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Pep vs MApp

gingerox

Active member
#1
I notice a number of similarities between them:
-Both had playing careers cut short by injury
-Both started as assistants
-Both had poor managerial records before coming to us as reasonably young coaches
-Appleton had a reasonably poor start, with signings being questioned. Also accused of playing tippy tappy football and not having a Plan B.
-Both had arguably the majority of fans calling for their head

I'm really against sacking managers, especially when they've only been given a few months. Being in the L2 relegation zone is nothing compared to being midtable in L1, and yet we stuck with Mapp. Looking back, the amount of s**t he got was unbelievable when you look at how we regard him today.

Looking at our team, we've got a back four who are all in their first season here, some of whom haven't played at a decent standard consistently for a while and none of them have played together before. Our captain is out injured for what looks like the season. We lost our manager, captain and two top goal scorers in the summer and haven't really reinvested, which I think is better than spending for spending's sake. If we were expecting to be higher than 10th and 5pts off the playoffs I think that was unrealistic and unfair on whoever came in.

Obviously today wasn't acceptable. I don't think Pep was entirely to blame, nor do I think the manger ever entirely is. Blaming to 'motivate' his players infuriates me, they're getting paid thousands a week to play football and being told they're playing top of the league should be all the motivation they need. We were properly s**t but the Wigan fans I've spoken to think that was the one of their best performances all season, even considering how we played.

Anyway, rant over. Basically the similarities with MApp and the potential we've seen makes me think we should stick with Pep for a decent amount of time and let him see whether he can come good like MApp did, but after today I'd understand if you disagreed.
 
#2
Difference is you could see what MApp was trying to do and it worked. With Pep it’s academy level tactics and I don’t see a system or way of playing that will bring us success.

Saying that until we have extra investment I feel we are a mid table league 1 side which considering how low we have been is no bad thing right.
 

yellowbow

Well-known member
#4
Yesterday simply wouldn’t have happened under Appleton. Unfortunately for Pep he’s now lost a large portion of the fan base. Footballers can be a selfish breed, it won’t be long before the chat amongst them moves from what they can do to change things to what the head coach needs to do. Rightly or wrongly, if they start to perceive that he’s damaging their careers he’s lost the dressing room and then, no matter what Eales is hoping to do or not do, he’s a dead man walking
 
#5
Pep is doing much the same as Mapp did but at a higher level against far better sides cambridge were no wigan.
It was around this time Mapp got roofe in (another bloody academy player with no lg2 experience)

So maybe he deserves another go in the jan window find a more suitable type of foreigner to fit his system whatever that is.

We dont really know if he is doing his best with a reduced playing budget or if he has just spunked wages on the players that are well below lg1 level only DE will know that.
 
#6
Didn’t want to start a new thread so this seems the most appropriate place to post this.

Mapp is on EFL matters tomorrow (Thursday 7PM) on Sky Sports.

As it is based solely on the EFL he is likely to mention us, will probably give a view on how Pep is doing.
 
#7
On the topic of comparing Pep and Appleton, I think it’s worth pointing out that the January transfer window during the latter’s first season was certainly a changing point, and probably one of the most defining periods of his tenure.

During that month, we signed: MacDonald, Baldock, Skarz, and Roofe (among others). All were key players in our run at the end of the season and promotion the following year. It certainly must be said that we recruited very well that month, but we were also given the chance to recruit well by Eales.

Will this window be a defining moment of Pep’s tenure? We have made some good signings thus far, but I still think we need 1 or 2 more if we are to see a similar level of improvement in our performances that we did during the 14/15 season.

FWIW, I think Pep has had a better first half season than Appleton did. I know the club was in a better position when he took over than it was when he predecessor did, but he still had to deal with a lot of departures during the summer. We lost a lot of key players, and a lot of the players brought in seemed to be short term fixes.

That said, Appleton learned quickly, and found out a way to not only pay pretty football but effective, winning football. Let’s hope Pep has learned lessons too.
 
#8
Appleton had a terrible first year and you could see what he was doing but it just wasn't working. I could have let him go at points early on because our performances were just so poor. But he learnt quickly and had a cracking recruitment philosophy to boot.

Pep is similar to Appleton in that you can see what he's trying to do and it's great to have a philosophy. However, It's pretty certain that he's going to have a similar first year to Appleton. The difference to me - an unforgivable difference at the moment - is Pep's recruitment. Any rational fan was worried by what he did in the summer. People bitched and moaned about the crocs (often just to be called 'racist') because they were worried about experience, age and injury.

We seem to have reverted to our successful model and hopefully Pep learns as quickly as Appleton did, because if we had Appleton this year I think we'd be well in the playoffs at this point.
 

Jack Midson

Junior Member
#9
Appleton had a terrible first year and you could see what he was doing but it just wasn't working. I could have let him go at points early on because our performances were just so poor. But he learnt quickly and had a cracking recruitment philosophy to boot.

Pep is similar to Appleton in that you can see what he's trying to do and it's great to have a philosophy. However, It's pretty certain that he's going to have a similar first year to Appleton. The difference to me - an unforgivable difference at the moment - is Pep's recruitment. Any rational fan was worried by what he did in the summer. People bitched and moaned about the crocs (often just to be called 'racist') because they were worried about experience, age and injury.

We seem to have reverted to our successful model and hopefully Pep learns as quickly as Appleton did, because if we had Appleton this year I think we'd be well in the playoffs at this point.
Sure, some of Pep's early signings haven't worked out, but nor did a lot of Appleton's. Howard, Brown, Morris, George Long.... Gnanduillet
 

PC

Active member
#11
People bitched and moaned about the crocs (often just to be called 'racist') because they were worried about experience, age and injury.
Since you were the only person who was called 'racist' on one occasion (you made racist comments then pulled your neck in) that means neither that 'people' made racist comments nor that it happened 'often'.
 
#15
Admittedly not long but then neither did Appleton in his first season. The main difference is that Pep inherited a much stronger group of contracted players than Mapp did.
I’ve seen this comment quite a lot, but I’m not sure how true it is. Sure, he inherited a stronger group. But I’d say it was only marginally so, not ‘much’ stronger. Don’t forget, the likes of Hylton, Wright, Clarke, O’Dowda and Mullins we’re already at the club when Appleton arrived


Off the top of my head, here’s a list of players that left or had their loans expire last summer:

Dunkley
Edwards
Skarz
Johnson
Lundstram
Johnson
McAleny
Maguire
Martinez
Sercombe

That’s nearly a whole team of first team players.

So, he inherited a squad that was better. No one could argue that Eastwood, Ledson, Hall and Nelson are not good players at this level. But I think it’s often overlooked just how many changes to the squad there were last summer, all of which were seemingly out of Pep’s control.
 
#16
...and he inherited these players in a League above (and a tough league at that) where MApp started, so it doesn't feel fair to compare them.
 

Dave T

Well-known member
#17
Admittedly not long but then neither did Appleton in his first season. The main difference is that Pep inherited a much stronger group of contracted players than Mapp did.
I’ve seen this comment quite a lot, but I’m not sure how true it is. Sure, he inherited a stronger group. But I’d say it was only marginally so, not ‘much’ stronger. Don’t forget, the likes of Hylton, Wright, Clarke, O’Dowda and Mullins we’re already at the club when Appleton arrived


Off the top of my head, here’s a list of players that left or had their loans expire last summer:

Dunkley
Edwards
Skarz
Johnson
Lundstram
Johnson
McAleny
Maguire
Martinez
Sercombe

That’s nearly a whole team of first team players.

So, he inherited a squad that was better. No one could argue that Eastwood, Ledson, Hall and Nelson are not good players at this level. But I think it’s often overlooked just how many changes to the squad there were last summer, all of which were seemingly out of Pep’s control.
Totally agree , apart from us losing Johnson twice
 
#18
I’ve seen this comment quite a lot, but I’m not sure how true it is. Sure, he inherited a stronger group. But I’d say it was only marginally so, not ‘much’ stronger. Don’t forget, the likes of Hylton, Wright, Clarke, O’Dowda and Mullins we’re already at the club when Appleton arrived


Off the top of my head, here’s a list of players that left or had their loans expire last summer:

Dunkley
Edwards
Skarz
Johnson
Lundstram
Johnson
McAleny
Maguire
Martinez
Sercombe

That’s nearly a whole team of first team players.

So, he inherited a squad that was better. No one could argue that Eastwood, Ledson, Hall and Nelson are not good players at this level. But I think it’s often overlooked just how many changes to the squad there were last summer, all of which were seemingly out of Pep’s control.
Fair enough, however I’d argue that not only did Pep inherit a stronger group of players (some of whom were valuable assets), Mapp didn’t have that luxury. Pep ‘inherited’ a much better structure around the football club, such as the recruitment team, a coaching set up who already knew the players, a club that was back on the map and a club that players wanted to sign & play for.

I’m not saying that Pep had it easy to begin with, not at all, but what am saying is that Appleton inherited a lesser talented group of players, very few saleable assets and a football club that needed a lot of work on and off the field to make it a place where players and fans wanted to be.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not having a go at Pep, I’m willing to give him time that’s only fair, I desperately want him to be successful, but in my view Mapp is a tough act to follow.

Appleton delivered a promotion, 2 Wembley appearances, unforgettable FA Cup runs, attractive football, exciting players who wanted to play for him and therefore OUFC, and valuable saleable assets.