National News National Lockdown coming

I’m sure most people on here are absolutely willing Johnson to get things right and to get on top of this. Regardless of individuals political persuasions we all want this to end as quickly as possible! That said it’s very difficult to come up with a list of people (outside of his own government) who could have handled this much worse.

There were glaring errors right from the start and we’ve simply not got on top of them. It’s not helped that he’s built an army of yes men in his cabinet who are equally out of their depth!

Why are we still not enforcing mandatory quarantine on arrivals to the U.K. and why haven’t we for months?

Why do we still not have an effective test, track and trace system akin to other countries?

Why when cases were rising exponentially did Johnson continue to force the Christmas message?

Why did he delay with the last lockdown?

Why were schools forced to remain open when they reported an increase in transmission?
It can’t even be said that it’s hindsight because there are people on this forum with far less information than Johnson who have questioned his actions and have largely been proven right.

It’s an absolute shambles and thanks to the absolute mismanagement of the crisis public confidence has been eroded to such a state that people are doing what they want. We really need to hope that this vaccine proves to be effective because it’s quite clear that we have no other way of getting on top of this in the U.K.

Why do people generically blame "the government" when what we all need to do is incredibly simple

It doesn`t move. We move it. Treat everyone as though they have it and apply mitigation.

That`s it.... no more, no less.
 
Tell me how it’s incorrect.
In fact, don’t bother because to be fair, the whole Starmer / Johnson ‘who would do a better job’ debate is a tired one on this forum.
Apologies to the moderators , and anyone else tired of this debate, for starting the whole thing over again.
Two people already have! There are none as blind etc
 
Cassox, (AKA) TT, Truthteller, etc etc....I assume that you understand the definitions of 'context' and 'perspective'? Also, you might like to google "casual racism"
You are the personification of insipid hatred. Well done. I will arrange your meds.....
 
Why do people generically blame "the government" when what we all need to do is incredibly simple

It doesn`t move. We move it. Treat everyone as though they have it and apply mitigation.

That`s it.... no more, no less.
Is that right? We have a whole 'Covidiots' thread - I think *everyone* on here would say that the self-centeredness of some people has certainly not helped the situation. The fact that such idiots are being idiotic does not however excuse the government their slow, muddled, illogical, over-promising, under-delivering performance over the last nine months or so. Has everything they have done been bad - of course not, some of it has been very good. Could much of it have been ever so much better - yes, that is completely obvious to everyone.
 
I’m sure most people on here are absolutely willing Johnson to get things right and to get on top of this. Regardless of individuals political persuasions we all want this to end as quickly as possible! That said it’s very difficult to come up with a list of people (outside of his own government) who could have handled this much worse.

There were glaring errors right from the start and we’ve simply not got on top of them. It’s not helped that he’s built an army of yes men in his cabinet who are equally out of their depth!

Why are we still not enforcing mandatory quarantine on arrivals to the U.K. and why haven’t we for months?

Why do we still not have an effective test, track and trace system akin to other countries?

Why when cases were rising exponentially did Johnson continue to force the Christmas message?

Why did he delay with the last lockdown?

Why were schools forced to remain open when they reported an increase in transmission?
It can’t even be said that it’s hindsight because there are people on this forum with far less information than Johnson who have questioned his actions and have largely been proven right.

It’s an absolute shambles and thanks to the absolute mismanagement of the crisis public confidence has been eroded to such a state that people are doing what they want. We really need to hope that this vaccine proves to be effective because it’s quite clear that we have no other way of getting on top of this in the U.K.

Very well put. There’s no correct blueprint or plan for dealing with a pandemic. You’ll never have a perfect level of balancing the economy and public health in times like this but Johnson’s approach has been reactionary and swinging from ‘stay inside’ to ‘go out and spend’ back to ‘stay inside’ again and repeat a few times over.

One extra point to add to yours is that public compliance to measures is reflective of the trust in what the government is doing to combat the virus. Sweden*, for example, has high levels of public compliance. Their government encouraged but didn’t enforce changes of behaviour and the Swedes went along with it without too much fuss. Boris Johnson lost so much trust with the Dominic Cummings saga that it was not only the American-style libertarian shouts from some that got louder and louder. The scenes at London train stations on Saturday night were evidence of a public that had lost trust in what the government were asking people to do. People were and are doing their own thing now. Selfish we may say, but when trust has been eroded and there’s little faith left in the overall plan (if there is one as it seems to be made up as it goes), can you blame them?

*I’ll take the point that Sweden has actually fallen back in recent weeks and admitted that they have made mistakes too. No system is perfect and there’s has had flaws but it hasn’t had the boom and bust, stop and start, reactionary ‘approach’ we’ve had in England.
 
Boris Johnson lost so much trust with the Dominic Cummings saga that it was not only the American-style libertarian shouts from some that got louder and louder. The scenes at London train stations on Saturday night were evidence of a public that had lost trust in what the government were asking people to do.
It was a disaster for two main reasons:

1) It made people think, “Well if they are going to do what they want, I’m going to do what I want moving forward, and nobody can criticise or prosecute me for that.”

2) It made a number of people also think, “If this thing were really that serious then matey boy wouldn’t have happily gone swanning off to the other end of the country, so it’s probably a bloody great big con.”

The relationship between government and society is the same as any other, be it a parent or a boss at a place of work. Lie to people, sneer at them and act like an enormous hypocrite - especially in times of crisis - and you can’t expect them to respect, trust or listen to you in the future. That’s how it works - trust and respect is earned. That they basically turned around and went, “Dominic Cummings just loves his family more than you stinking plebs love yours - anybody who isn’t a monster would’ve done exactly what he did” was a moment deserving of infinitely more outrage. Heads should’ve rolled from one end of the M1 to the other.

That was the moment control was lost and anybody who thinks otherwise is wrong. Not everything in life is about opinions: sometimes there are simply facts. You can argue about the exact shade of green that applies to a blade of grass, but you can’t argue that said grass is anything else.
 
takes extraordinary delusion to believe that any alternative government, regardless of the colour of their rosette, would have handled things worse than this bunch of charlatans and con merchants. To genuinely believe such nonsense would be admitting that not only do we have one of the worst and most incompetent governments in the entire developed world, but that we have nobody better to offer.

I refuse to believe that. And I find it more than a little amusing that the people who do are simultaneously shouting at people to “believe in Britain” while dribbling down themselves. Irony doesn’t even cover it.
This is all in hindsight
Very well put. There’s no correct blueprint or plan for dealing with a pandemic. You’ll never have a perfect level of balancing the economy and public health in times like this but Johnson’s approach has been reactionary and swinging from ‘stay inside’ to ‘go out and spend’ back to ‘stay inside’ again and repeat a few times over.

One extra point to add to yours is that public compliance to measures is reflective of the trust in what the government is doing to combat the virus. Sweden*, for example, has high levels of public compliance. Their government encouraged but didn’t enforce changes of behaviour and the Swedes went along with it without too much fuss. Boris Johnson lost so much trust with the Dominic Cummings saga that it was not only the American-style libertarian shouts from some that got louder and louder. The scenes at London train stations on Saturday night were evidence of a public that had lost trust in what the government were asking people to do. People were and are doing their own thing now. Selfish we may say, but when trust has been eroded and there’s little faith left in the overall plan (if there is one as it seems to be made up as it goes), can you blame them?

*I’ll take the point that Sweden has actually fallen back in recent weeks and admitted that they have made mistakes too. No system is perfect and there’s has had flaws but it hasn’t had the boom and bust, stop and start, reactionary ‘approach’ we’ve had in England.
I agree with what you have written but the highlighted section that happened on Saturday wasn’t down to those people thinking of Cummings and what he did, that would have happened whether Cummings had done what he did or not do.
People panicked and I bet a fare few of them had the virus’s and have helped distributed the virus around the country, and this will go towards putting this country back into a another lockdown.
 
Had to do a bit of shopping in Didcot yesterday. (Yeah, yeah, part of the problem and all that)

Was very surprising to me, how given the proximity to tier 4, so many people just don't seem to get it.

No social distancing in queues. Shops having totally given up on the maximum occupancy numbers they were employing earlier in the year.

My snarling muscles, "Get away from me!", are exhausted today.
 
We are in Tier 4.

Mrs ZtH went for a walk around the village yesterday. She met a couple we haven't seen over lockdown, and had a socially distanced chat. They are older than us (late 60's at least), quiet, apparently sensible, pillars of the community, the wife is very civic minded (did a lot of work for the inmates at the nearby Yarls Wood immigration detention centre) - we have known them for the best part of 30 years.

They were soon discussing their Christmas plans - who they were having over for Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

What chance have we got?
 
We are in Tier 4.

Mrs ZtH went for a walk around the village yesterday. She met a couple we haven't seen over lockdown, and had a socially distanced chat. They are older than us (late 60's at least), quiet, apparently sensible, pillars of the community, the wife is very civic minded (did a lot of work for the inmates at the nearby Yarls Wood immigration detention centre) - we have known them for the best part of 30 years.

They were soon discussing their Christmas plans - who they were having over for Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

What chance have we got?

And that is the problem. We can blame the Government, and there were certainly mixed messages at the beginning. But no one can pretend for one second that the current message isn't explicitly clear.

Unfortunately we have a "created" a selfish society who only care about themselves.
 
While everyone is blaming people for having the odd person round there house, it’s looking very likely that this new variant has been spread through schools. The rise in cases from the low level we had then at coincides with kids going back, is it 4 million children mixing in then going home to mix with parents who go to work and spread it or is it Joan having Doris round for a cup of tea? I know which one my money is on.
 
no one can pretend for one second that the current message isn't explicitly clear.

Quite. Nobody should excuse what DC or other politicians did in the first or subsequent lockdowns, but surely by now enough messages and guidelines, whether ambiguous, inexact, short-sighted or just simply ill thought out, have been delivered that everyone knows what they ought to be doing to minimise the threat of contracting this virus and of passing it on to others.

The actions of some people are disingenuous at best and at worst show a cynical disregard for what needs to be done.
 
And that is the problem. We can blame the Government, and there were certainly mixed messages at the beginning. But no one can pretend for one second that the current message isn't explicitly clear.

Unfortunately we have a "created" a selfish society who only care about themselves.
Agreed, but it's not even just that. That particular couple have had health issues and are in the age group that is more vulnerable. There is one vaccine being used already and another more practical one imminently due for approval (hopefully!).
For their own selfish sakes (never mind that of their guests or anyone else in the village or society at large) why not hang on for a few weeks? It's not only selfish - it's stupid.
I think it was probably a good thing I wasn't on the walk with Mrs ZtH - I might well have exchanged words with those people...
 
Wouldn't bother. All you'll get is "You do you, i'll do me" and even more determination to follow through to prove themselves right.

Dont think we can complain about creating a selfish society when we voted in the Conservatives
 
Tell me how it’s incorrect.
In fact, don’t bother because to be fair, the whole Starmer / Johnson ‘who would do a better job’ debate is a tired one on this forum.
Apologies to the moderators , and anyone else tired of this debate, for starting the whole thing over again.
The ‘would Corbyn/Starmer/Other have done better’ discussion is a total irrelevance imho. The pertinent question is ‘Has this Government performed well’ and for me at least it’s moved from an early view that they were doing ok to one where they’ve been found wanting in many areas.

@Ryanbirdio makes a very valid point about the role of Cummings and BJ’s lack of action relating to this. The amount of sensible people that I heard saying ‘Well if he can do it......’ Trust and respect is hard won and easily lost.
 
While everyone is blaming people for having the odd person round there house, it’s looking very likely that this new variant has been spread through schools. The rise in cases from the low level we had then at coincides with kids going back, is it 4 million children mixing in then going home to mix with parents who go to work and spread it or is it Joan having Doris round for a cup of tea? I know which one my money is on.
It's not the odd person it's the odd family and families often have kids.
 
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