General More news re; stadium/training ground, thoughts?

[bazzer9461]

Well exactly. Kassam is a formidable businessman.
So not sure how paying market rate (£12m according to Kassam) for the stadium which needs £m's to ' complete' works?
It seems pretty likely that the plan is to build a new community stadium with the land round the new stadium being used to fund this. Which to me seems a far more sensible plan.

But that will cost possibly a lot more than buying the Kassam and as was mentioned earlier would live the ground, the leisure and the hotel with what income it would generate

 

[Barbadosyellow]

Out of interest you suggested that KK does not hold the cards as the licence is close to the end (which can be renewed)
How have you surmised that?

I actually said he doesn't hold all the cards.

 

[MarkG]

Some time ago, the general consensus of opinion was that the amount we (well Merry!) agreed was the buy out price for the stadium was £12m and the stadium was 'worth' £8m and probably now needed anything up to £1m spent on it (not including the fourth stand). There is no way on earth that savvy businessmen are going to spend the best part of £13m on something worth £8m. Especially if the car parks and businesses around the stadium remain under the control of the 'guardian of the club'.

So IMO they'd only be interested if they were buying the whole lot - and since there is not (as far as we know) any agreed price for the whole shooting match, I cannot imagine that it would be on offer at anything approaching a reasonable price.

At the time I think Ian Lenagan costed it as £10million build price and a five times earnings multiple on 600k to get to £13million. Please excuse any inaccuracies it was a long time ago.

 

[LondonRoader]

I could only answer that question if I knew exactly what FK paid for the site and its various developments, how much debt is associated with it, operating profits for the existing footprint, what kind of planning permission is available to him going forward and if he has more attractive plans for somewhere completely different that could be funded by selling the Grenoble Road site. Even if the net result of all that is a preference by FK for the status quo, believing that the board might have a viable alternative to the existing stadium can only help the club if there are any negotiations. FK doesn't hold all the cards any more now that the lease is running out.

Well said.
There’s a lot of people making a lot of assumptions without the proper knowledge to back it up, I get this is a forum to say what you want on here but when people try and write stuff as fact when it’s only an opinion.

 

[Manorlounger]

Seems to me that a lot on here have forgotten that the licence to play at the Kassam is on a rolling agreement. 25 years ends, another 25 starts. The price goes up with inflation, the service charges go up with, well, for want of a better description, imagination and there you have it. The club is bent over a barrel with a reaming of its rear end in full progress.

OUFC must get out.

 

[Scotchegg]

I hope so! You two are behaving like kids.

You are right @Malc , it has becomes unnecessarily undignified and I'll certainly be aware of how I post in the future.

I will however take one moment to explain my position, and what I know and will leave others to make their own judgements without it becoming another petty argument.

I'm not as ITK as some assume, and I'm certainly not the voice of the club on here. I'm sure with people like Zaki at the club doing so much to communicate in such a positive fashion, the last thing they would need is someone like me screwing things up. However, I do get bits of information from time to time, and like with a jigsaw, you can often work out the general picture without all the pieces, even if some specific detail is lost.

With regard to the stadium plans, I do know that some serious work has been put in to find suitable sites and to work with all relevant authorities. The ideal situation is to get a stadium which can bring in revenue all year round, which is why retail and leisure facilities will definitely be included, and very likely a hotel too. All plans are of course subject to approval, but developments of this nature are not impossible and there are very experienced people on board to make this very possible. All of this is fairly generic and I can't and won't evidence specifics, but I think some would be genuinely surprised with how far things have already progressed.

As for sites, I've heard a couple of places which I believe are most likely. I won't say where, but it won't be Bicester. It simply doesn't fit with the image the club are pursuing with the explicit marketing of the Oxford brand, or the image of Bicester Village as a chic shopping experience. However, there are millions of tourists who go through BV every year and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some links to encourage tourists to add football to the wider tourist experience, especially with those from south east asia.

The club and NM specifically have said that we could expect some more substantial news by the end of this season. I have absolutely no reason to doubt this, although I would have maybe been a little more vague with dates to buy a little flexibility. However, as with the training ground, these deals do not happen overnight. So the fact that we're maybe looking at 6 months or so before finding out more shows how seriously the club are taking this.

And I think we should soon see that Tiger and co. are here for the long term and really are putting the club and the community at the centre of what they do. That's not to say that they wouldn't expect to make a few quid, but that's what serious businessmen do. Their success will be our success, and they would expect to be able to finance the club as a sustainable Championship club for the long term.

But of course, it's only a year since we were struggling to balance the books so it's understandable that many want to see something more tangible than a few posts on an internet forum. Action speak louder than words, but these actions will take a little longer to be seen.

So, I'll leave it for others to judge where we are and whether this will ever come to fruition. But I won't bore you any further by banging the same drum. I'll be on the Sunderland thread mocking Charlie instead!!!

 

[horseman]

Their success would perhaps be virtual guaranteed, our success would surely depend on what's written in stone to the benefit of the club

 

[LondonRoader]

You are right @Malc , it has becomes unnecessarily undignified and I'll certainly be aware of how I post in the future.

I will however take one moment to explain my position, and what I know and will leave others to make their own judgements without it becoming another petty argument.

I'm not as ITK as some assume, and I'm certainly not the voice of the club on here. I'm sure with people like Zaki at the club doing so much to communicate in such a positive fashion, the last thing they would need is someone like me screwing things up. However, I do get bits of information from time to time, and like with a jigsaw, you can often work out the general picture without all the pieces, even if some specific detail is lost.

With regard to the stadium plans, I do know that some serious work has been put in to find suitable sites and to work with all relevant authorities. The ideal situation is to get a stadium which can bring in revenue all year round, which is why retail and leisure facilities will definitely be included, and very likely a hotel too. All plans are of course subject to approval, but developments of this nature are not impossible and there are very experienced people on board to make this very possible. All of this is fairly generic and I can't and won't evidence specifics, but I think some would be genuinely surprised with how far things have already progressed.

As for sites, I've heard a couple of places which I believe are most likely. I won't say where, but it won't be Bicester. It simply doesn't fit with the image the club are pursuing with the explicit marketing of the Oxford brand, or the image of Bicester Village as a chic shopping experience. However, there are millions of tourists who go through BV every year and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some links to encourage tourists to add football to the wider tourist experience, especially with those from south east asia.

The club and NM specifically have said that we could expect some more substantial news by the end of this season. I have absolutely no reason to doubt this, although I would have maybe been a little more vague with dates to buy a little flexibility. However, as with the training ground, these deals do not happen overnight. So the fact that we're maybe looking at 6 months or so before finding out more shows how seriously the club are taking this.

And I think we should soon see that Tiger and co. are here for the long term and really are putting the club and the community at the centre of what they do. That's not to say that they wouldn't expect to make a few quid, but that's what serious businessmen do. Their success will be our success, and they would expect to be able to finance the club as a sustainable Championship club for the long term.

But of course, it's only a year since we were struggling to balance the books so it's understandable that many want to see something more tangible than a few posts on an internet forum. Action speak louder than words, but these actions will take a little longer to be seen.

So, I'll leave it for others to judge where we are and whether this will ever come to fruition. But I won't bore you any further by banging the same drum. I'll be on the Sunderland thread mocking Charlie instead!!!

Ha Ha Ha, I knew you were going to get pulled up on the nonsense you keep spouting, you are right, you do the club no favours posting all that "opinion" on here and I think your info chain might be a bit more cautious in future, though I do think one of them might want to still serve his own ego.

 

[Essexyellows]

Seems to me that a lot on here have forgotten that the licence to play at the Kassam is on a rolling agreement. 25 years ends, another 25 starts. The price goes up with inflation, the service charges go up with, well, for want of a better description, imagination and there you have it. The club is bent over a barrel with a reaming of its rear end in full progress.

OUFC must get out.

And buying said ground & ancillary attachments see us out of that scenario.
We are never going to get a site, planning and construction work done on a new ground before the next reaming approaches.
We spend a lot of money on rent,service charges etc and receive no/little income from the ground and its customers.
If we "moved out" whilst doing so our already fragile fan base would be pretty much crushed, yet we know there are 30k+ of them on good days!!

Lets go "pie in the sky" and FK says "Tell you what chaps have the lot for £25 million".
That will be factored over time, its just re-channeling some of the money we already spend.
Most importantly all the "stuff" that shackles the club currently is gone.
We have a nice new Training Ground, our own stadium, our own non-match revenue streams from hotel & business leases.......... a fourth stand, a product people want.......... I can but dream!

 

[Frankie]

Ha Ha Ha, I knew you were going to get pulled up on the nonsense you keep spouting, you are right, you do the club no favours posting all that "opinion" on here and I think your info chain might be a bit more cautious in future, though I do think one of them might want to still serve his own ego.

I find Scotcheggs information quite interesting and believe the forum would be worse without his input. Leave it to individuals to determine if they want to agree or disagree with his comments.

 

[Scotchegg]

And buying said ground & ancillary attachments see us out of that scenario.
We are never going to get a site, planning and construction work done on a new ground before the next reaming approaches.
We spend a lot of money on rent,service charges etc and receive no/little income from the ground and its customers.
If we "moved out" whilst doing so our already fragile fan base would be pretty much crushed, yet we know there are 30k+ of them on good days!!

Lets go "pie in the sky" and FK says "Tell you what chaps have the lot for £25 million".
That will be factored over time, its just re-channeling some of the money we already spend.
Most importantly all the "stuff" that shackles the club currently is gone.
We have a nice new Training Ground, our own stadium, our own non-match revenue streams from hotel & business leases.......... a fourth stand, a product people want.......... I can but dream!

I think if Kassam offered the lot for £25m then we would take it. Sadly though, I would expect the figure to be significantly higher which makes it unworkable. By the time we've added in the costs of a 4th stand, repairs on the current structure, an access road etc then a new build would be almost the same cost but would be 25 years newer and more in touch with modern multi use venues.

 

[maidenheadox]

Ha Ha Ha, I knew you were going to get pulled up on the nonsense you keep spouting, you are right, you do the club no favours posting all that "opinion" on here and I think your info chain might be a bit more cautious in future, though I do think one of them might want to still serve his own ego.

Come on dude, time to move on.

 

[Victor1986]

Sorry Scotch - where would the access road need to be? And what evidence do you have of existing "structural defects" that need to be put right? Things might look 'shabby' in a few places but that doesn't mean millions need spending to change the situation.

 

[Marked Ox]

Sorry Scotch - where would the access road need to be? And what evidence do you have of existing "structural defects" that need to be put right? Things might look 'shabby' in a few places but that doesn't mean millions need spending to change the situation.

The shabby is in more than a few places and that is just in the East Stand.

 

[Scotchegg]

Sorry Scotch - where would the access road need to be? And what evidence do you have of existing "structural defects" that need to be put right? Things might look 'shabby' in a few places but that doesn't mean millions need spending to change the situation.

There is a requirement to provide an access road if the capacity increased, which would increase costs beyond just building a 4th stand. Also I said that repairs were needed to the existing structure rather than "structural defects" which sounds a little more dramatic. The whole place is shabby and would need an uplift. This might not equate to 10's of millions, but it all adds up.

So when we are looking at the cost of the whole infrastructure around the stadium + a 4th stand + access road + improvements around the ground, it gets pretty close to how much a new stadium would cost.

 

[Essexyellows]

Development over time, it need not all happen at once.
At the right price we have enough "firepower" on the board/associated to get it over the line.
What we lack is time, unless we do something (buy/new build) we will no doubt roll into another 25 year period of being behest to FK (or survivors thereof).
Whilst our tenancy is reducing there is a point where judgement can be made/forced....... it pressurises BOTH parties.
FK will need to get planning in place for housing etc, and the ancillaries to that aren`t cheap, plus there is reduced rental income as his best tenant could just pack up & move.
We`ve got 60+% of what we need in reasonable condition, why go and do a Darlington (or others) of running off & bankrupting ourselves over a "new" stadium?

 

[Grumpy Git]

An access road to where?

 

[Scotchegg]

An access road to where?

The stadium!!! ?

I'm not entirely sure on what is required but remember seeing something about managing the traffic flow if our capacity increased. I'm not saying that this would cost millions, but just that any additional costs added to the inflated price Kassam would want reduces the viability of staying where we are.

@Essexyellows the time constraints are the big issue. 5 years is not long when we have to factor in all the legal wrangling, but I think with the team we have working on it that we could deliver within this time - just!

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Either an access road or ...

A park and ride scheme like they do occasionally now for large games and
Car parking stewards with walkie talkies who are there at the end of the game (not just the start) with a sensible traffic flow management scheme. Even just stop/go boards.

 

[m]

There is a requirement to provide an access road if the capacity increased...

I think events in that postcode have pretty clearly demonstrated that requirements don't have to be met.

Mentioning no Priorys.