National News Official 2019 General Election Thread

Odd how the Labour Party's enemies are so interested to debate how it should be organised.
 
Not so much an enemy, just disaffected. If they had offered a position that was comfortable for me (and many others) I may well have voted for them.
 
I’d be happier with a credible opposition to BJ. There seems to be a paucity of candidates unfortunately.
I am not so sure Starmer or Jess Phillips would have the charisma or following of their MPs
Labour failed, I think, because they couldn’t connect the voters, especially Corbyn. Johnson was laborious with his message to get brexit done. Voters were fed up with the paralysis.
The Liberals were a real let down, and got bogged down with revoking article 50.
It seems like many of Labours politicians are opposed to Corbyn, as were the voters.
Im still concerned as to whether Boris can be trusted though.
 
Big Ronaldo said:
The Labour Party now have to face the uncomfortable truth, that despite all the warning signs that they were going to suffer humiliation at this GE, They stumbled on into it with the wrong leader, the wrong policies and the wrong messages.
Surely, surely, out there on the streets of Anytown, Labour activists ears echoed with the deafening sound of rejection?
How did they fail to see the abyss of opinion that lay between them and their electorate beforehand?
I fail to see how a party can be so adrift of their electorate from within.
What credible reason can there now be for Jeremy Corbyn to remain in charge?
The very start of rebuilding needs for him to resign immediately, not for him to use his withering influence to select an ‘approved’ successor/clone to his broken movement.
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Nope it is everybody else's fault rather than Corbyn, Momentum etc. They've become a glorified 6th form debating society.
 
Paul Cannell said:
Ah, this old dead horse. Let's give the poor old b****r a flog. I put it to you that the reason we have a representative democracy is to moderate the views of the people so that they can't get up to mischief that their betters wouldn't like. Same reason the wealthy are so keen to own media and manipulate mass communications. Give the voter a simple choice and lead him to it by the nose.

The election reflects the moderated voice of the people, it reflects the common mood perfectly - just like in 1914 when a generation rushed into the trenches to be slaughtered. A terrible, sad waste.
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I'm not a fan of the Lib Dems but it's not great in a democracy that you can increase your vote share and have less seats. The Green Party had over 600,000 votes but for one seat. If we had PR they would probably get a lot more, as in the current system people don't want to waste votes. What our voting system does do generally (not in recent years) is allow a one party government who are more able to implement their policies so they function more smoothly. PR does give you situations like is currently happening in Israel where they can't form a government but on balance I would go with PR. It would allow the government to better reflect the majority of public as opposed to the current system. The current government doesn't do this.
 
Peterdev said:
I’d be happier with a credible opposition to BJ. There seems to be a paucity of candidates unfortunately.
I am not so sure Starmer or Jess Phillips would have the charisma or following of their MPs
Labour failed, I think, because they couldn’t connect the voters, especially Corbyn. Johnson was laborious with his message to get brexit done. Voters were fed up with the paralysis.
The Liberals were a real let down, and got bogged down with revoking article 50.
It seems like many of Labours politicians are opposed to Corbyn, as were the voters.
Im still concerned as to whether Boris can be trusted though.
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Quite clearly Johnson can't be trusted as he has demonstrated throughout his political and journalism career. Didn't the attempts to undermine Parliamentary procedure, lies and tactics of the campaign make it clear?

I'm not even including his personal life.
 
I was surprised how big the conservative majority was.
My ideas on the poll result is there were several reasons anyone could decide not to vote labour.
Corbyn, higher taxes , antisemitism, the magic money tree, no view on brexit.

Whereas reasons not to vote conservative were not trusting Boris, a desire to redistribute wealth which Guildfordians see as ‘mine’ and that they pay enough tax, threat to nhs, a commitment to getting brexit done.

Also that a far left manifesto works when you have a mainly working class population, however over the last 30 years uk manufacturing has declined and that a more centrist approach is needed.

Perhaps a good thing is that having a healthy majority means we don’t need to throw bribes to get things through parliament. Though this could be the opportunity to tax google and amazon etc but I doubt will happen.
 
www.theguardian.com

This is a repudiation of Corbynism. Labour needs to ditch the politics of the sect | Jonathan Freedland

A 1970s hard-left clique led the party into a dead end – and it’s the poor and vulnerable who will pay the price, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com



Decent article from Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian.

Too long to post in full, so here a few snippets.


Corbyn’s own vanity was too great for him even to consider such an act of self-sacrifice. Instead he was encouraged by his own devoted legions of supporters, for whom the idea of a change of leader was heresy. In their mind, it was better to lose under Corbyn than to have a shot at winning with someone – anyone – else.

Perhaps it was too much to ask that he make way for a candidate less sure to repel the electorate. But he made this a presidential campaign, his face everywhere, other Labour heavyweights banished from the airwaves. In their place were factionally approved nodding dogs such as Richard Burgon. Never mind that they were bound to be useless, what mattered was that they were loyal to the ruling clique.


That’s what a political party is for. It’s not a hobby; it’s not a pressure group that exists to open the Overton window a little wider; it’s not an association for making friends or hosting stimulating conversations and seminars; it’s not “a 30-year project”. Its purpose is to win and exercise power in the here and now. It is either a plausible vehicle for government or it is nothing.


Instead, the leadership clique dragged around their 1970s baggage and arcane ideological obsessions – the antisemitism arose not by accident, but as the inevitable outgrowth of a strain of left conspiracist thinking – that marked them out as cranks, unfit to run the country.


To warn of this danger and sound the alarm was to be instantly howled down as a Blairite, a centrist, a red Tory. On social media, a group of outriders policed the conversation, unleashing a pile-on of mockery and denunciation on anyone guilty of pointing out that the emperor seemed to be unnervingly lacking in clothes. (Then they affected surprise when those they’d told to “f**k off and join the Tories” didn’t come running to help.)
 
Steve McAvoy said:
Don’t forget the vacuous face of New Labour at the end of the table. Take your time Jezza, don’t cave in to the pressure for a quick leader ship election, it is not the job of the Party to provide cheap headlines. A considered Leadership debate with coherent candidate is what is required.
Am I the only one who is bemused by the fact of a member of our privileged Class ‘lending’ from among the poorest their votes to ensure his Class maintain their privileged position and the depth of their wallet? Having said that, I hope to be among the first to try out the new cycle-track in Wakefield as communication gaps between the north and London are tackled.
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So what exactly is the point of the Labour Party in its current guise?
 
QR said:
So what exactly is the point of the Labour Party in its current guise?
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It no longer has one beyond making narcissistic fools on social media feel as though they’re superior. The Labour Party has become the hip new accessory for the Twitter and Instagram generation, aimed primarily at people under the age of 30 who want to see who can shout loudest about being the most progressive and liberal, or as they often refer to such things nowadays, ‘woke’. It’s been turned into a fashion statement for a generation that holds little value for anything, as they’ve been raised in a digital world where everything is free and available at the touch of a button, and reality is whatever it is that they choose to make it. As a result, they will almost certainly not get back into power until at least the 2030’s.
 
Looking at the Twitter feeds of the likes of Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar, they just don't get it, still. A 10 minute review of polling data lays out the parties problem.

I see Lisa Nandy has put herself forward for the leadership of Labour, but I suspect her criticisms of the leader and party in the past few years have marked her out as a troublemaker - and her being northern won't help. But she is a more nuanced politician than the likes of Burgon who understands the lost heartlands.

As for the Tories, it's time to stop the talk now and do what they said they will. They have to deliver and they have no stoppers in parliament in the likes of Bercow et al to blame if stuff goes wrong or gets delayed. There are no excuses now.

Just reflecting on the past few years, where we would be if Parliament had approved May's deal? I wasn't the only one who suggested that it would be the best deal Remainers would get, and it turns out we were right on that. No Deal is ironically, still there...
 
Since the big win, there has been a big increase in shares, and house prices are expected to start going up. This might be described as a Boris bounce caused by optimism in companies wanting to invest in the UK
Had there been a hung parliament we might well have a large degree of uncertainty for some time.
Personally if shares do well and I can retire next week and move back to Oxford again I will be happy
 
Pete Burrett said:
I think everyone can (or at least should) accept that Labour is deep in the doldrums, with a leadership that still doesn't really believe it needs to apologise for the debacle.

Keep your eye on Wes Streeting, 36 year old Labour MP for Ilford North. Possibly a future leader, certainly a future shadow cabinet member. Talks intelligently, humbly and modestly and I found myself agreeing with everything he's said in the media over the last couple of days. A rare jewel in a party that needs to rebuild around his ilk.
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I agree Pete, but it appears that manh of those who will make the decisions about going forwards are in denial.
 
Pete Burrett said:
Bloody hell! If a change in share price in the space of a week allows you to retire, you must have a helluva portfolio. Good on ya.
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It’ll need more than a couple of days to help it along, but there does seem a new optimism which could well result in markets doing really well.
I’m looking to the future. As I mentioned a hung parliament would have been a terrible thing for the markets in my view. The uncertainty seems to be out of the way.
Hopefully, next year I can get back to watching football on a regular basis and only being a short drive away.
 
Foley said:
I agree Pete, but it appears that manh of those who will make the decisions about going forwards are in denial.
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Yep....Labour are screwed until the whole Labour movement own the magnitude of this defeat and accept they have set the wrong course (starting with electing the wrong Milliband nearly a decade ago - fun fact: Ed Millbands margin of victory then was LESS than the Brexit referendum!) and are currently unelectable. The Jonathan Pie video posted by @Essexyellows above is absolutely spot on. Until they get out of their Social Media, Guardian/Islington bubble, their irrelevance to everyone else will only fester and spread.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
It no longer has one beyond making narcissistic fools on social media feel as though they’re superior. The Labour Party has become the hip new accessory for the Twitter and Instagram generation, aimed primarily at people under the age of 30 who want to see who can shout loudest about being the most progressive and liberal, or as they often refer to such things nowadays, ‘woke’. It’s been turned into a fashion statement for a generation that holds little value for anything, as they’ve been raised in a digital world where everything is free and available at the touch of a button, and reality is whatever it is that they choose to make it. As a result, they will almost certainly not get back into power until at least the 2030’s.
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I trust weren’t any recently signed up narcissistic momentum outrider fools on the Yellows Forum General Election Thread, just die hard OUFC fans who popped over from the matchday thread every now and then to comment on Boris, Jeremy & Jo.;)
 
Emily Thornberry is suing Caroline Flint over reported comments that Lady Nugee made that Flint won't retract.
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