National News Official 2019 General Election Thread

If I recall correctly, the South Korea trade deal was done on the basis of no access to their healthcare system, so while of course the US would love us ...

You don't.

"South Korea has agreed to change its pharmaceutical reimbursement policy for innovative drugs to give fair treatment to United States exports by the end of this year, consistent with its KORUS obligations."

The White House.
 
Another day, another anti-Semitism brouhaha around the Labour party - this one, sounds like an uncorroborated mess/smear but the homophobia sounds more likely. After Gideon Bull and Jonathan Friedman being stitched up by a "Labour" source yesterday, both main parties have had a hard couple of days.

Drunk politician may or may not have sung a song over a year ago.

Think you mean Jonathan Freedland - Know it’s hard to get those names right.


Just wait till you hear what Boris Johnson accidentally writes in newspapers or Jacob Rees Mogg accidentally says in Parliament.

Or could it be that like many Conservative politicians you don’t give a s**t about racism except as a stick to attack the left with.

Talking of Corbyn’s house
 
It always makes me a little uneasy when the standard rhetoric is the parties wanting/needing to be 'in power'.
It’s always ultimately been that way for the parties, but what they’ve done now is get the public onside with that mindset in a massive way, and got people to focus on their opinion not losing the argument rather than asking themselves why they even hold that opinion in the first place. Or quite often, IF that is really their opinion at all. It’s creating a society full of sociopaths where people laugh at and attack people on the other side of the fence, rather than view them as a human being who simply feels differently to them. We are now willing to overlook massively immoral stances and in some cases positively illegal activities, for which some politicians should be in jail, purely to jeer and snarl and scream in the faces of people who don’t think exactly the same as we do.

The general public can control this and shift the climate but almost nobody wants to, because they’ve got a taste for blood and would rather have a punch up with their fellow nobodies while the people driving it all from Westminster laugh at how pathetically idiotic we are, and go about doing whatever the hell they like without fear of being collared for it.
 
It’s always ultimately been that way for the parties, but what they’ve done now is get the public onside with that mindset in a massive way, and got people to focus on their opinion not losing the argument rather than asking themselves why they even hold that opinion in the first place. Or quite often, IF that is really their opinion at all. It’s creating a society full of sociopaths where people laugh at and attack people on the other side of the fence, rather than view them as a human being who simply feels differently to them. We are now willing to overlook massively immoral stances and in some cases positively illegal activities, for which some politicians should be in jail, purely to jeer and snarl and scream in the faces of people who don’t think exactly the same as we do.

The general public can control this and shift the climate but almost nobody wants to, because they’ve got a taste for blood and would rather have a punch up with their fellow nobodies while the people driving it all from Westminster laugh at how pathetically idiotic we are, and go about doing whatever the hell they like without fear of being collared for it.

Exactly. The parties used to have to shift their policies to match the feelings of society. But now it feels like there are extremely polarised factions of society due to having to "pick a camp" and defend it vehemently.

Ultimately, it seems like the biggest sign of weakness these days is the changing of ones mind.

"If the facts are right, then these guys are wrong. And I've aligned myself so strongly to them that I can't back down from it. So the facts are wrong. Or, at the very least, I need to find something to validate my opinion that the other guys are more wrong."
 
Ultimately, it seems like the biggest sign of weakness these days is the changing of ones mind.

"If the facts are right, then these guys are wrong. And I've aligned myself so strongly to them that I can't back down from it. So the facts are wrong. Or, at the very least, I need to find something to validate my opinion that the other guys are more wrong."
If you change your opinion then you’re backing down. They think you’re stupid, that’s why they’re saying you’re wrong. You’re not stupid are you? You’re not changing your mind, surely? That’s a surrender. True British warriors don’t surrender. Are you a coward? You’re not a coward, are you? Are you betraying us? Sure sounds like you are. We thought you were in it to win it, to make things great again. But you’re just a traitor if you change your position or open your mind in the light of evidence. Remember - your opinion is worth as much as anybody else’s facts. Can they REALLY prove anything anyway? Sounds fake to me. They’re just lying to prevent us reaching and achieving greatness, together. Do it for your ancestors, for your kids, your grandkids. WIN. BEAT THEM.

The country is gone.
 
Drunk politician may or may not have sung a song over a year ago.

Think you mean Jonathan Freedland - Know it’s hard to get those names right.


Just wait till you hear what Boris Johnson accidentally writes in newspapers or Jacob Rees Mogg accidentally says in Parliament.

Or could it be that like many Conservative politicians you don’t give a s**t about racism except as a stick to attack the left with.

Talking of Corbyn’s house
There is a now a WhatsApp conversation from someone who wishes to remain anonymous complaining about the bantz when it occured - now I am on the side of we all make mistakes in this and its a brouhaha that distracts from the human imperfections we all have. Sadly, a Tory candidate made comments 10 years ago on Facebook that bit him on the backside recently too. But as such, the cancel culture that is in place, Carden needs to step down, ignoring the fact he's actually a decent guy who made a mistake.

Regardless of this, you are using whataboutism and I have been heavily criticised for it. As such, please refrain. Come on @chuckbert why aren't giving them jip for it? ;) (y)
 
Exactly. The parties used to have to shift their policies to match the feelings of society. But now it feels like there are extremely polarised factions of society due to having to "pick a camp" and defend it vehemently.

Ultimately, it seems like the biggest sign of weakness these days is the changing of ones mind.

"If the facts are right, then these guys are wrong. And I've aligned myself so strongly to them that I can't back down from it. So the facts are wrong. Or, at the very least, I need to find something to validate my opinion that the other guys are more wrong."
To quote Scott Adams. We live in a post-truth world, where the facts are meaningless. Sadly, such as Brexit happened and then Trump did, the abuse and vitriol went up and such meant the middle ground has been vacated because in some respects, so it's become deeply personal to those who voted for the former or the latter to not back down.

Social media has a big part of play in this, amplifying the abuse and decreasing the value of facts, over being the first to report it and the coverage that ensues.
 
the Prime Minister is a liar, whose own family don’t trust him. He’s funded by Russian oligarchs wasted 50 million quid on an unbuilt bridge, handed a hundred grand to an unqualified woman in her twenties who was giving him technology lessons. He was fired by a newspaper for lying. He doesn’t know how many children he has and he worked with a criminal to threaten a journalist.

Don’t blame social media
 
the Prime Minister is a liar, whose own family don’t trust him. He’s funded by Russian oligarchs wasted 50 million quid on an unbuilt bridge, handed a hundred grand to an unqualified woman in her twenties who was giving him technology lessons. He was fired by a newspaper for lying. He doesn’t know how many children he has and he worked with a criminal to threaten a journalist.

Yes, but apart from that he's a jolly good chap.
 
the Prime Minister is a liar, whose own family don’t trust him. He’s funded by Russian oligarchs wasted 50 million quid on an unbuilt bridge, handed a hundred grand to an unqualified woman in her twenties who was giving him technology lessons. He was fired by a newspaper for lying. He doesn’t know how many children he has and he worked with a criminal to threaten a journalist.

Don’t blame social media
Who said I did! You're making things up again
 
To quote Scott Adams. We live in a post-truth world, where the facts are meaningless....

Social media has a big part of play in this, amplifying the abuse and decreasing the value of facts, over being the first to report it and the coverage that ensues.
Either you’ve got the memory of a goldfish or you’re as big a liar as Boris Johnson.
 
Keith Vaz has "retired"................... he`ll still get the pension then..... :rolleyes:

That aside the whole petty campaigning and "micro-sound-bite" politics on both sides is rapidly killing off any proper engagement with the electorate.
 
So in order to counter the divisive “ both sides” debate which you both claim is harming debate I trust you will both agree that Johnson’s easily verifiable record of lies, threats and “ lack of moral substance of any kind” makes him unfit to be Prime Minister.

Thanks. Really appreciate the way you’ve reached out.
 

Well that’s Jo Swinson outed as a Eurosceptic posing as a staunch remainer. So that means we’ve got:

Johnson: A remainer pretending to be a leaver to further his own career.

Corbyn: A leaver pretending to be a ‘soft remainer’ who also wants to sit on the fence to further his own career.

Swinson: A eurosceptic who has been openly in favour of an in/out referendum pretending to be a passionate remainer to further her own career.

And then there’s the general public just battering the hell out of each other 24/7 about who is a loser, an idiot or both.

We’re so screwed.
 
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