General Napa

thinking .... 50 years ago (1969) a 'challenge' such as Naismith's on Napa wouldve triggered a vastly different reaction from OUFC players.... Big Ron aka Tank, captured for posterity 'remonstrating' with the referee during a match at the Manor circa '69

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That’s a big assumption. It all depends on the type of break and where it is in relation to the blood supply and what method is used to help reunite the bone.

No, not really an assumption, more the sum total of 5 years undergrad and 15 years postgrad experience, including a fair amount of orthopaedics.

Agree re: blood supply (but this is a leg, not a scaphoid or talus) but not the method of fixation - bone will (almost always) heal to bone, it’s just a matter of ensuring correct healing position.

As an example I had an extremely bad break and it took nearly 2 years to heal and I nearly ended up having the leg amputated when the bone wouldn’t unite. Fortunately I managed to pay for pioneering stem cell surgery privately, along with an alternative method of fixation which saved the day.

Yours is an unfortunate example but I’m happy to say non-union is absolutely extreme and rare consequence of a fracture and the likelihood of a good outcome is massively increased in a young athletic lad with good access to daily rehab.

Glad you had a good outcome with stem cells. Their use remains extremely controversial and unproven and, as you know, not a first line treatment for anything.

I join with you in wishing young Malachi the speediest recovery.
 
As Robbo said to the linesman (assistant ref!!) - "it's your job to protect the players and you've f*****g failed that boy. You should be f*****g ashamed!"

He then said to Faz about the fourth official - "keep that useless c**t away from me before I get in anymore f*****g trouble!"

I know this was the thing that some disliked about him last year, but I'd hate to see Robbo lose that passion and fight even if I spend 2 hours telling my little girl to close her ears!!!
That passion makes me hard. I love that. Shame about the circumstances but more of that passion by the bucket load, please.
 
No, not really an assumption, more the sum total of 5 years undergrad and 15 years postgrad experience, including a fair amount of orthopaedics.

Agree re: blood supply (but this is a leg, not a scaphoid or talus) but not the method of fixation - bone will (almost always) heal to bone, it’s just a matter of ensuring correct healing position.



Yours is an unfortunate example but I’m happy to say non-union is absolutely extreme and rare consequence of a fracture and the likelihood of a good outcome is massively increased in a young athletic lad with good access to daily rehab.

Glad you had a good outcome with stem cells. Their use remains extremely controversial and unproven and, as you know, not a first line treatment for anything.

I join with you in wishing young Malachi the speediest recovery.
Sometimes it is a real joy to read someone's riposte!
This is, without a doubt, one of those occasions.
 
No, not really an assumption, more the sum total of 5 years undergrad and 15 years postgrad experience, including a fair amount of orthopaedics.

Agree re: blood supply (but this is a leg, not a scaphoid or talus) but not the method of fixation - bone will (almost always) heal to bone, it’s just a matter of ensuring correct healing position.



Yours is an unfortunate example but I’m happy to say non-union is absolutely extreme and rare consequence of a fracture and the likelihood of a good outcome is massively increased in a young athletic lad with good access to daily rehab.

Glad you had a good outcome with stem cells. Their use remains extremely controversial and unproven and, as you know, not a first line treatment for anything.

I join with you in wishing young Malachi the speediest recovery.
With respect your thoughts here are misguided and you really shouldn’t be making assumptions based on averages. I met with several orthopaedic consultants, including one considered to be one of the leading experts in the UK who I have quoted in my response.

Legs can be very difficult to unite dependant on where the fracture is. The closer it is to the distal end of the tibia the more difficult it becomes to unite the fracture. Trust me when you are told you may lose your leg, you tend to sit up and take notice. I left no stone unturned and researched the subject and met with several experts in the field. Around 15% of people with that type of break fail to get the bone to reunite. Great if you’re part of the 85% who do, horrific if you are part of the 15%. I’m quoting factual medical stats here.

I’ll finish by saying another of the experts said I was extremely fortunate for the bone to unite in the end. As a medical professional I would urge you to avoid making assumptions.
 
Sometimes it is a real joy to read someone's riposte!
This is, without a doubt, one of those occasions.
Not really. As is often the case with junior medical people they believe the are an expert in every field. Personally I’ll stick with the advice given by several orthopaedic consultants, including a professor in the subject.

It is far more likely Napa’s injury is in a position that is more likely to heal than mine was. But it isn’t guaranteed. I don’t know for sure as I don’t know the extent of the injury any more than Big Cromby does.

Still let’s not let the facts get in the way.
 
Not really. As is often the case with junior medical people they believe the are an expert in every field. Personally I’ll stick with the advice given by several orthopaedic consultants, including a professor in the subject.

It is far more likely Napa’s injury is in a position that is more likely to heal than mine was. But it isn’t guaranteed. I don’t know for sure as I don’t know the extent of the injury any more than Big Cromby does.

Still let’s not let the facts get in the way.

> Junior Medical People

> 20 years experience

Pick one
 
How lucky we are that manager Karl and physio Any are at the club. Not many in their positions would have spent the time at the JR with Malachi. One of the main reasons the team playing so well is the close bond and supporting players and management.
 
Still let’s not let the facts get in the way.

Which “facts”...?

Most fractures do heal, especially when fixated. That’s why we fix them. That’s fact one.
God knows I wish I was still “junior” but I gave that up more than ten years ago. Fact two.

Anyways, don’t mean to be any more of a prick than usual. This is undoubtedly an unfortunate incident for Malachi but we CAN expect him to bounce back, and he’s in the very best possible hands. I shall assume the best, just as you have (very reasonably) assumed the worst, based on your own experiences.

We wish him all the very best.
 
Which “facts”...?

Most fractures do heal, especially when fixated. That’s why we fix them. That’s fact one.
God knows I wish I was still “junior” but I gave that up more than ten years ago. Fact two.

Anyways, don’t mean to be any more of a prick than usual. This is undoubtedly an unfortunate incident for Malachi but we CAN expect him to bounce back, and he’s in the very best possible hands. I shall assume the best, just as you have (very reasonably) assumed the worst, based on your own experiences.

We wish him all the very best.
Not at all, I haven’t assumed anything unlike you have.

In the first two pages of this article there were two examples from forum members that spelt out, from their own experiences, that not all breaks are equal and therefore someone should not make assumptions.

Your first response was a matter of fact that the bone will heal in 6 weeks. Your second response was then a subtle little row back on that and you started to use the term in extreme cases.

You’ve said you were involved in orthopaedics during your training to become a doctor, you haven’t said you went on to specialise in this area and therefore I assume you’re not an expert in orthopaedics. Unlike the countless orthopaedic consultants and a professor, considered to be one of the leading experts in the UK, who have told me differently over the past 5 years.

You have said the method of fixation has nothing to do with how likely a bone is to unite. Wrong, the fixation method can be the deciding factor. As an example a Ilizarov frame can actually prevent a bone healing, compared to a tibial nail which allows better weight bearing which is a well established key factor in bone healing. All Fixation methods have pros and cons of course.

And we haven’t even mentioned well known cases of footballers where their career has been ended due to a leg break.

I agree in the balance of probabilities, Napa will likely recover fully from his break. But it is NOT guaranteed, even if the bone does unite. I speak from personal experience where even when a bone does unite, other complications can mean the full use of the leg cannot be achieved. I used to play football, cycle competitively and even did a triathlon each year, none of which are possible now.

As I write this I’m waiting for my latest appointment with a leading specialist in sports injuries, specialising in lower leg breaks, at my local private hospital. It’s been 5 years and counting!

We all hope and expect Napa will have a better outcome though. That I can agree on.
 
From a purely anecdotal perspective, it does seem rare for footballers to retire early from leg breaks (not saying they come back as good as before, but that’s a different story)

It mainly seems to be serious knee injuries, or head injuries, which can cause footballers to retire young (or heart problems)

That said, there’s always risks - here’s hoping it’s less bad than we thought, it sets well, he heals quickly and we see him back in a few months.
 
KR re Napa in the OM ....


Fair play to Karl (and the physio) for doing that. Can you imagine Ferguson Jr doing the same for one of his players? I certainly can't.

It must be said it's pretty clear he's trying very hard to build a sense of togetherness amongst the players this season, which is something I don't think we've had for several years.
 
thinking .... 50 years ago (1969) a 'challenge' such as Naismith's on Napa wouldve triggered a vastly different reaction from OUFC players.... Big Ron aka Tank, captured for posterity 'remonstrating' with the referee during a match at the Manor circa '69

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Back in the eighties we had a couple of players who would have dished out their own retribution within about 10 minutes of the challenge! I bet Brannagan was sorely tempted but fair play to him for self control.
 
The amount of people on twitter saying it was 50/50 in the comments is mind-boggling (although I realise most of them are Peterborough fans).

How can one player sprinting towards the ball with a chance to connect with full force whilst the other struggles to regain their balance having been shoved over from behind be 50/50?

Do me a f*****g favour.
 
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