National News Official 2019 General Election Thread

Canterburyexile

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The position regarding being tough on violent and sexual offending will inevitably be linked to a high profile violent offence committed by someone recently released from prison. And the general view of the man on the street (and many on here) is to lock them up and throw away the key. So on this subject, and this alone, Johnson's position will have public support, which will strengthen his position.

Do I agree? No. Do I think that there has been a huge lack of respect on all sides? Yes. But sadly, this in irrelevant to many of the electorate who mirror the anger of the Daily Mail and others in wanting vengeance.
I think if it was another conservative leader in another election you might well be right. Johnson’s cover is blown now though, even to many Tory voters. This is being seen for what it is.
 

Scotchegg

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I think if it was another conservative leader in another election you might well be right. Johnson’s cover is blown now though, even to many Tory voters. This is being seen for what it is.
I wish that were true. But I think that politics have become very black and white, and in a straight fight between Johnson and Corbyn, Johnson will come out on top.
 

YellowTaxi

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It’s interesting isn’t it? We have one politician that can’t go out in public, who is loathed everywhere he goes, and that despite a friendly media won’t even be interviewed by the bloke who chairs the right wing magazine he used to edit .

He has a record of incompetence and corruption- he was fired twice for lying, people who worked with him say he is not fit for high office, he threatened a journalist, he helped a young female associate get a 100 grand grant she was utterly unqualified for and wasted 50 million pounds of public money on an unbuilt Garden Bridge With millions going to his mates.

His racism- in articles he wrote and published-would mean he would rightly be banned from The Kassam Stadium if he had said these things out loud. Nobody trusts him, or believes in his vision for the country-his only plan is to get re-elected- and laughably day he’ll” get Brexit Done” which any serious politician knows is impossible in the way and the timescale he claims.

He’s taken big donations from Russian oligarchs, and gets paid a quarter of a million pounds a year by a national newspaper.

The other politician seems happy speaking to ordinary people, claims minimum expenses, has a vision for the country which deals with the key issues facing the country, poverty, schools, housing, climate change.
 

carefreeoufc

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I definitely don’t want Johnson in power but let’s not pretend Corbyn is some sort of angel/messiah. Corbyn (as do other members of his front bench) refuses to be interviewed by Nick Ferrari and James O’Brian on LBC.

He has refused on multiple occasions to apologise for anti Semitic behaviour within the party he leads. His manifesto has been quoted as being undeliverable based on his current costings/methods to raise funds. It’s not uncommon for him to lose his temper when dealing with difficult questions posed by journalists. He’s presided over probably the weakest opposition party in my lifetime. His party attempted to remove the Deputy Leader through fairly back handed means.

Dont get me wrong I think he’s a better alternative than Johnson but not by a long shot which is why this entire election and politics in this country is so depressing.
 

YellowTaxi

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I’m glad you agree that Corbyn is better than Johnson.

Personally I think not being interviewed by a radio station that employs Nigel Farage as a shock jock is perfectly reasonable.

Corbyn has apologised many times for antisemitism in the Labour Party. The Conservatives openly make antisemitic remarks in the House of Commons

Talking of antisemitism-here’s Boris Johnson -let’s imagine how the media would respond if Corbyn has said this...

 
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Gary Baldi

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“Same old Labour, same old lies. We'll all be fleeced for their own vanity projects.”

I’m not sure I’d classify properly funding the police, NHS, education system and ending homelessness as well as fully commiting to a green economy as vanity projects.
Think about it. Idealogical privatisations (regardless of appropriateness), plus other goodies such as free tuition fees, reduced rail fairs, etc that are a great for perception and bribery of the voters, but come at an incredible price that they are saying will be low but we all know it's a pack of lies. It's pure political vanity over and above the short term priorities of the UK. The Tories do this, but have been more restrained for once.

Sadly, the proposed "green economy" is a socialist political vanity project too.
 

Canterburyexile

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I agree with some of the points in the previous few posts. Corbyn has his faults and clearly there are isolated elements of the Labour Party that have hijacked the legitimate criticism of the state of Israel to express anti Semitic views. And it’s not enough to point the finger at the tories and larger problem they clearly have with islamaphobia and racism in general. The labour response to complaints has been indecisive and inconsistent. That’s not good enough. The recent comments by the chief rabbi however are clumsy and laughably partisan.

However, for me, the biggest difference between the two men is one of authenticity. Corbyn has spent his entire political career fighting injustice and supporting the marginalised. This is the precise reason why he is portrayed by the right wing media as some kind of ultra left wing agitator, when actually if you look at his past record he’s pretty much been on the right side of future public opinion and future political decision every single time. Johnson however, is a different beast. A privileged opportunist, capable and enthusiastically committed to saying or doing whatever is required to win power. Massively dishonest, and leaving a trail of misconduct, shady dealing and broken or manipulated promises in every single position he has ever held.

Nows there’s an argument for having a mendacious snake at the helm. Useful on the international stage, right? The trouble is that Johnson actually isn’t very good at it. And our allies and enemies have his measure.

Only one option for me, regardless of Brexit. A vote for the tories is a vote for food banks, homeless folk freezing to death, the continued privatisation of the nhs, the continued privatisation police & criminal justice service and the cynical exploitation of the tax system to make the rich even richer at the expense of the poor.

As a southern, middle class, small business owner, I might be better off voting Tory. Millions of others won’t be though and our country deserves far better. Interesting how brexit is being pushed down the agenda now isn’t it? I nearly voted leave actually. I don’t like empires or super states and I thought about whether a vote to leave might actually usher in a positive fundamental change to how we conduct politics in the country. Then I remembered the tories and the media stranglehold their friends have. 😂 A vote for Labour now is a genuine opportunity to make a lasting positive change to how we allow ourselves to be governed and how we treat each other. And you know that if we then have a second brexit referendum on those kind of terms. I might well vote for it.
 

Canterburyexile

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Think about it. Idealogical privatisations (regardless of appropriateness), plus other goodies such as free tuition fees, reduced rail fairs, etc that are a great for perception and bribery of the voters, but come at an incredible price that they are saying will be low but we all know it's a pack of lies. It's pure political vanity over and above the short term priorities of the UK. The Tories do this, but have been more restrained for once.

Sadly, the proposed "green economy" is a socialist political vanity project too.
I disagree with most of your post. Can you provide any evidence for any of your comments, particularly around the inappropriateness of the deprivatisations that have been proposed and also around why you think that it’s ‘bribery’ to make higher education open to all?
 

Gary Baldi

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I disagree with most of your post. Can you provide any evidence for any of your comments, particularly around the inappropriateness of the deprivatisations that have been proposed and also around why you think that it’s ‘bribery’ to make higher education open to all?
This is the point where I then pointlessly sneer, dig and berate you and move the topic on. Is that ok?

There is no need to make tertiary education free for all, it's not broken and the associated cost to the country is significant, especially alongside other projects Labour want to do too. Other than taking care of the student vote like last time because it's popular with that group (then Corbyn backed out), what is the point of it? The fact Corbyn dithered over writing off current student debt is ironic since he was very loose with other policies.

Similarly, the scale of privatisations, as I and others have discussed and linked to already, comes with significant cost to me and you, with little tangible benefit to doing it all so quickly and so hard. It's pure far left ideology and vanity, and regardless of what is going on in the world outside the UK. It makes a massive assumption about the bond markets that I'm sure you will agree are incredibly naive.
 

Gary Baldi

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I agree with some of the points in the previous few posts. Corbyn has his faults and clearly there are isolated elements of the Labour Party that have hijacked the legitimate criticism of the state of Israel to express anti Semitic views. And it’s not enough to point the finger at the tories and larger problem they clearly have with islamaphobia and racism in general. The labour response to complaints has been indecisive and inconsistent. That’s not good enough. The recent comments by the chief rabbi however are clumsy and laughably partisan.

However, for me, the biggest difference between the two men is one of authenticity. Corbyn has spent his entire political career fighting injustice and supporting the marginalised. This is the precise reason why he is portrayed by the right wing media as some kind of ultra left wing agitator, when actually if you look at his past record he’s pretty much been on the right side of future public opinion and future political decision every single time. Johnson however, is a different beast. A privileged opportunist, capable and enthusiastically committed to saying or doing whatever is required to win power. Massively dishonest, and leaving a trail of misconduct, shady dealing and broken or manipulated promises in every single position he has ever held.

Nows there’s an argument for having a mendacious snake at the helm. Useful on the international stage, right? The trouble is that Johnson actually isn’t very good at it. And our allies and enemies have his measure.

Only one option for me, regardless of Brexit. A vote for the tories is a vote for food banks, homeless folk freezing to death, the continued privatisation of the nhs, the continued privatisation police & criminal justice service and the cynical exploitation of the tax system to make the rich even richer at the expense of the poor.

As a southern, middle class, small business owner, I might be better off voting Tory. Millions of others won’t be though and our country deserves far better. Interesting how brexit is being pushed down the agenda now isn’t it? I nearly voted leave actually. I don’t like empires or super states and I thought about whether a vote to leave might actually usher in a positive fundamental change to how we conduct politics in the country. Then I remembered the tories and the media stranglehold their friends have. 😂 A vote for Labour now is a genuine opportunity to make a lasting positive change to how we allow ourselves to be governed and how we treat each other. And you know that if we then have a second brexit referendum on those kind of terms. I might well vote for it.
If they had his measure, how did Boris and his team manage to get the EU to budge on the backstop when they said it wouldn't happen?

Just a point on foodbanks, they were first introduced under Labour, but the coalition govt allowed them to publicised, hence why they became more known in the past 9 years than they were previously.
 

Paul Cannell

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Think about it. Idealogical privatisations (regardless of appropriateness), plus other goodies such as free tuition fees, reduced rail fairs, etc that are a great for perception and bribery of the voters,

Sadly, the proposed "green economy" is a socialist political vanity project too.
Please can you provide a source or some detail of what Labour will be privatising?
 

Canterburyexile

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This is the point where I then pointlessly sneer, dig and berate you and move the topic on. Is that ok?

There is no need to make tertiary education free for all, it's not broken and the associated cost to the country is significant, especially alongside other projects Labour want to do too. Other than taking care of the student vote like last time because it's popular with that group (then Corbyn backed out), what is the point of it? The fact Corbyn dithered over writing off current student debt is ironic since he was very loose with other policies.

Similarly, the scale of privatisations, as I and others have discussed and linked to already, comes with significant cost to me and you, with little tangible benefit to doing it all so quickly and so hard. It's pure far left ideology and vanity, and regardless of what is going on in the world outside the UK. It makes a massive assumption about the bond markets that I'm sure you will agree are incredibly naive.
Sure thing! Is it ok if I relentlessly point out the inaccuracies in your arguments, label you as self centred and then finally call you a racist or something? 😆😉

The point of making higher education available to all is one of equality. https://www.ucas.com/file/197261/download?token=yGrM_eUZ
Note the difference in Scotland...

as far as privatisation is concerned, I was thinking about this earlier. Can you name me one major British example of privatisation where outcomes for the customer were demonstrably cheaper and better. I couldn’t think of one, but that’s not to say one doesn't exist.
 

Canterburyexile

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If they had his measure, how did Boris and his team manage to get the EU to budge on the backstop when they said it wouldn't happen?

Just a point on foodbanks, they were first introduced under Labour, but the coalition govt allowed them to publicised, hence why they became more known in the past 9 years than they were previously.
Johnson is a busted flush in Europe. They’ve budged on the backstop to put him under pressure at home. And it’s worked.

I’m not sure what your point is about food banks. Have they increased exponentially under the conservatives or not?
 

YellowTaxi

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Don’t confuse poor Gary with facts and reasoned arguments- he hasn’t come across them before as there aren’t any in the Daily Express.
 

Marked Ox

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I disagree with most of your post. Can you provide any evidence for any of your comments, particularly around the inappropriateness of the deprivatisations that have been proposed and also around why you think that it’s ‘bribery’ to make higher education open to all?
Hahahaha, good luck with that.
 
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