General Non-League/'lesser' leagues - not looked at enough?

[OxShireWest]

Given the sheer depth of the English football pyramid and multitude of success stories of players coming out of it (Vardy, Antonio, Hart, Maddison etc), is it being massively overlooked by Football League clubs? Are football league clubs also overlooking potential talent in 'lesser' leagues (NI, Ireland etc)?

It's easy and understandable to look at the numbers a player is putting up in these leagues and putting it down to a perceived lack of quality in them, but given the sheer number of players currently playing in the professional leagues who have come from non-league, maybe that assertion isn't always an accurate one.

I personally find it baffling that Football League clubs don't raid non-league and other 'lesser' leagues more often. There is no guarantee any signing will work, but non-league offers a rare chance at truly low-risk signings. Low transfer fee (if any), low wages - is there a less 'risky' transfer situation in football? It's probably one of the few transfer scenarios in modern football where the club holds the majority of the power. Where usually clubs are grovelling and throwing around money to convince their transfer targets to join them over anyone else, here most players are desperate to get the deal done in hope of their big break.

Even looking beyond non-league to Ireland - Matthew Shelvin has bagged over 15 goals in each of his last 2 seasons for Coleraine, including 23 goals and 6 assists in 37 starts last season when Coleraine finished 6th out of 12. At still only 24, are players like him worth the punt?

 

[SteMerritt]

Whilst agreeing with your general point, the 'low wages' angle isn't strictly true. A lot of the talented players in non-league will either already be on a pro contract in the Conference, or are being paid as semi-pro whilst also picking up a normal wage outside of the game. I know of a few players who have turned down pro at league clubs because the sums didn't add up with what they were already earning.

 

[OxShireWest]

Whilst agreeing with your general point, the 'low wages' angle isn't strictly true. A lot of the talented players in non-league will either already be on a pro contract in the Conference, or are being paid as semi-pro whilst also picking up a normal wage outside of the game. I know of a few players who have turned down pro at league clubs because the sums didn't add up with what they were already earning.

By 'low wage' I mean in comparison to current players at the club or what you would expect to pay a player signing from a fellow EFL club (or Prem club on loan). Obviously it'll still be a considerable sum for us non-footballer porpers, but relatively low in football terms.

Also worth noting the younger the player the less you'll have to pay them (as a general rule), as well as the fact money may not be the deciding factor - many may make the move solely due to the increased likelihood of furthering their football career. It'll be turning a hobby into a full-time career for many!

 

[Bath Yellow]

Looking at the clubs now in the Conference, especially ex-league, to me the Conference now looks as strong as league 2, with a few exceptions who i am afraid like Oxford City for example who are going to find it extremely hard to stay there, i of course like we all do wish them well. Its about time they made the Conference league 3, with at least 3 up and down.
Will be interesting to see how Notts County and Wrexham fare next season, especially Wrexham with their big money men as backers..

 

[Oxford57]

Shotton and Smithers came out of part time non league football, can’t mention the club as it brings back too many memories of the wrong kind

 

[Sarge]

Given the sheer depth of the English football pyramid and multitude of success stories of players coming out of it (Vardy, Antonio, Hart, Maddison etc), is it being massively overlooked by Football League clubs? Are football league clubs also overlooking potential talent in 'lesser' leagues (NI, Ireland etc)?

It's easy and understandable to look at the numbers a player is putting up in these leagues and putting it down to a perceived lack of quality in them, but given the sheer number of players currently playing in the professional leagues who have come from non-league, maybe that assertion isn't always an accurate one.

I personally find it baffling that Football League clubs don't raid non-league and other 'lesser' leagues more often. There is no guarantee any signing will work, but non-league offers a rare chance at truly low-risk signings. Low transfer fee (if any), low wages - is there a less 'risky' transfer situation in football? It's probably one of the few transfer scenarios in modern football where the club holds the majority of the power. Where usually clubs are grovelling and throwing around money to convince their transfer targets to join them over anyone else, here most players are desperate to get the deal done in hope of their big break.

Even looking beyond non-league to Ireland - Matthew Shelvin has bagged over 15 goals in each of his last 2 seasons for Coleraine, including 23 goals and 6 assists in 37 starts last season when Coleraine finished 6th out of 12. At still only 24, are players like him worth the punt?

you say youre a ST holder , have you been actually paying any attention over the past few seasons? as in any attention at all ? ...... Gavin Whyte, Mark Sykes , Rob Atkinson, McNally, all have been and gone moved higher up the pyramid ..... Hoban & Cooper (who both didnt didn't work out returned to' Ireland) .... currently at the club McGinty & Smyth, and thats to give some recent examples - which of course you already know about, don't you?

on another note, hows the cycling going, practicing for when we move to the triangle, and cycling , as in on your bike

 

[OxShireWest]

Looking at the clubs now in the Conference, especially ex-league, to me the Conference now looks as strong as league 2, with a few exceptions who i am afraid like Oxford City for example who are going to find it extremely hard to stay there, i of course like we all do wish them well. Its about time they made the Conference league 3, with at least 3 up and down.
Will be interesting to see how Notts County and Wrexham fare next season, especially Wrexham with their big money men as backers..

I agree, I think the gap between non-league and League 2 is actually getting smaller by the year.

I'd like to see Oxford City do well but I fear you may be right. Although, if they keep hold of most of their players it may not be too bad - they have a good core to their squad.

 

[OxShireWest]

you say youre a ST holder , have you been actually paying any attention over the past few seasons? as in any attention at all ? ...... Gavin Whyte, Mark Sykes , Rob Atkinson, McNally, all have been and gone moved higher up the pyramid ..... Hoban & Cooper (who both didnt didn't work out returned to' Ireland) .... currently at the club McGinty & Smyth, and thats to give some recent examples - which of course you already know about, don't you?

on another note, hows the cycling going, practicing for when we move to the triangle, and cycling , as in on your bike

You come across as quite bitter, Sarge.

But anyway... yes I'm fully aware. You've listed 8 players during a period in which we've had hundreds come and go.

If anything, you've inadvertently proven point. The few times we've done exactly what I'm suggesting isn't done enough, we've made plenty of cash and most have been a success!

 

[Sarge]

You come across as quite bitter, Sarge.

But anyway... yes I'm fully aware. You've listed 8 players during a period in which we've had hundreds come and go.

If anything, you've inadvertently proven point. The few times we've done exactly what I'm suggesting isn't done enough, we've made plenty of cash and most have been a success!

I'm not bitter, merely pointing out what you were suggesting was already in place and has been implemented and operated with some success for some seasons now. So I found it rather odd you were advocating an approach to bringing players in, that is already happening.

At the same time our academy has began to produce young talent capable of rising through the ranks, I do like to see local lads make it through to play for the first team of their home town club.

 

[BD Yellow]

Shotton and Smithers came out of part time non league football, can’t mention the club as it brings back too many memories of the wrong kind

Nuneaton

 

[holdsteady]

Apparently Scunthorpe have signed a couple of players already and our paying them £1500 a week, despite being relegated to the Conference North.

 

[Common Villager]

Whilst agreeing with your general point, the 'low wages' angle isn't strictly true. A lot of the talented players in non-league will either already be on a pro contract in the Conference, or are being paid as semi-pro whilst also picking up a normal wage outside of the game. I know of a few players who have turned down pro at league clubs because the sums didn't add up with what they were already earning.

Stuart Beavon turned us down as he was earning more at Didcot and working part time as a painter and decorator than what we offered him.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

The problem these days is the pressure on managers to succeed. It is a risk taking on a non league player over an established league player or a youth player from a higher club.
I feel this forum would be in melt down if we signed a prospect from the national league south.
In fact we did sign a prospect from non league (can’t remember his name) from Warrington town just last season.

As others have said as well, these players aren’t on peanuts like they used to be. Take Chester for example, their players earn 400-600 quid a week and only train 2-3 times a week so work other jobs, they will earn more than some of our fringe players are on.

 

[Jimmycarterxi]

Peterborough always used to sign on some talented non league players……Aaron McLean for example. We did well with players like Dunkley and Atkinson but there’s always the chance you could sign a Jonty Smith.

 

[Marked Ox]

Apparently Scunthorpe have signed a couple of players already and our paying them £1500 a week, despite being relegated to the Conference North.

New owner splurge.

 

[OX14]

Stuart Beavon turned us down as he was earning more at Didcot and working part time as a painter and decorator than what we offered him.

Lots of players from Oxford city in a similar boat where they have been offered pro contracts elsewhere but when it comes down to weighing it up they were better off staying at Oxford city part time. Being part time offers the player the opportunity to work/run a business alongside playing football. This not only can be more beneficial but the player has something to fall back on if their footballing career ends.

I believe Oxford city will be 1 of only 3 or 4 in the national League part time next season, but that doesn't mean they are nailed on for relegation, they have been defying all odds the past 3 seasons where they have finished 1st (COVID halted league at the time and voided the season) , 4th and then 3rd this season all with a budget matching the bottom half of NLS.

I've watched City a few times this season and Zac McEachran is the one that could comfortably be a league 2 player.

 

[Jimmycarterxi]

I’ve taken my boy up to City a couple of times this season, McEachran looks a really good player who loves playing there. I’ve no idea how ambitious he is to play at a higher level but I’d be surprised if he left in the summer but that could all depend on where his current team mates and manager are playing next season.

 

[Essexyellows]

The days of players working up/progressing up the pyramid have changed now the top of said pyramid is a global business.

Far fewer professionals will start at a non-league club and then climb the ladder.

Clubs like us will unearth the occasional gem that won`t be around for long but it won`t be every season.

 

[OxShireWest]

Stuart Beavon turned us down as he was earning more at Didcot and working part time as a painter and decorator than what we offered him.

That wouldn't be the case anymore!

 

[OxShireWest]

The problem these days is the pressure on managers to succeed. It is a risk taking on a non league player over an established league player or a youth player from a higher club.
I feel this forum would be in melt down if we signed a prospect from the national league south.
In fact we did sign a prospect from non league (can’t remember his name) from Warrington town just last season.

As others have said as well, these players aren’t on peanuts like they used to be. Take Chester for example, their players earn 400-600 quid a week and only train 2-3 times a week so work other jobs, they will earn more than some of our fringe players are on.

Football isn't just about wages though. You have signing on fees, bonuses, lots of contracts include yearly wage rises and other incentives.

It's also a short career - you can't wait till you're 35 to take up a professional football career. You can always go back to painting, plumbing etc if football doesn't work out - you can't do that in reverse.