National News Official 2019 General Election Thread

QR said:
If it hasn't produce a parliament the reflects the views of the people it's not democratic. Is that really debatable?
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When you lost the referendum you claimed that we were a parliamentary democracy and referendums are not valid, now you have lost a General Election it’s the wrong sort of democracy? I have a feeling the sort of democracy you like is practiced in North Korea.
 
Hey! We are football fans.
Almost exactly 2 years ago I campaigned for friends and family to come with me to the Kassam and we were tonked 0-7.
Now we are in with a realistic chance of promotion!
And the moral of the story is...see how things stand after the Tories P**s everyone off with their post-Brexit mess, their sale of the NHS, their broken promises, their re-opening of wounds in Ireland etc etc.
 
unification said:
I'd throw in Labour's disregard of their core seats. Corbyn had his front bench filled with Starmer, Abbott, Thornberry etc. So London-centric.

For the next election, they need to go back and appeal to those that can win them elections - Scotland, the midlands, the north and Wales. London will look after itself and most cities will too. The towns are were they lost out.
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Agree, I through that in "2".
 
Shropshire U said:
Hey! We are football fans.
Almost exactly 2 years ago I campaigned for friends and family to come with me to the Kassam and we were tonked 0-7.
Now we are in with a realistic chance of promotion!
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Quite.

And to quote Pep, yesterday's result was 'not ideal' :)
 
holdsteady said:
When you lost the referendum you claimed that we were a parliamentary democracy and referendums are not valid, now you have lost a General Election it’s the wrong sort of democracy? I have a feeling the sort of democracy you like is practiced in North Korea.
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Did I really? Could you show me where?
 
I’m glad the uncertainty is over at last. Maybe the economy will start to recover along with the housing market.
Hopefully, I can look forward to a Comfortable retirement and enjoy watching Oxford United on a more regular basis too.
Hopefully this long thread can now be closed as it’s run and run
 
QR said:
If it hasn't produce a parliament the reflects the views of the people it's not democratic. Is that really debatable?
Click to expand...

Ah, this old dead horse. Let's give the poor old b****r a flog. I put it to you that the reason we have a representative democracy is to moderate the views of the people so that they can't get up to mischief that their betters wouldn't like. Same reason the wealthy are so keen to own media and manipulate mass communications. Give the voter a simple choice and lead him to it by the nose.

The election reflects the moderated voice of the people, it reflects the common mood perfectly - just like in 1914 when a generation rushed into the trenches to be slaughtered. A terrible, sad waste.
 
SteMerritt said:
Not much of a "surge" for the pound going from 1.32 to 1.33... Wasn't it over 1.40 before the referendum, and 1.60 before the banking crisis?
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Yeah, but get used to these types of claims in an attempt to justify the event. Same as when the fire sale begins after Brexit and it’s heralded as an unstoppable tsunami of investment, when in reality it’ll be rich people - including an awful lot of people not from these shores - buying all manner of British industries and assets on the cheap. And who have been given the chance to do so by an awful lot of people who don’t have much to their name, waving miniature Union Jack flags because some posh people in suits told them that this was the way to make their lives better.

I hope it turns out to be everything they dreamed of. This isn’t a game.
 
QR said:
The progressive parties (Labour/Lib Dem/Green/SNP) get 52% of the vote.

Now, why does that number ring a bell??
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2011 United Kingdom Alternative Vote referendum - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

We had a referendum on PR only 8 years ago.
As a Liberal Democrat I have always wanted this, but the public weren't interested/ voted heavily against it.
There was a very simple way to get this changed. The 2 big parties of course were against this (and I am guessing that had Corbyn won with a majority not many labour voters would be moaning about the voting system)
 
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radicalox said:
Very interesting to see now that they have such a majority, whether the torys stick to their manifesto or swing to abit more right wing policies.
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If they have any sense (OK maybe not) , they will realise that they could get another 2 terms after this if they try and keep the middle ground.
If Labour get their act together then maybe not, but reading some of the defeated talk (some has to be fair been sensible), a lot have sounded like a football team losing a game 5 0 blaming the ref for the defeat.
The Country desperately needs a good opposition, but my worry is that Momentun and the Corbyn side of the party will hang on in there and the Tories will win again in 5 years time
 
Foley said:

2011 United Kingdom Alternative Vote referendum - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

We had a referendum on PR only 8 years ago.
As a Liberal Democrat I have always wanted this, but the public weren't interested/ voted heavily against it.
There was a very simple way to get this changed. The 2 big parties of course were against this (and I am guessing that had Corbyn won with a majority not many labour voters would be missing about the voting system)
Click to expand...

The AV referendum was a waste of time really.

1. It wasn't PR. It was a compromise referendum and Labour and the Tories weren't going to campaign for it when they weren't going to benefit from it.
2. The zeitgeist was anti-LD at the time. Even if Clegg had been championing PR, he wouldn't have won it because it came from the Tories backers in government. The backlash hit them at the 2015 GE. To think that at at the 2005 election, the LDs won 62 seats. 10 years later, they had eight. They've never recovered really.

However, the culture now amongst the opposition parties may see PR as more appealing. Labour look spent and divided, the LDs poll 3m votes and only return 11 seats and the SNP get away with it year on year securing 1.2m votes and yet have 48 seats. With even Nigel Farage calling for PR, is there political space for a campaign for it?
 
unification said:
However, the culture now amongst the opposition parties may see PR as more appealing. Labour look spent and divided, the LDs poll 3m votes and only return 11 seats and the SNP get away with it year on year securing 1.2m votes and yet have 48 seats. With even Nigel Farage calling for PR, is there political space for a campaign for it?
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Well they might when they lose. ..
To get PR we need a party who actually succeeds to be in favour.
So next time Labour win an outright majority will they go for PR? I very much doubt it.
AV may have been a 'waste of time' but it may have been the only chance.
The only way I can see it happening again is if there is a hung Parliament , and those minority parties try and force it through
 
unification said:
The AV referendum was a waste of time really.

1. It wasn't PR. It was a compromise referendum and Labour and the Tories weren't going to campaign for it when they weren't going to benefit from it.
2. The zeitgeist was anti-LD at the time. Even if Clegg had been championing PR, he wouldn't have won it because it came from the Tories backers in government. The backlash hit them at the 2015 GE. To think that at at the 2005 election, the LDs won 62 seats. 10 years later, they had eight. They've never recovered really.

However, the culture now amongst the opposition parties may see PR as more appealing. Labour look spent and divided, the LDs poll 3m votes and only return 11 seats and the SNP get away with it year on year securing 1.2m votes and yet have 48 seats. With even Nigel Farage calling for PR, is there political space for a campaign for it?
Click to expand...

Absolutely, the referendum was for (IIRC) single transferable vote within a constituency so all it offered was a slight smoothing between the big parties, it offered nothing for the outriders: Greens, Socialists, UKIP and whatever.

Perhaps there's an appetite for a real national PR with lists where seats reflect the number of votes, I was kind of impressed last night that 1,500 or people in each early declaration seat were voting Green - which is a total waste of a vote measured in terms of influencing the number of seats any party gets in parliament. Beautiful optimism. I can't share it. For the next term the Tory government will be concentrating (electorally) on reforming constituency boundaries, preventing wild and bogus reporting from the likes of the BBC and Channel 4 and reforming social media so that it can be used more effectively to disseminate simple and divisive messages against opponents of the, um, Tories.
 
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