General More news re; stadium/training ground, thoughts?

[LondonRoader]

@LondonRoader

Colin was saying that every fan is important, but that some will look for different experiences and we need to cater for all. There will be fans who want a beer and a pie at half time, others might what a sit down meal before/after the game. His point was that both are important and should be accommodated.

The second point is one where I really think you are alone. Oxford Uniteds operating costs as a middle table league one club are around £5m a year. Our only source of income is through attendance and player sales. We lose a couple of million every year despite having been very successful in recent years at developing players and selling for a profit. So every owner will need to put in a few million a year to just stay where we are.

Having our own stadium provides as an absolute minimum, the opportunity to get all the additional matchday revenue through food and drink sales without the additional rental fees. That in itself will benefit the club and the owner by £1m+ a year. Add in the additional retail and leisure units, possible other sporting events, conferences, concerts, hotel etc that would come with a modern stadium and you can see how it can become very profitable.

How do you not see this?

You always seem to miss the point how are these ideas going to be funded on and off the pitch, at what cost to the club and the fans?
You presume so much of these investors that it will always be to the benefit of the club.
You are championing something that if it happens might be no where near what you expect, as the club is being run as a business as you rightly point out is losing money but are not all clubs it’s the nature of football now, I can’t see at the moment if after spending all that money how will they recoup their outlay, could be frying pan to the fire.

 

[LondonRoader]

Correct me if I am wrong LR, but you seem to have always have been of the view that a new ground is not necessary as we have a good deal where we are and would never get anything better?

I would not like to think we are putting the future of our club that might end up threatening our existence.
Do we really know enough of what’s really happening here apart from the sound bites of the club cheer leader.

 

[Gary Baldi]

I think the key is being able to cater for multiple needs and use each as a revenue stream to grow the club, or minimise losses. Grenoble Road today cannot do that- too basic

 

[Scotchegg]

You always seem to miss the point how are these ideas going to be funded on and off the pitch, at what cost to the club and the fans?
You presume so much of these investors that it will always be to the benefit of the club.
You are championing something that if it happens might be no where near what you expect, as the club is being run as a business as you rightly point out is losing money but are not all clubs it’s the nature of football now, I can’t see at the moment if after spending all that money how will they recoup their outlay, could be frying pan to the fire.

Christ, I'll try one more time!

Current position, Oxford United are losing approx. £3m a year. The cost of competing in league 1 will only go up, whilst our revenue streams remain limited to ticket sales. Staying at the Kassam on our current deal will likely cost the owners £15-20m over the next 5 1/2 seasons, and may or not be better with an extension to the lease.

A new stadium with leisure and retail units, hotel etc costs, let's say £80m. Sounds huge doesn't it? But some of that will be offset with naming rights, sponsorship, and maybe some support from the council - but still a decent chunk of cash.

But a half decent hotel in Oxford could bring in £5m a year. Then you have retail units, maybe cinema, conference centre, gym, bowling, escape rooms, food outlets, bars etc. These will all bring in a few million as well. And that's before you even get to the football. No rent to pay to Kassam, 100% income from the whole matchday experience, food and drink etc and it starts to look like a very decent investment after all.

So it's simple, lose £3+ a season at the Kassam or potentially make around £10m at a new stadium. No brainer isn't it.

Now, of course you will say that this is all unknown and guesswork but there are lots of examples of the kinds of revenue that comes from new stadia. But then you will say, couldn't Tiger just keep all the money and leave Oxford to rot? Of course, but that's all in getting a proper agreement in place to ensure that the football club has full control over all associated income with a peanut rent for the next 25 years. Exactly the same as happened with DC United.

So, although I'm the official club cheerleader, I'm genuinely struggling to see how this can't be a great thing for our future.

 

[Oldman159]

I hear that Jezza has promised umpty ump gazillion to fund new football stadia (for the many, not just the few) . Ours is to be called the people's unicorn stadium. He has also promised to remain neutral in all the Oxford/Scumdown games.

comrade McDonnell has published all the final results for season 20/21 already.

?

 

[holdsteady]

The club loses millions every season playing at the Kassam, has done in 3 different divisions and with varying budgets. So it’s hard to see an argument for staying, cuddly Uncle Firoz isn’t going to sell us anything more than the crumbling unfinished wind tunnel and a few parking spaces around it at an exorbitant price. The move hasn’t worked out, we have been there long enough to see that now, time has come to cut our losses and move.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I think it would be quite hard to get ourselves in much more of a pickle with a stadium than we are currently in.

The stadium isn't 'ours'
Unfinished, aging stadium
Hostile landlord
No stadium/matchday income from anything apart from ticket sales
Lease rapidly running out
Paying a fortune in rent.

Of course, there are good points. The surface is currently excellent. There's loads of parking. Struggling to think of much more.

So IF (and I really do think it's still an IF not a WHEN) ST and his mates build a new stadium, I am finding it difficult to image how we could find ourselves in a much worse position than we are now, except if we (as in the club rather than the consortium) somehow manage to lose even more on an annual basis. And since the people who would be spending the money on the stadium are the same people who own the club, presumably they have thought of that!

 

[Foley]

I would not like to think we are putting the future of our club that might end up threatening our existence.
Do we really know enough of what’s really happening here apart from the sound bites of the club cheer leader.

Why threaten our existence?
I am really struggling on how it could be much worse than it is now?
An appalling licence agreement with an awful landlord and pretty poor stadium.
The current situation as stated by owner after owner is not a viable situation. Our existence is threatened in this awful curremt situation

 

[werthersoriginal]

Why threaten our existence?
I am really struggling on how it could be much worse than it is now?
An appalling licence agreement with an awful landlord and pretty poor stadium.
The current situation as stated by owner after owner is not a viable situation. Our existence is threatened in this awful curremt situation

Yes of course we need either to move or to buy and improve the Kassam. This ground is proof that attendances don’t always magically rise when you move to a new stadium - I think there was a bit of a bump but nothing like Reading or Swansea

 

[Discoland]

Yes of course we need either to move or to buy and improve the Kassam. This ground is proof that attendances don’t always magically rise when you move to a new stadium - I think there was a bit of a bump but nothing like Reading or Swansea

Hardly surprising after everything that went on with getting it built in the first place and still only ending up with a 3 standed wind tunnel that doesn't generate any proper noise and was never really fit for purpose. Cant wait to get rid of the shackles tying us to the ground and wiping any memory of Kassam off the face of the earth.

 

[Barbadosyellow]

Personally I'd be happy enough staying where we are with the West Stand built, the corners filled in, 20,000 capacity, a proper name, ownership by the club and Championship football. Is that too much to ask? It's the main reason why I play the Euromillions!

 

[LondonRoader]

Christ, I'll try one more time!

Current position, Oxford United are losing approx. £3m a year. The cost of competing in league 1 will only go up, whilst our revenue streams remain limited to ticket sales. Staying at the Kassam on our current deal will likely cost the owners £15-20m over the next 5 1/2 seasons, and may or not be better with an extension to the lease.

A new stadium with leisure and retail units, hotel etc costs, let's say £80m. Sounds huge doesn't it? But some of that will be offset with naming rights, sponsorship, and maybe some support from the council - but still a decent chunk of cash.

But a half decent hotel in Oxford could bring in £5m a year. Then you have retail units, maybe cinema, conference centre, gym, bowling, escape rooms, food outlets, bars etc. These will all bring in a few million as well. And that's before you even get to the football. No rent to pay to Kassam, 100% income from the whole matchday experience, food and drink etc and it starts to look like a very decent investment after all.

So it's simple, lose £3+ a season at the Kassam or potentially make around £10m at a new stadium. No brainer isn't it.

Now, of course you will say that this is all unknown and guesswork but there are lots of examples of the kinds of revenue that comes from new stadia. But then you will say, couldn't Tiger just keep all the money and leave Oxford to rot? Of course, but that's all in getting a proper agreement in place to ensure that the football club has full control over all associated income with a peanut rent for the next 25 years. Exactly the same as happened with DC United.

So, although I'm the official club cheerleader, I'm genuinely struggling to see how this can't be a great thing for our future.

This is all ifs and buts of you spending someone else's money with out absolutely no idea of how they would manage this situation, you keep peddling the line the investors are only here to help OUFC with lots of duplicious sound bites that you have no idea are true.
At the moment this is a little fantasy in your head.

 

[LondonRoader]

Why threaten our existence?
I am really struggling on how it could be much worse than it is now?
An appalling licence agreement with an awful landlord and pretty poor stadium.
The current situation as stated by owner after owner is not a viable situation. Our existence is threatened in this awful curremt situation

Are they the same owners who brought the club and already knew what the situation was, both recent owners were happy when they took over but that changed when they realised the stadium wasn't on the table to buy, there is more hysteria from the fans about the licence costs.
I would be a little more than worried if as you say the owners can't pay the current licence payments and that put the club in jeopardy.
The new stadium issue, where is the money being borrowed from to make it happen? if the current owners can't afford to pay the rent how are they going to pay the repayments on the money borrowed for the stadium? will this debt stay with the club if they leave?
The main investor has come and gone, people were really excited when he arrived thinking we are on the brink of something good, I know there are some good people on the board but for me it just shows how fragile investors and football is currently, Santori/SAFC another example.

 

[Manorlounger]

Are they the same owners who brought the club and already knew what the situation was, both recent owners were happy when they took over but that changed when they realised the stadium wasn't on the table to buy, there is more hysteria from the fans about the licence costs.
I would be a little more than worried if as you say the owners can't pay the current licence payments and that put the club in jeopardy.
The new stadium issue, where is the money being borrowed from to make it happen? if the current owners can't afford to pay the rent how are they going to pay the repayments on the money borrowed for the stadium? will this debt stay with the club if they leave?
The main investor has come and gone, people were really excited when he arrived thinking we are on the brink of something good, I know there are some good people on the board but for me it just shows how fragile investors and football is currently, Santori/SAFC another example.

I can understand your scepticism and you would be right to ask questions, it's what a lot of us have been and will be doing ongoing. However, some of what you say is unsubstantiated. To claim that the "main investor" has gone is not something that you, or I, can say with any certainty. I do feel that it would be more correct to say that a wealthy director has stood down from the board but, as stated when he did so, remains in contact with the club.
The collective wealth still present on the board is more than sufficient to fund a stadium and more besides.
Everything coming out of the club recently has suggested that a decision on where to build is imminent not, please note, if to build, but where. There are directors on the board with experience, nous, and the capital to progress a build. More importantly, they have been going about the business in a very ethical manner in a direct contrast to FK. Ties to both Oxford City and County authorities have been established and proven by the results materialised. (the training ground is a huge success for this approach)
As to debt hanging over the club, I believe I am correct in saying that it has been said, no debt for the construction would be tied to the club nor, would the stadium be separated from the club. The finance to build would be raised by the existing directors and used to build self sustaining properties which would provide a return on that finance. Much as FK has done with Grenoble Road (although I believe theirs would be of a far superior nature)

I am looking forward with enthusiasm to hearing the announcements promised at the end of the season. I have been very sceptical of Tiger et al but, recent events (and of course results on the pitch) have pushed that scepticism further aside. It may just be that, at last, after so many years of owners who couldn't afford the vision that we all crave, we actually have a group of directors who really will put their money where their mouths are.

 

[Scotchegg]

This is all ifs and buts of you spending someone else's money with out absolutely no idea of how they would manage this situation, you keep peddling the line the investors are only here to help OUFC with lots of duplicious sound bites that you have no idea are true.
At the moment this is a little fantasy in your head.

It isn't all ifs and buts though is it? It's a business plan, put in place by serious business people!! I honestly despair at how incredibly stupid you must be not to see this for what it is.

Duplicitous sounds bites? Little fantasy? Are you insane?!

I was going to explain for the 1000th time how this makes sense but there really is no point when you are simply blind to the truth.

 

[Scotchegg]

I can understand your scepticism and you would be right to ask questions, it's what a lot of us have been and will be doing ongoing. However, some of what you say is unsubstantiated. To claim that the "main investor" has gone is not something that you, or I, can say with any certainty. I do feel that it would be more correct to say that a wealthy director has stood down from the board but, as stated when he did so, remains in contact with the club.
The collective wealth still present on the board is more than sufficient to fund a stadium and more besides.
Everything coming out of the club recently has suggested that a decision on where to build is imminent not, please note, if to build, but where. There are directors on the board with experience, nous, and the capital to progress a build. More importantly, they have been going about the business in a very ethical manner in a direct contrast to FK. Ties to both Oxford City and County authorities have been established and proven by the results materialised. (the training ground is a huge success for this approach)
As to debt hanging over the club, I believe I am correct in saying that it has been said, no debt for the construction would be tied to the club nor, would the stadium be separated from the club. The finance to build would be raised by the existing directors and used to build self sustaining properties which would provide a return on that finance. Much as FK has done with Grenoble Road (although I believe theirs would be of a far superior nature)

I am looking forward with enthusiasm to hearing the announcements promised at the end of the season. I have been very sceptical of Tiger et al but, recent events (and of course results on the pitch) have pushed that scepticism further aside. It may just be that, at last, after so many years of owners who couldn't afford the vision that we all crave, we actually have a group of directors who really will put their money where their mouths are.

Well done for replying with more dignity than I did!!!

 

[Gold and Black]

Who remembers the big games at the Manor?
Supporters club full
Most pubs and cafes, restaurants full
Chip shops etc full
Even the city centre was buzzing
How can that ever happen at our present place

 

[Yellow hert]

LR maybe the ownerspast and present did understand the stadium situation but were also told by other parties that the stadium was for sale and/or that a new stadium was viable. Then planning regs change and the stadium land becomes a gold mine for a property tycoon and councillors start saying yes but what about this planning problem...
Maybe the economics of retail outlets to make things viable goes tits up because of political stupidity beyond their control.
People in London are looking at the Tottenham project and looking at the financially crippling debts that spurs have and thinking shiny new stadiums are maybe not the solution to our problems.
The reality is that NM and OCC have both left our club in a right mess. IL, DE and now tiger have/are trying to solve it because if you do get it right then OUFC could be a financially sound project but FK and OCC in their own ways are making that virtually impossible in my opinion.

 

[windmill]

I think it would be quite hard to get ourselves in much more of a pickle with a stadium than we are currently in.

The stadium isn't 'ours'
Unfinished, aging stadium
Hostile landlord
No stadium/matchday income from anything apart from ticket sales
Lease rapidly running out
Paying a fortune in rent.

Of course, there are good points. The surface is currently excellent. There's loads of parking. Struggling to think of much more.

So IF (and I really do think it's still an IF not a WHEN) ST and his mates build a new stadium, I am finding it difficult to image how we could find ourselves in a much worse position than we are now, except if we (as in the club rather than the consortium) somehow manage to lose even more on an annual basis. And since the people who would be spending the money on the stadium are the same people who own the club, presumably they have thought of that!

Of course the surface is excellent, it has not been played on for a month!

 

[Marked Ox]

Who remembers the big games at the Manor?
Supporters club full
Most pubs and cafes, restaurants full
Chip shops etc full
Even the city centre was buzzing
How can that ever happen at our present place

There will be excitement around the Man City game and I expect the pubs/bars and food outlets will do well out of it. I doubt the City Centre will though but that is far more to do with how the City Centre has changed imo. The City Centre has become more and more focused on being a tourist trap since the 1990s. Yes, it always had tourists but the focus was on locals as well but that for me has been lost with the focus on the many visitors the City gets now.