the board would buy a crumbling old concrete edifice in need of major works, not to mention a fourth stand, out of the goodness of their hearts? And, then donate it to the club in perpetuity?
 
Spot on.
Does anyone really believe that the board would buy a crumbling old concrete edifice in need of major works, not to mention a fourth stand, out of the goodness of their hearts? And, then donate it to the club in perpetuity?
No but I'm not sure that paying market rate for the other property will provide enough profit to cover the £20m + for the ground either.
 
I have spent more time than most on this issue, both during my time with OxVox and also in the time since I ceased my involvement with OxVox.

Whilst with OxVox I looked into whether the Kassam Stadium could be modified architecturally should it come into club or community ownership. The answer to this was yes it could, from an architectural perspective. Tentatively, should it be purchased on favourable terms, it MIGHT have been viable financially. Two or more years down the line, and with the benefit of a lot more information I would say that financially it is a no go.

There is nothing that has happened before or since that makes me believe that Firoz Kassam will sell the stadium for anything other than at least market value. That figure is a very emotive one, but let's take the often mentioned £13 million as our starting point (and it could be more). For this we would get just the stadium and conference centre plus the associated parking. To build a new West Stand would cost between £6 million to £8 million, for something roughly mirroring the current East Stand. There would need to be another £3 million or so spent on bringing the existing three stands up to scratch and utilising the space under the East Stand. That leaves you about £25 million down and for that you have a 1990's designed stadium with a capacity of about 16,000.

Filling in the corners to take it toward 18,000/20,000 could be another £4 million to £8 million and you still have the issue of the first row of seats being miles from the pitch, something that we all complain about. There are ways of alleviating that, but you're looking at further expense running into seven figures to do so. In short, you're looking at north of £35 million for a reasonable stadium, with not enough income streams to pay for it, as Firoz Kassam already owns them all (hotels, Ozone etc). Of course he might be prepared to sell them to us, but there is no way as long as I have a hole in my a**e that he would do so for anything less than market value plus. So you're then looking at further millions, taking you into and above what it would cost to build a brand new stadium with all of the associated income streams needed to make it a sustainable venture for both the board and the club. Things like stadium naming rights can be very lucrative, but they only work for a new stadium and for the initial sponsorship. Naming rights for an existing stadium such as ours would be far less than first thought and many millions less than for a new stadium. Other facilities could be provided that are far more suitable to the 21st century than those at the Kassam Stadium are, or are ever likely to be.

All of the above assumes Kassam would sell, and as the lease runs down I see this as less and less likely. Anybody thinking we could get the whole stadium and Ozone site for £20 million needs to give their head a wobble. A new stadium would bring its own challenges, but the opportunities far outweigh these. For me buying the Kassam Stadium (even if it were for sale) would be like buying a council house that you didn't really like anyway, renovating and extending it at great cost, and then wondering why you can't get the same price for it as the executive homes on the other side of town.
 
I have spent more time than most on this issue, both during my time with OxVox and also in the time since I ceased my involvement with OxVox.

Whilst with OxVox I looked into whether the Kassam Stadium could be modified architecturally should it come into club or community ownership. The answer to this was yes it could, from an architectural perspective. Tentatively, should it be purchased on favourable terms, it MIGHT have been viable financially. Two or more years down the line, and with the benefit of a lot more information I would say that financially it is a no go.

There is nothing that has happened before or since that makes me believe that Firoz Kassam will sell the stadium for anything other than at least market value. That figure is a very emotive one, but let's take the often mentioned £13 million as our starting point (and it could be more). For this we would get just the stadium and conference centre plus the associated parking. To build a new West Stand would cost between £6 million to £8 million, for something roughly mirroring the current East Stand. There would need to be another £3 million or so spent on bringing the existing three stands up to scratch and utilising the space under the East Stand. That leaves you about £25 million down and for that you have a 1990's designed stadium with a capacity of about 16,000.

Filling in the corners to take it toward 18,000/20,000 could be another £4 million to £8 million and you still have the issue of the first row of seats being miles from the pitch, something that we all complain about. There are ways of alleviating that, but you're looking at further expense running into seven figures to do so. In short, you're looking at north of £35 million for a reasonable stadium, with not enough income streams to pay for it, as Firoz Kassam already owns them all (hotels, Ozone etc). Of course he might be prepared to sell them to us, but there is no way as long as I have a hole in my a**e that he would do so for anything less than market value plus. So you're then looking at further millions, taking you into and above what it would cost to build a brand new stadium with all of the associated income streams needed to make it a sustainable venture for both the board and the club. Things like stadium naming rights can be very lucrative, but they only work for a new stadium and for the initial sponsorship. Naming rights for an existing stadium such as ours would be far less than first thought and many millions less than for a new stadium. Other facilities could be provided that are far more suitable to the 21st century than those at the Kassam Stadium are, or are ever likely to be.

All of the above assumes Kassam would sell, and as the lease runs down I see this as less and less likely. Anybody thinking we could get the whole stadium and Ozone site for £20 million needs to give their head a wobble. A new stadium would bring its own challenges, but the opportunities far outweigh these. For me buying the Kassam Stadium (even if it were for sale) would be like buying a council house that you didn't really like anyway, renovating and extending it at great cost, and then wondering why you can't get the same price for it as the executive homes on the other side of town.
Excellent post, and I'm sure SD alluded to similar issues with purchasing the Kassam when he spent long hours looking into it.
 
I have spent more time than most on this issue, both during my time with OxVox and also in the time since I ceased my involvement with OxVox.

Whilst with OxVox I looked into whether the Kassam Stadium could be modified architecturally should it come into club or community ownership. The answer to this was yes it could, from an architectural perspective. Tentatively, should it be purchased on favourable terms, it MIGHT have been viable financially. Two or more years down the line, and with the benefit of a lot more information I would say that financially it is a no go.

There is nothing that has happened before or since that makes me believe that Firoz Kassam will sell the stadium for anything other than at least market value. That figure is a very emotive one, but let's take the often mentioned £13 million as our starting point (and it could be more). For this we would get just the stadium and conference centre plus the associated parking. To build a new West Stand would cost between £6 million to £8 million, for something roughly mirroring the current East Stand. There would need to be another £3 million or so spent on bringing the existing three stands up to scratch and utilising the space under the East Stand. That leaves you about £25 million down and for that you have a 1990's designed stadium with a capacity of about 16,000.

Filling in the corners to take it toward 18,000/20,000 could be another £4 million to £8 million and you still have the issue of the first row of seats being miles from the pitch, something that we all complain about. There are ways of alleviating that, but you're looking at further expense running into seven figures to do so. In short, you're looking at north of £35 million for a reasonable stadium, with not enough income streams to pay for it, as Firoz Kassam already owns them all (hotels, Ozone etc). Of course he might be prepared to sell them to us, but there is no way as long as I have a hole in my a**e that he would do so for anything less than market value plus. So you're then looking at further millions, taking you into and above what it would cost to build a brand new stadium with all of the associated income streams needed to make it a sustainable venture for both the board and the club. Things like stadium naming rights can be very lucrative, but they only work for a new stadium and for the initial sponsorship. Naming rights for an existing stadium such as ours would be far less than first thought and many millions less than for a new stadium. Other facilities could be provided that are far more suitable to the 21st century than those at the Kassam Stadium are, or are ever likely to be.

All of the above assumes Kassam would sell, and as the lease runs down I see this as less and less likely. Anybody thinking we could get the whole stadium and Ozone site for £20 million needs to give their head a wobble. A new stadium would bring its own challenges, but the opportunities far outweigh these. For me buying the Kassam Stadium (even if it were for sale) would be like buying a council house that you didn't really like anyway, renovating and extending it at great cost, and then wondering why you can't get the same price for it as the executive homes on the other side of town.

I think that’s what Charlie said, but got criticised for it, especially as I believe OxVox were saying at the time it was the best option which I questioned, but with no real factual evidence to back that gut feeling though.
 
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I know Firoz has placed a £13 million price tag on the Stadium, but what price do others think it’s actually worth.
Me, £7 - £8 million.
Nick merry was telling me how he offered him 13 million for the stadium but also said it was worth only 8 like you said but he still rejected it so god only knows how much he wants
 
I have spent more time than most on this issue, both during my time with OxVox and also in the time since I ceased my involvement with OxVox.

Whilst with OxVox I looked into whether the Kassam Stadium could be modified architecturally should it come into club or community ownership. The answer to this was yes it could, from an architectural perspective. Tentatively, should it be purchased on favourable terms, it MIGHT have been viable financially. Two or more years down the line, and with the benefit of a lot more information I would say that financially it is a no go.

There is nothing that has happened before or since that makes me believe that Firoz Kassam will sell the stadium for anything other than at least market value. That figure is a very emotive one, but let's take the often mentioned £13 million as our starting point (and it could be more). For this we would get just the stadium and conference centre plus the associated parking. To build a new West Stand would cost between £6 million to £8 million, for something roughly mirroring the current East Stand. There would need to be another £3 million or so spent on bringing the existing three stands up to scratch and utilising the space under the East Stand. That leaves you about £25 million down and for that you have a 1990's designed stadium with a capacity of about 16,000.

Filling in the corners to take it toward 18,000/20,000 could be another £4 million to £8 million and you still have the issue of the first row of seats being miles from the pitch, something that we all complain about. There are ways of alleviating that, but you're looking at further expense running into seven figures to do so. In short, you're looking at north of £35 million for a reasonable stadium, with not enough income streams to pay for it, as Firoz Kassam already owns them all (hotels, Ozone etc). Of course he might be prepared to sell them to us, but there is no way as long as I have a hole in my a**e that he would do so for anything less than market value plus. So you're then looking at further millions, taking you into and above what it would cost to build a brand new stadium with all of the associated income streams needed to make it a sustainable venture for both the board and the club. Things like stadium naming rights can be very lucrative, but they only work for a new stadium and for the initial sponsorship. Naming rights for an existing stadium such as ours would be far less than first thought and many millions less than for a new stadium. Other facilities could be provided that are far more suitable to the 21st century than those at the Kassam Stadium are, or are ever likely to be.

All of the above assumes Kassam would sell, and as the lease runs down I see this as less and less likely. Anybody thinking we could get the whole stadium and Ozone site for £20 million needs to give their head a wobble. A new stadium would bring its own challenges, but the opportunities far outweigh these. For me buying the Kassam Stadium (even if it were for sale) would be like buying a council house that you didn't really like anyway, renovating and extending it at great cost, and then wondering why you can't get the same price for it as the executive homes on the other side of town.
Great post Colin and what I have thought for some time, but you are doing from a position of having done a lot of work on this and being much closer to it than anybody else on here.
It would be great to bookmark this post as we will no doubt have people continuing to suggest that we should buy the stadium and the rest of the site.
The post above and what seems to be coming from the club suggests that buying the Kassam wont work as it is financially bot viable.
 
Nick merry was telling me how he offered him 13 million for the stadium but also said it was worth only 8 like you said but he still rejected it so god only knows how much he wants
Yes but perhaps FK also knew that Nick Merry didn't actually have the funds...…..and sorry, NM offered him £13m when he knew it was only worth £8m, says a lot about why he's no longer in any serious business venture (that I know of!)
 
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