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Current Player Marselino Ferdinan
- Thread starter Sarge
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Bigdwoolly
Active member
Very difficult to integrate a player into a club when he's not there.
If his priority is for an international youth team, rather than Oxford, then he's not a serious signing. Are there any other players at the club you'd say that for?
LeftSideBoy
Yellow Army Member
But he has been with us? He's played a lot of academy games behind closed doors, he's spent time around the first team, and he's clearly closer to selection. Des has said that on a number of occasions.
Why should we stand in the way of a player getting competitive minutes for his country, just so we can keep him around the club? We're supposed to be developing him and helping his career. He is a big part of the future of Indonesian football, and the club have to respect that. I really dont see this as a negative thing.
Would you be saying the same if Scarlett was sat on the bench for us but got called up for an U21 tournament with England? No.
Bigdwoolly
Active member
I would say exactly the same thing and I wouldn't be alone. Everyone would be asking why they're scheduling an U21 tournament in the middle of the season. No issue with these things during international breaks or the close season.
He's miles away from selection now though isn't he? When we get to January we'll either have our injured wingers back, or we'll have signed some others. This month was his opportunity.
LeftSideBoy
Yellow Army Member
Is he? Granted, he's going to be away for the majority of December, but who knows, maybe he comes back in form and Des deems him ready for first-team selection?
Writing the lad off at this stage is really short-sighted in my opinion. Again, he's 19 years old and needs time to get up to speed with the demands of Championship football. If he was an academy product in and around the first team, would there be the same attitude towards him? I doubt it. I find some of the opinions toward his situation to be quite weird.
MarkG
Well-known member
Shin Tae-yong Opens Up on How World Champions Argentina Inspire Indonesia as Giant Slayers
Shin credits Indonesia's grit to a 2-0 loss to world champions Argentina on June 19, 2023, which proved to be a turning point.
jakartaglobe.id
Carlislehotdog
Active member
Come off it mate, he's already come back in form from his last set of internationals, in the middle of a busy set of fixtures, with a bunch of injuries to attacking midfielders... played zero minutes and now been told he can disappear for six weeks again.
I'm all for managing young talent carefully, but in what situation do you really see him playing for us if he hasn't yet?
Big Ron
Well-known member
I'm not writing him off but lots of travelling to play against some of the lowest ranked teams in international football when we are about to enter the busy Xmas and New Year period, that pretty much shows where he is in the pecking order.
Agree with that but agree with LeftSideBoy with regards the comment about him 'not being a serious signing'. He may not be a starter, or coming off the bench now, but that doesn't mean he won't be in the future. Signings can be for the long term as well as the immediate.
derek
Well-known member
When he's a little older, a little stronger, and a little better. And a national tournament will be very valuable in building towards that.
Let's face it, none of us know if we'll see him at all this season but that's no different to other academy players who have been on the bench a few times.
Big Ron
Well-known member
I don't disagree but my point was that I think he would be better off around the squad for the next month, rather than playing what are frankly a number of games against low quality opposition.
Bigdwoolly
Active member
If you look at Goodrham, he was playing Conference South at this age. Others of a similar age, like Golding, Johnson, Elliot-Wheeler have been in and around the Conference South as well. If Marselino was a serious option of being a first team player one day, I would think he should be doing something similar. A tournament against a load of U21s is not going to help as much, I'd guess.
LeftSideBoy
Yellow Army Member
Marselino just scored a brace against Saudi Arabia. A team that beat the World Champions not so long ago. A team that is considerably better than any side in the Conference South. Do you see any of the aforementioned doing that? Hardly ripping up trees, are they? Are they serious players, or do they get away without the same level scrutiny because they're academy players that aren't from Indonesia?
Ferdinan has played nearly 30 times for his country at the age of 20. Are you expecting Thohir and co to ship their golden boy out on loan to a league like that so he can have lumps kicked out of him? Yeah that sounds great for his development...
I'll trust the professionals with this one.
Bigdwoolly
Active member
So were the club wrong to send Goodrham to the Conference South to get lumps kicked out of him? Or did that actually help him out quite a lot?
Bit like Spurs sending Scarlett here for mens football, rather than just playing U19/20/21s for England.
LeftSideBoy
Yellow Army Member
No one player is the same, so not every single pathway is going to suit them. He's Indonesian, young, thousands of miles from home, and this is his first move to a 'big' club. Tyler has been in and around the English football pyramid his whole career, has his family around him, moved to a non-league club that was relatively local, and was recalled a few months later. I'm not sure Tyler would credit his time at Hayes & Yeading for turning him into the player that he is today. Thats down to Oxford United..
I would much rather we managed his development in house, and if need be, let him continue representing his country. He still gets to play football, it gives Des the chance to see him in a competitive environment, and who knows, playing for his country might actually make the player happy?
Bigdwoolly
Active member
Pathways are often different in terms of when things happen, but a lower league loan is a pretty common theme - obviously not the major part of any players development, but an important part of it.
Just not convinced a month away in a youth team would benefit him more than a month training with the first team here and maybe making an appearance.
I don't think Des sounded delighted about it in the post-match interview.
I think it can be argued either way as both have merits. On one hand he gets games and on the other he's around better players.
Probably unfair to quote your post as even though I agreed with your post, it kind of turned into a different point about the claim of him not being a serious signing.
Just as a side point but Lino may have a say in this as well as to what he'd prefer being down the pecking order.
Littlemore Local
Active member
Why do people keep calling it a youth competition? It isn't. And he's 20 not 19?
For an age comparison Lino's a year younger than Goodrham/Woltman, and about the same age as O'Donkor/Golding, with each of those having differing circumstances over recent seasons.
I hope Lino gets loads of goals playing for his country and comes back bursting with confidence. We know Des loves developing youths and we've been told how close he is. We can be patient for another month, just in time for the FA cup.
For an age comparison Lino's a year younger than Goodrham/Woltman, and about the same age as O'Donkor/Golding, with each of those having differing circumstances over recent seasons.
I hope Lino gets loads of goals playing for his country and comes back bursting with confidence. We know Des loves developing youths and we've been told how close he is. We can be patient for another month, just in time for the FA cup.
Honestly, this feels to me like a move we've made to keep Thohir and Bakrie happy.
Indonesia have never won this ASEAN Championship, but must fancy their chances this year as they're the only team from the region still active in World Cup qualification.
Marselino is one of their best players, so having him available for the tournament will likely increase their chances of winning, and I'm sure that would be a big thing for Indonesia.
I can't see that it's going to be helpful for his footballing development, playing games against some of the worst international sides in world football - when he could be working with our coaching staff, training with players that are going to challenge him and maybe just maybe getting some minutes (Cup third round would've seemed to be a great opportunity, depending on who we draw).
Indonesia have never won this ASEAN Championship, but must fancy their chances this year as they're the only team from the region still active in World Cup qualification.
Marselino is one of their best players, so having him available for the tournament will likely increase their chances of winning, and I'm sure that would be a big thing for Indonesia.
I can't see that it's going to be helpful for his footballing development, playing games against some of the worst international sides in world football - when he could be working with our coaching staff, training with players that are going to challenge him and maybe just maybe getting some minutes (Cup third round would've seemed to be a great opportunity, depending on who we draw).
FYI, from beginning when Indonesia qualified for WCQ Round 3, our FA have made decision for send U-22 team for attending AFF Cup.
And Marselino name not in the list for AFF Cup squad since he already considering as Senior team player despite his young age. And the coach for AFF cup also already decided, not STY. But somehow ( maybe because our next game for WCQ still ,,,in next 3 months ), this AFF Cup team will be manage by Shin Tae Yong as head coach....and since Marselino is his fav player.....he called him to squad.
I am between agree and disagree regarding this, if he stay at OU, but without playing any match...it won't good for him, so he joined AFF Cup team....he will play, but it will delay his time for adapt and blend with OU's squad. Also chances for get injury also big....since he is our key player for AFF Cup, every opponent's players must be watch him very tight, and won't hesitate for stop him at any cost.
So...i guess that's my fair POV regarding this situation.
And also need to add, i do respect all comments here, but for me kinda strange compare Championship matches with international matches that Lino have been played. He played in last World Cup Qualification stage where team in 1st and 2nd position automatically through to World Cup 2026, the highest level competition in football and every football players biggest dream. Even this is only Asian zone qualification, the tension and level of the matches are very high. And Lino play in that level, which for me higher than Championship level, and not all Championship players play in World Cup qualification. But once again...everybody have their opinion and i respect that.
Bigdwoolly
Active member
For clarification, I think it's very good, for him and OUFC, if he plays for the National team in World Cup qualification matches. These happen in international breaks anyway.
Even playing for the U-22s is fine in theory, it's just the length of time he'll be away which makes me question who is actually making these decisions.