General More news re; stadium/training ground, thoughts?

[Victor1986]

The stadium!!! ?

I'm not entirely sure on what is required but remember seeing something about managing the traffic flow if our capacity increased. I'm not saying that this would cost millions, but just that any additional costs added to the inflated price Kassam would want reduces the viability of staying where we are.

@Essexyellows the time constraints are the big issue. 5 years is not long when we have to factor in all the legal wrangling, but I think with the team we have working on it that we could deliver within this time - just!

Er.. when Planning Permission was granted for a complete 4 - sided Stadium did it then stipulate a wider access road than we now have? With greatest respect Scotch, I do not think this is a factor - OK it may be better to have a 'better & wider' access road but I would need to be shown exactly where it says we have to have this work done? Also, from what I can glean from the approved original design, the indicated capacity of any 4th stand may well be more than what we really want.

 

[Scotchegg]

Er.. when Planning Permission was granted for a complete 4 - sided Stadium did it then stipulate a wider access road than we now have? With greatest respect Scotch, I do not think this is a factor - OK it may be better to have a 'better & wider' access road but I would need to be shown exactly where it says we have to have this work done? Also, from what I can glean from the approved original design, the indicated capacity of any 4th stand may well be more than what we really want.

Lets rule out the access road then, and only focus on buying the stadium, hotel, cinema and leisure facilities, build a 4th stand, sort out the toilets and give the place a much needed spruce up.

I think SD said that to but the stadium and get it up to the standard required was approx. £25m. Add in the hotel and leisure facilities and you'll be looking at £40m+ for a 25 year old build. A new build may cost £60m+ but it will be bespoke to our needs.

We should never say never, but I think a new build would always be the best option rather than spending a lot to stay in our current home.

 

[Victor1986]

Respect your comments but I very much doubt whether a '25 year old build' could command that sort of money - we shall see.

 

[horseman]

If our businessmen are savvy then you would think they have surely checked the required price from the current custodian for the stadium and any other property of interest ? Perhaps just having the stadium does not fit in with their plan as there would be insufficient return on their investment.

With regards to any identified area for new build where is their plan for how Oxford United will benefit from such a development? Are they intending being here for the Long Term or will thy look to exit once the Property around any new ground is bringing in the money for them.

Also how long will they remain if the planning process drags on and what is the plan should promotion not be gained in the next year or 2 as a League 1 club will not need a shiny new stadium with gates around 6-7k

it would be nice to hear exactly how the club will benefit from any deal whatever or wherever that may be.

 

[bazzer9461]

Either an access road or ...

A park and ride scheme like they do occasionally now for large games and
Car parking stewards with walkie talkies who are there at the end of the game (not just the start) with a sensible traffic flow management scheme. Even just stop/go boards.

If our capacity is 20,000. + we have to supply an access road, but if they do build houses south of Grenoble road then and if we owned the ground then I’m sure a deal could be struck with the developers.

 

[werthersoriginal]

If our businessmen are savvy then you would think they have surely checked the required price from the current custodian for the stadium and any other property of interest ? Perhaps just having the stadium does not fit in with their plan as there would be insufficient return on their investment.

With regards to any identified area for new build where is their plan for how Oxford United will benefit from such a development? Are they intending being here for the Long Term or will thy look to exit once the Property around any new ground is bringing in the money for them.

Also how long will they remain if the planning process drags on and what is the plan should promotion not be gained in the next year or 2 as a League 1 club will not need a shiny new stadium with gates around 6-7k

it would be nice to hear exactly how the club will benefit from any deal whatever or wherever that may be.

Mate you aren’t going to get that sort of information

 

[Manorlounger]

Respect your comments but I very much doubt whether a '25 year old build' could command that sort of money - we shall see.

It's not what a "25 year old build" could command, it's what FK would demand. He has no incentive to sell, no need to sell. And, factor in that successive owners have tried to buy and been told "not for sale to you" there is no real argument for pursuing that avenue any further.
The Ozone development is old and not particularly successful from a financial turnover point of view. FK does very well out of it because he doesn't run any of the business (other than the stadium) he has leased/licenced everything. They all pay him a handsome "rent" to stay on his site.

No sane developer would look at investing in the site. FK got it all for a song (thanks to OCC) wrangled his way around covenants preventing alcohol sales and got praised for saving OUFC to boot! What a developer wants is a clean sheet, bare earth. Not a 25 year old football ground that requires more spent on it than would ever be returned.

 

[Scotchegg]

Respect your comments but I very much doubt whether a '25 year old build' could command that sort of money - we shall see.

The land would command that fee for housing so there is no way Kassam would sell for anything less. I'm not suggesting that it is a fair price, but just using figures given by SD a few years ago.

 

[Manorlounger]

I have had to search for this but, I was convinced that I had heard a promise made to link stadium and club, and I was right.

Listen to the question posed at about 5 minute 20 seconds and the response from Zaki Nuseibeh.

Adam Ball - 5 Minute Fans Forum: Zaki Nuseibeh (31/10/19) - BBC Sounds

Oxford United’s Vice-Chairman Zaki Nuseibeh answers fans questions.

www.bbc.co.uk

Edited: Time of question and answer is 5 minutes and 20 seconds, apologies for the confusion!

 

[OX14]

I have had to search for this but, I was convinced that I had heard a promise made to link stadium and club, and I was right.

Listen to the question posed at about 2 minute 50 seconds and the response from Zaki Nuseibeh.

Adam Ball - 5 Minute Fans Forum: Zaki Nuseibeh (31/10/19) - BBC Sounds

Oxford United’s Vice-Chairman Zaki Nuseibeh answers fans questions.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yes this is the reason why there is zero chance they are looking to buy the kassam. There's nothing in it for them to make money from, even if they bought the ozone and hotels it would take years to make a profit from.

Buying land, building a stadium that is are asset and developing the land around the stadium, whether that's houses, flats, offices, retail who knows. That's where they will make their chunk of cash. Yes it will be a big outlay for them but they will soon make there money back.

Kassam will then get to knock down the kassam, maybe even the ozone, hotels etc and build houses on it.

Everyone's a winner.

 

[uptheus]

I have had to search for this but, I was convinced that I had heard a promise made to link stadium and club, and I was right.

Listen to the question posed at about 2 minute 50 seconds and the response from Zaki Nuseibeh.

Adam Ball - 5 Minute Fans Forum: Zaki Nuseibeh (31/10/19) - BBC Sounds

Oxford United’s Vice-Chairman Zaki Nuseibeh answers fans questions.

www.bbc.co.uk

Do you mean the answer relating to ownership if we were to move to a new stadium etc?

 

[Manorlounger]

Do you mean the answer relating to ownership if we were to move to a new stadium etc?

Apologies! I gave the wrong timing for the quote. If you go to 5 minutes 20 seconds into the interview, he answers a question relating to ground ownership. The club would own the stadium.

 

[LondonRoader]

I find Scotcheggs information quite interesting and believe the forum would be worse without his input. Leave it to individuals to determine if they want to agree or disagree with his comments.

That's what a forum is for.

 

[LondonRoader]

The land would command that fee for housing so there is no way Kassam would sell for anything less. I'm not suggesting that it is a fair price, but just using figures given by SD a few years ago.

Is that the same SD you are berating on another thread?

 

[LondonRoader]

Come on dude, time to move on.

Yes you are right, it's all gone a bit confusing at the moment, one minute we are on the cusp of a new stadium then the emphasis is on whether the stadium is worth doing up, might be a bit of a distraction mind.

 

[Scotchegg]

Is that the same SD you are berating on another thread?

Yes.

 

[Essexyellows]

The stadium!!! ?

I'm not entirely sure on what is required but remember seeing something about managing the traffic flow if our capacity increased. I'm not saying that this would cost millions, but just that any additional costs added to the inflated price Kassam would want reduces the viability of staying where we are.

@Essexyellows the time constraints are the big issue. 5 years is not long when we have to factor in all the legal wrangling, but I think with the team we have working on it that we could deliver within this time - just!

I`m glad you hold such optimism!
Just remind me how long it took FK to get the Kassam finished, even after all the groundwork had been done?

Starting from a "blank sheet of paper" .............. with a 5 year time frame.
They need a plan/design (probably the easy bit!)
They need planning approved with no "awkward" neighbours.
They need a regeneration plan for the area surrounding the stadium (its why Spuds were initially turned down in 2010....note 9 years to resolve that and build!).
They need land, a costly asset.
They will need money, a lot of money.
They may need a temporary home if the rolling lease is abandoned. Can we simply walk away? Do we have to pay an "exit" fee or get our deposit back?
They need to consider the fanbase. Moving locally retains it but a short term ground share with, lets say Wycombe, will crush the core and impact ST revenue that could have consequences on the pitch.

Lots of interesting points here https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2013/11/blueprint-successful-stadium-development.pdf

Many of which could be easily covered by a refreshed Kassam with a much lower (affordable) level of investment.

 

[Scotchegg]

I`m glad you hold such optimism!
Just remind me how long it took FK to get the Kassam finished, even after all the groundwork had been done?

Starting from a "blank sheet of paper" .............. with a 5 year time frame.
They need a plan/design (probably the easy bit!)
They need planning approved with no "awkward" neighbours.
They need a regeneration plan for the area surrounding the stadium (its why Spuds were initially turned down in 2010....note 9 years to resolve that and build!).
They need land, a costly asset.
They will need money, a lot of money.
They may need a temporary home if the rolling lease is abandoned. Can we simply walk away? Do we have to pay an "exit" fee or get our deposit back?
They need to consider the fanbase. Moving locally retains it but a short term ground share with, lets say Wycombe, will crush the core and impact ST revenue that could have consequences on the pitch.

Lots of interesting points here https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2013/11/blueprint-successful-stadium-development.pdf

Many of which could be easily covered by a refreshed Kassam with a much lower (affordable) level of investment.

Optimistic, yes. Blinkered, no. There are loads of hurdles to get over and I'm not naive enough to think that it will be a stroll in the park. However, we have some highly experienced people working towards this, far beyond the team that Kassam would have had. The situation regarding the use of green and brown sites has also changed an their is an appetite to work with us by the local authorities.

So going off your list, I'd say that the plan/design is done but is likely to adapt to any given site. And the money, lots of it, is available.

The land is the next hurdle and I think that we're down to a couple of options. Looking at the viability of these will also consider the likelihood of planning approval, as well as any regeneration. It certainly won't be easy, but we won't be going in blind.

The rest will all depend on timescales. If we had a year to identify the location, 2 years of legal wrangling and 2 years of building then we're right on track to leave our current lease on time and start the next season in our new home. Those timeframes are delibrately vague, but certainly not impossible. I would guess it would be more likely that we would need to extend by one year rather than leave early, but I guess that would all be negotiable. Again, not easy with Kassam, but also not impossible. I'm sure he'd rather do a one year deal rather than being tied in for the next 25 years.

So, difficult but achievable.

 

[Essexyellows]

@Scotchegg yep, I get the optimism/hope bit.
Sadly I`ve seen so many attempts over the decades that make me cast a small cloud of pessimism over the "move again" theory.
Equally I see why/how FK dealt with the Manor 7 Grenoble Road, some very sharp, shrewd business he did there, and he might be the only person to ever profit from owning OUFC !
Still have a gut feeling that either interest, time or money will run out and we`ll still be discussing it in 10 years time.
Would love to be proved wrong though!!!

 

[AbbeyOx]

Optimistic, yes. Blinkered, no. There are loads of hurdles to get over and I'm not naive enough to think that it will be a stroll in the park. However, we have some highly experienced people working towards this, far beyond the team that Kassam would have had. The situation regarding the use of green and brown sites has also changed an their is an appetite to work with us by the local authorities.

So going off your list, I'd say that the plan/design is done but is likely to adapt to any given site. And the money, lots of it, is available.

The land is the next hurdle and I think that we're down to a couple of options. Looking at the viability of these will also consider the likelihood of planning approval, as well as any regeneration. It certainly won't be easy, but we won't be going in blind.

The rest will all depend on timescales. If we had a year to identify the location, 2 years of legal wrangling and 2 years of building then we're right on track to leave our current lease on time and start the next season in our new home. Those timeframes are delibrately vague, but certainly not impossible. I would guess it would be more likely that we would need to extend by one year rather than leave early, but I guess that would all be negotiable. Again, not easy with Kassam, but also not impossible. I'm sure he'd rather do a one year deal rather than being tied in for the next 25 years.

So, difficult but achievable.

in the park - is that a clue? they’re going to build new stadium in Headington park ?