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SteMerritt said:
No I'm afraid it just isn't. You can have a mix of the two. Google Intersex or hermaphrodite. Gender isn't as black and white as you would have it. It's not common, but it's not absolute.
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Come on. Don’t take it out of context. Those are anomalies. If you are born a male, you CANNOT change genders. If you are born a female, you CANNOT change genders. I am fully aware of what intersex and hermaphroditism is. You cannot compare those conditions to being transgender, or being born a single gender.
 
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LeftSideBoy said:
Come on. Don’t take it out of context. Those are anomalies. If you are born a male, you CANNOT change genders. If you are born a female, you CANNOT change genders. I am fully aware of what intersex and hermaphroditism is. You cannot compare those conditions to being transgender.
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What I am saying is gender isn't absolute. It's a combination of physical attributes and hormones, which can be out of sync.
 
SteMerritt said:
What I am saying is gender isn't absolute. It's a combination of physical attributes and hormones, which can be out of sync.
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That still doesn’t change the point I am trying to make. No matter how many medical procedures one undergoes, you cannot change genders. You may look like a woman and talk like a woman. However, biologically and chromosomally, you will still be a male and you always will be. Im afraid in that regard, it is that absolute.
 
LeftSideBoy said:
That still doesn’t change the point I am trying to make. No matter how many medical procedures one undergoes, you cannot change genders. You may look like a woman and talk like a woman. However, biologically and chromosomally, you will still be a male and you always will be. Im afraid in that regard, it is that absolute.
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Thanks for your thoughts @LeftSideBoy. I do take your points.
 
LeftSideBoy said:
Denial of fact isn’t something that I, or the wider world should encourage. I’ll say it again: no matter what medical procedure you choose to endure, you cannot change gender. You may try, but you can’t. Shall we just pretend that science is wrong?

You’re making it sound as though I don’t think this world is for everyone? Thats not the case at all. My point is: a man cannot be a woman and a woman cannot be a man. Prove me wrong.
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You’re very quick to assert what is a fact and what isn’t.
 
LeftSideBoy said:
That still doesn’t change the point I am trying to make. No matter how many medical procedures one undergoes, you cannot change genders. You may look like a woman and talk like a woman. However, biologically and chromosomally, you will still be a male and you always will be. Im afraid in that regard, it is that absolute.
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Where have we got to on the law issue ? With regards to changing gender. I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong.
 
rosieburns said:
Where have we got to on the law issue ? With regards to changing gender. I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong.
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If that’s all you have then your argument is flimsy at best. Come back to me when you have science on your side..
 
chuckbert said:
Go on then. Proof.
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Sex in humans is determined upon conception. And it develops from the fourth week of gestation. After conception, sex is fixed. The human karyotype doesn’t shapeshift. Nor does the genitalia of a human suddenly disapear, or turn into opposite-sexed genitalia. No amount of medical intervention will change that fact.

Gender is not only a function of biology, but it is also a set of characteristics assigned to an individual based on their biology.

As it has been said in many of my previous posts, the best that can be done is to change some features through hormone therapy and surgery. The end result will be a man who looks like a woman, or a woman who looks like a man, but biologically that man or woman still has the brain, bone structure, and genital function of their birth sex.

Gender is determined at the chromosomal level, and this is unchangeable.

If you can present a medical procedure that can achieve this, I would love to see it..
 
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LeftSideBoy said:
If that’s all you have then your argument is flimsy at best. Come back to me when you have science on your side..
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You clearly stated on here on more than one occasion that you cannot change gender by denying the law and asked me to prove it. I have pointed you in the right direction ( gender recognition act) and have also provided some of the conditions to obtain a GRC certificate so I'm now asking you to prove me wrong.
Is it because you cannot ? And have such a closed mind that you cannot face facts and laws.
 
rosieburns said:
You clearly stated on here on more than one occasion that you cannot change gender by denying the law and asked me to prove it. I have pointed you in the right direction ( gender recognition act) and have also provided some of the conditions to obtain a GRC certificate so I'm now asking you to prove me wrong.
Is it because you cannot ? And have such a closed mind that you cannot face facts and laws.
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If anyone has a problem with facts, it’s you
 
rosieburns said:
Still not provided me with your answer to my question ?
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And you have skirted around everything I have said, just so you can use this law to substantiate everything you are saying? For the 5th time: I don’t care about what the law says. The law says I can marry my car if I choose to. That doesn’t mean it’s right to do so. Do you care to respond to any of the scientific points I have raised or are you unable to do so?
 
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LeftSideBoy said:
Sex in humans is determined upon conception. And it develops from the fourth week of gestation. After conception, sex is fixed. The human karyotype doesn’t shapeshift. Nor does the genitalia of a human suddenly disapear, or turn into opposite-sexed genitalia. No amount of medical intervention will change that fact.

Gender is not only a function of biology, but it is also a set of characteristics assigned to an individual based on their biology.

As it has been said in many of my previous posts, the best that can be done is to change some features through hormone therapy and surgery. The end result will be a man who looks like a woman, or a woman who looks like a man, but biologically that man or woman still has the brain, bone structure, and genital function of their birth sex.

Gender is determined at the chromosomal level, and this is unchangeable.

If you can present a medical procedure that can achieve this, I would love to see it..
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That's not proof. That's you saying what you think. What is your expertise in this area?
 
Without getting into this thread too much... laws are developed by society and are different in different countries and laws change.
Scientific fact is the same everywhere.
 
Essexyellows said:
It`s scientific fact based on the development of a foetus after conception.
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No it's not. Sex and gender mean different things. Not the same thing, and they are not interchangeable. It may be (approximately) correct to say that from a chromosomal point of view, sex is determined at conception (except for all XXY people and those with unusual variants of the various regulatory molecules that influence sex).
What LSB said was "Science states that it is impossible to switch genders". I've not seen any proof of this.
 
It's strange that bigots shout "It's science!" without mentioning the scientists and the medical establishment in general that completely supports gender transition. So "it is science" to the level that you learned in Y10 biology 40 years ago. the world may be more complex than that class allowed for.
 
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