General Politics and OUFC - Cause for concerns?

[Leysboy]

Welcome back Charlie!!!

Yeah welcome back Salmon Pants

 

[Orkney Islands Yellow]

So what have our prospective owners done that’s actually wrong?

I’m surprised the Telegraph ran the article. It’s a load of space filing flim-flam.

As Colin B pointed out it's an obscure cause the author of the peace has worked on previously and he's a freelancer so is paid by the article. I can't see that he's been published by the Telegraph previously but certainly his father, Mick Brown, is regularly published by them.
He's a football fan, a Palace fan, so should be aware of the scarcity of British owners ( remember what the bloody Brits did in Ireland and the Empire?!) in football these days and should understand its common for foreign investment into English football even at a lower league level like ours. Its telling he doesn't mention the stadium deal and sporting potential which could make these experienced businessmen money as that doesn't fit his narrative.

Strange article all in all putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 and imply some pretty awful things along the way.

 

[Wallop]

As Colin B pointed out it's an obscure cause the author of the peace has worked on previously and he's a freelancer so is paid by the article. I can't see that he's been published by the Telegraph previously but certainly his father, Mick Brown, is regularly published by them.
He's a football fan, a Palace fan, so should be aware of the scarcity of British owners ( remember what the bloody Brits did in Ireland and the Empire?!) in football these days and should understand its common for foreign investment into English football even at a lower league level like ours. Its telling he doesn't mention the stadium deal and sporting potential which could make these experienced businessmen money as that doesn't fit his narrative.

Strange article all in all putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 and imply some pretty awful things along the way.

First fax machine-gate and now this!

 

[MarkG]

Would someone mind clarifying the concept of "Sportwashing" in this case?

My understanding of Greenwashing and Queerwashing is when a business out-of-the-blue declares a new initiative in support for environmental/LGBTQ+ rights seemingly just to tick a box. This shows that they "care", and can be used as a means of advertising when jumping on the next big cause.

In what way does buying a football club fit this bracket?

I think it’s the idea of ‘dodgy’ regimes acquiring legitimacy by sponsorship , ownership of sports.
Qatar World Cup.
Saudi Arabia buying Newcastle United.
Both countries with less than exemplary human rights , equal rights etc.

 

[Orkney Islands Yellow]

I think it’s the idea of ‘dodgy’ regimes acquiring legitimacy by sponsorship , ownership of sports.
Qatar World Cup.
Saudi Arabia buying Newcastle United.
Both countries with less than exemplary human rights , equal rights etc.

Both a wee bit higher profile than a third tier club!!

 

[Coffin dodger]

So what have our prospective owners done that’s actually wrong?

I’m surprised the Telegraph ran the article. It’s a load of space filing flim-flam.

It read more like a Guardian article than a Telegraph one, I would imagine if there are any comments they would be full of praise for the profit making ability by those accused.

 

[Manorlounger]

It read more like a Guardian article than a Telegraph one, I would imagine if there are any comments they would be full of praise for the profit making ability by those accused.

Comments so far:

 

[Colin B]

It read more like a Guardian article than a Telegraph one, I would imagine if there are any comments they would be full of praise for the profit making ability by those accused.

He also had an article published in The Guardian on this same subject..............................................................in 2010.

 

[Tomox]

I'm not very educated in the area of Political Asylum, so can someone please explain why, if Wenda was being silenced by means of growing Indonesian influence in the city of Oxford, couldn't he just move/protest somewhere else?

Or is it true that because the Indonesian embassy prevented him from waving a flag at Cowley Road Carnival, he's now been silenced forever? I'm genuinely not trying to be facetious - I'm just trying to understand the accusation that Bakrie/Thohir have bought OUFC to silence this guy.

Also, wasn't he 'silenced' in 2017? I don't understand why buying a football club would then be necessary after this..if the Indonesian embassy managed to do this before anyway?

 

[Scotchegg]

This has been an interesting thread for many reasons. Yesterday was my birthday so was grateful that the Queen had a national party in my honour, but unfortunately she forgot to give me that day off to celebrate!! So beyond the headline article I've not gone into the depth that some have and am only just catching up.

@battman has made a number of interesting points, and I generally agree with more than some would think, especially with the need to understand where the money is coming from. We've seen with Chelsea et al how so many turn a blind eye to dirty money if it buys success and I wouldn't want our club to follow.

However, I feel closer to the likes of @AbsoluteZero and @Colin B in seeing little to worry about and still have faith that the board are here with the right intentions. And I don't mean that they're lifelong Oxford fans that are gifting their wealth to the community! I know that this is a business venture with the intent to see a greater financial return from their investment, with an opportunity to improve their profile, whilst doing something they love.

The number of posters who have jumped on this is maybe an indication of the lengths some would go to in order to discredit the stadium bid. If people are playing dirty this early then maybe they realise that they're losing the battle. However I suspect that @WitneyU will pop up on various threads that give any opportunity to question the club and the board. (Hi Charlie!!)

The most disappointing thing is that there have been a few posts from genuine Oxford United fans, who contribute frequently to this forum, who have been quick to jump on this with little evidence to back these claims. Healthy scepticism is one thing, but I do think that some almost revel in negativity.

 

[DannyW]

Maxwell was hardly a positive role model in the End, the days of local business men involved in the football clubs are long gone, unless they have a endless supply of cash they no longer need

He was never a positive role model for those paying attention

 

[OUSP]

although in terms of voting power it is not even as good as minimal ....minority shareholders consist of a number of OUFC supporters ( stating the obvious) , there is / was minority shareholder representation at board level ( elected at shareholder AGMs in the past) at OUFC - sadly, since Tiger and co have taken over ( and yes there has been 2 years of pandemic) there hasn't been a shareholders AGM held

- legally the club/ board are not required to hold one every year, however its been some time now since minority shareholders have had the chance to voice opinions, or ask questions and seek clarification from board members

with that in mind Im beginning to cynically wonder if OUSP is literally a box ticking exercise by OUFC under the current regime , as there hasn't been a Shareholders AGM held since Tiger took over from ol slippery

There is no connection between the setting up of OUSP and shareholder AGM meetings. OxVox continues to deal with governance matters and have asked this question.

 

[bazzer9461]

Comments so far:
View attachment 8962

Sort of comments we could do without, but I suppose it’s expected.

 

[tonyw]

I thought Bakrie's quote at the end of the article was quite telling. No denial that the takeover wasn't linked to attempts to quash West Papua's independence movement.

To be honest, the more I read the more concerned I'm feeling. Bakrie's social media is full of photos of him in meetings with the Indonesian government, and a quick Google search shows his business has been riddled with allegations of corruption, bribery and financial mismanagement.

Can't help but feel if we push on then it's going to be a similar outcome to Notts County after that takeover a few years back.

If something seems too be good to be true, it normally is.

I'm going back a few pages in the thread - but Notts County is not really the appropriate comparison here. Their 2009 takeover was just a con job.....an invention of a middle eastern consortium that their fans, and the likes of Sven Goran Eriksson & Sol Campbell fell for. This is not the same situation because we know who Bakrie is and that his money is real.

For me, the closest comparison - although it's a slightly different scale - is Roman Abramovich. Similarly insanely wealthy; similarly close ties to a foreign government that has, at least in part, helped the Bakrie family to grow their wealth; and similarly it's a government that has a questionable track record on human rights.

I don't for a second think that they are pouring money into OUFC purely to shut down a single West Papuan activist that happens to live in Oxford. That would be like using a steamroller to hammer in a nail. But that doesn't mean we should just ignore articles like this one. If we're throwing in our lot with a pair of Indonesian businessman with such close ties to their government, then we really ought to educate ourselves at least a little as to what that government is doing.

 

[Orkney Islands Yellow]

Can I presume posters like Battman, WitneyU etc won't attend another game whilst Bakrie and Thohir are associated with OUFC as a result of this article?

 

[Scotchegg]

Can I presume posters like Battman, WitneyU etc won't attend another game whilst Bakrie and Thohir are associated with OUFC as a result of this article?

I think that's massively unfair on @battman who is very clearly a fan but has a slightly different take on this one issue. @WitneyU is either the long lost Charles Harry Finlayson Methven returning to troll this forum, or someone looking to discredit the club and couldn't wait to jump in to this thread and has never been to a game.

You can't put these two posters in the same category even if you have different views on this.

 

[unification]

Can I presume posters like Battman, WitneyU etc won't attend another game whilst Bakrie and Thohir are associated with OUFC as a result of this article?

That’s a cheap dig.

I’m fairly relaxed about all this but it would be a poor move to completely ignore it. We can and should have a moral compass about those running the club and the ethics we all choose to live by should be reflected by those at the club.

I hope they are and have no evidence to say that they aren’t. However this article gives a hint of doubt that could be explained away fairly easily.

 

[Headley]

I really don't see what the fuss is about and what relevance Oxford United are in all of this.

It's a dispute over land that dates back to the 60's when Indonesia were granted the ownership of the land by the UN.

The same situation could apply to potential owners coming from all over the world, Britain included.

In fact Britain's history is far worse, if a prominent British business owner was investing in sporting businesses in Afghanistan or Iraq it would be far more controversial.

 

[Deanroger]

It does appear that a conspiracy is afoot by these new YF members
@WitneyU
@YellowinBirmingham
@willybum
@Deanroger
An article from a freelance journalist appears in the Telegraph and @Manorlounger post this on hear for all of us to read in what is an interesting item.
So all of a sudden they appear well two of them and the other two junior members seem to question the situation in a very negative manner. As @Colin B posted about stepping back and not allow ourselves to be divided.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am no part of any conspiracy. I've been watching Oxford for nearly 50 years and I would love to see us move somewhere into a new home of our own and become sustainable. There must be some concern however about what happens if the current owners walk away and leave us 18, 20 or even 30 million in debt.

 

[bazzer9461]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am no part of any conspiracy. I've been watching Oxford for nearly 50 years and I would love to see us move somewhere into a new home of our own and become sustainable. There must be some concern however about what happens if the current owners walk away and leave us 18, 20 or even 30 million in debt.

If and it is a big if they were to walk away who is to say that they may take the debt with them?
But why mention “ if the current owners walk away” I do hope you realise if they walk away that could be the death knell of this club.