General Manager Sack Watch

[WRox]

I completely get the argument that clubs don’t have loyalty so why should managers.

But seriously, abandoning your club to go two places up the league pyramid? To join the bottom team in a league you’ve failed in before, at a similar sized club whose managers have not previously been properly backed?

That feels like an Appleton-esque horrible career move. I can easily see that working out for him just like Manning/Norwich.

I can see why he wants it. He's local, it must be double the wage budget of Boro and he has a big connection to the club. They gave him his first permanent move as a player, then they gave him some big breaks in his coaching career from the academy to the first team.

I can appreciate at least why he might feel some loyalty to Wolves as much as Boro, and why it’s different to a certain someone walking out on Oxford and Bristol City having given him opportunities he arguably barely deserved.

 

[Old Man]

We have to hope that the clubs who are now without a manager (Head Coach) don’t come calling for GR .

 

[NorthWestOx]

We have to hope that the clubs who are now without a manager (Head Coach) don’t come calling for GR .

Hadn't seen this, but just made the same point regarding Norwich.
I can't see them coming for GR though.

 

[yellowbow]

I personally don’t get why there is any animosity towards managers that ‘jump ship’ for a better offer. They can get sacked within weeks of an appointment now so why not jump if an offer that suits them better comes along?

People shout for a manager to be sacked as soon as they hit a sticky patch but also shout snake at a manager when he gets offered something that suits him better financially an/or geographically.

A managers light shines brightly for a very brief period and then they are on the scrap heap. I certainly don’t begrudge anyone for grabbing what’s available before it all turns to s**t.

It’s as all part of the modern game as buying and selling players. I don’t really get the bitterness

 

[Wallop]

I personally don’t get why there is any animosity towards managers that ‘jump ship’ for a better offer. They can get sacked within weeks of an appointment now so why not jump if an offer that suits them better comes along?

People shout for a manager to be sacked as soon as they hit a sticky patch but also shout snake at a manager when he gets offered something that suits him better financially an/or geographically.

A managers light shines brightly for a very brief period and then they are on the scrap heap. I certainly don’t begrudge anyone for grabbing what’s available before it all turns to s**t.

It’s as all part of the modern game as buying and selling players. I don’t really get the bitterness

Exactly - e.g. it’s fairly well known that Manning was offered a long term deal on far more (3x) money - 95% of people on here in their profession would have done the same.

 

[SouthOxonOx]

It's a weird move. It's not as if he would be moving to a club known for its willingness to give managers a long stay! Quite possibly losing a promotion to put on his CV and replacing it with a relegation. The money must be good!

Trebling his money and moving close to home

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

I personally don’t get why there is any animosity towards managers that ‘jump ship’ for a better offer. They can get sacked within weeks of an appointment now so why not jump if an offer that suits them better comes along?

People shout for a manager to be sacked as soon as they hit a sticky patch but also shout snake at a manager when he gets offered something that suits him better financially an/or geographically.

A managers light shines brightly for a very brief period and then they are on the scrap heap. I certainly don’t begrudge anyone for grabbing what’s available before it all turns to s**t.

It’s as all part of the modern game as buying and selling players. I don’t really get the bitterness

Because they get sacked they get a huge payoff

 

[Orkney Islands Yellow]

 

[Northstand Grandad]

Bruce to Norwich?......is this a joke .?

 

[SSO]

Bruce to Norwich?......is this a joke .?

Absolutely agree mate. I simply cannot see her giving up Antiques Roadshow and Question Time for that.

 

[SSO]

Hadn't seen this, but just made the same point regarding Norwich.
I can't see them coming for GR though.

I can.
For whoever goes there the job is keep Norwich up. GR has history this division and with clubs around the size of Norwich. With more time he would have kept Birmingham up 2 seasons ago and you have to think given our current position our board would listen to an offer if a substantial compensation package were on the table.

However even for those of us who support him his stock is quite low at the moment so I would not expect any approach to come.

We did a good job bringing him in but I think any replacement for us would not be at the same level.

 

[dickwalton1964]

I can.
For whoever goes there the job is keep Norwich up. GR has history this division and with clubs around the size of Norwich. With more time he would have kept Birmingham up 2 seasons ago and you have to think given our current position our board would listen to an offer if a substantial compensation package were on the table.

However even for those of us who support him his stock is quite low at the moment so I would not expect any approach to come.

We did a good job bringing him in but I think any replacement for us would not be at the same level.

I'd be a bit surprised if they went for Rowett but there aren't many of the old school firefighters left now . Allardyce, Pulis, Warnock etc have had their day and there's no way back for any of them at any level in my opinion. Given Rowett's age he probably does come into that bracket of being a current football firefighter, hence Birmingham hanging their hat on him a season or two back. Norwich can't go all fancy and continental with this appointment and they will now be very wary of another young Manning type. This season is a write off in terms of a promotion push so it is likely they might plump for someone in the Rowett mould who could achieve safety and would be relatively inexpensive to pay off on, say, a 2 year deal.

 

[tonyw]

I personally don’t get why there is any animosity towards managers that ‘jump ship’ for a better offer. They can get sacked within weeks of an appointment now so why not jump if an offer that suits them better comes along?

People shout for a manager to be sacked as soon as they hit a sticky patch but also shout snake at a manager when he gets offered something that suits him better financially an/or geographically.

A managers light shines brightly for a very brief period and then they are on the scrap heap. I certainly don’t begrudge anyone for grabbing what’s available before it all turns to s**t.

It’s as all part of the modern game as buying and selling players. I don’t really get the bitterness

I wouldn't say it's bitterness - I actually fully understand why Manning left us to go manage Bristol City - I'm just a little perplexed at the incredibly short term thinking in terms of both career path and earnings that so many of these young managers are adopting these days.

Take Manning's move to Norwich, for example. He's doing great at Bristol City, a club who haven't churned through managers that quickly recently, and has started to build a decent squad. He's likely earned himself a couple more years at least and if he can get them over the hump to the Premier League (possible - they weren't that far off last year, and this season there's a hell of a lot more opportunity at the top), then he's looking at serious, serious $$s and possibly a move to a PL/CH yo-yo type club, given his hipster manager profile.

Now? By moving to a very marginally bigger club in the same division and flunking it, he's got a massive payout in his pocket, but he's also ****ed up his reputation. He's going back to the lower leagues now, on a fraction of what he was earning, and it's going to take him years (and probably actually winning something) before he's built it back up to the point it was.....if he ever does.

Appleton is another classic example, made even worse by the fact that he didn't even move into a manager's position. I'm sure the pay-off from Leicester was nice, but a few years on and he's in the last chance saloon now. If he can't turn Shrewsbury around, his managerial career is probably done at 50.

And now Rob Edwards is doing the same thing - abandoning a job where he's rebuilding his reputation and building a lot of goodwill for a position at a very, very similar sized club where he's surely got a very, very high chance of failure.


I think more young managers should be looking at the Eddie Howe model. Don't jump at the first marginally bigger club to wink at you, instead knuckle down at a club that you've been able to mould over years and years and really achieve something. And then be in the running for one of the seriously big gigs when they come up. Even if he gets fired tomorrow (and he might), four-plus years of managing Newcastle will have made him more money than several Norwich/Wolves-sized payoff and his reputation is still mostly intact and he will get another good job when he wants one.

 

[Village-Yellow]

I wouldn't say it's bitterness - I actually fully understand why Manning left us to go manage Bristol City - I'm just a little perplexed at the incredibly short term thinking in terms of both career path and earnings that so many of these young managers are adopting these days.

Take Manning's move to Norwich, for example. He's doing great at Bristol City, a club who haven't churned through managers that quickly recently, and has started to build a decent squad. He's likely earned himself a couple more years at least and if he can get them over the hump to the Premier League (possible - they weren't that far off last year, and this season there's a hell of a lot more opportunity at the top), then he's looking at serious, serious $$s and possibly a move to a PL/CH yo-yo type club, given his hipster manager profile.

Now? By moving to a very marginally bigger club in the same division and flunking it, he's got a massive payout in his pocket, but he's also ****ed up his reputation. He's going back to the lower leagues now, on a fraction of what he was earning, and it's going to take him years (and probably actually winning something) before he's built it back up to the point it was.....if he ever does.

Appleton is another classic example, made even worse by the fact that he didn't even move into a manager's position. I'm sure the pay-off from Leicester was nice, but a few years on and he's in the last chance saloon now. If he can't turn Shrewsbury around, his managerial career is probably done at 50.

And now Rob Edwards is doing the same thing - abandoning a job where he's rebuilding his reputation and building a lot of goodwill for a position at a very, very similar sized club where he's surely got a very, very high chance of failure.


I think more young managers should be looking at the Eddie Howe model. Don't jump at the first marginally bigger club to wink at you, instead knuckle down at a club that you've been able to mould over years and years and really achieve something. And then be in the running for one of the seriously big gigs when they come up. Even if he gets fired tomorrow (and he might), four-plus years of managing Newcastle will have made him more money than several Norwich/Wolves-sized payoff and his reputation is still mostly intact and he will get another good job when he wants one.

Bang on.

 

[dickwalton1964]

I wouldn't say it's bitterness - I actually fully understand why Manning left us to go manage Bristol City - I'm just a little perplexed at the incredibly short term thinking in terms of both career path and earnings that so many of these young managers are adopting these days.

Take Manning's move to Norwich, for example. He's doing great at Bristol City, a club who haven't churned through managers that quickly recently, and has started to build a decent squad. He's likely earned himself a couple more years at least and if he can get them over the hump to the Premier League (possible - they weren't that far off last year, and this season there's a hell of a lot more opportunity at the top), then he's looking at serious, serious $$s and possibly a move to a PL/CH yo-yo type club, given his hipster manager profile.

Now? By moving to a very marginally bigger club in the same division and flunking it, he's got a massive payout in his pocket, but he's also ****ed up his reputation. He's going back to the lower leagues now, on a fraction of what he was earning, and it's going to take him years (and probably actually winning something) before he's built it back up to the point it was.....if he ever does.

Appleton is another classic example, made even worse by the fact that he didn't even move into a manager's position. I'm sure the pay-off from Leicester was nice, but a few years on and he's in the last chance saloon now. If he can't turn Shrewsbury around, his managerial career is probably done at 50.

And now Rob Edwards is doing the same thing - abandoning a job where he's rebuilding his reputation and building a lot of goodwill for a position at a very, very similar sized club where he's surely got a very, very high chance of failu
I think more young managers should be looking at the Eddie Howe model. Don't jump at the first marginally bigger club to wink at you, instead knuckle down at a club that you've been able to mould over years and years and really achieve something. And then be in the running for one of the seriously big gigs when they come up. Even if he gets fired tomorrow (and he might), four-plus years of managing Newcastle will have made him more money than several Norwich/Wolves-sized payoff and his reputation is still mostly intact and he will get another good job when he wants one.

Norwich are much bigger than Bristol City and he’s from there and supported them as a kid. I’d imagine an extra £250,000 a year in the pay packet too. I can totally understand him going there. I’m amazed people can’t see the pull of going home to a better job with better prospects, especially given the support he’d have of his wider family still being there too given the family tragedy he suffered.

 

[dickwalton1964]

I wouldn't say it's bitterness - I actually fully understand why Manning left us to go manage Bristol City - I'm just a little perplexed at the incredibly short term thinking in terms of both career path and earnings that so many of these young managers are adopting these days.

Take Manning's move to Norwich, for example. He's doing great at Bristol City, a club who haven't churned through managers that quickly recently, and has started to build a decent squad. He's likely earned himself a couple more years at least and if he can get them over the hump to the Premier League (possible - they weren't that far off last year, and this season there's a hell of a lot more opportunity at the top), then he's looking at serious, serious $$s and possibly a move to a PL/CH yo-yo type club, given his hipster manager profile.

Now? By moving to a very marginally bigger club in the same division and flunking it, he's got a massive payout in his pocket, but he's also ****ed up his reputation. He's going back to the lower leagues now, on a fraction of what he was earning, and it's going to take him years (and probably actually winning something) before he's built it back up to the point it was.....if he ever does.

Appleton is another classic example, made even worse by the fact that he didn't even move into a manager's position. I'm sure the pay-off from Leicester was nice, but a few years on and he's in the last chance saloon now. If he can't turn Shrewsbury around, his managerial career is probably done at 50.

And now Rob Edwards is doing the same thing - abandoning a job where he's rebuilding his reputation and building a lot of goodwill for a position at a very, very similar sized club where he's surely got a very, very high chance of failure.


I think more young managers should be looking at the Eddie Howe model. Don't jump at the first marginally bigger club to wink at you, instead knuckle down at a club that you've been able to mould over years and years and really achieve something. And then be in the running for one of the seriously big gigs when they come up. Even if he gets fired tomorrow (and he might), four-plus years of managing Newcastle will have made him more money than several Norwich/Wolves-sized payoff and his reputation is still mostly intact and he will get another good job when he wants one.

You seem to be forgetting why we have professions and careers. Why should people in football be any different to the rest of us in wanting to better themselves financially ? Football is an incredibly precarious profession. Manning might now never go higher than L1 or L2 - a decent income but not a life changing one. By going to Norwich on an hefty contract and collecting a very sizeable pay out, certainly in excess of £2-3m he’s probably set himself up for a good while, if not for life. The option ? Stay at Bristol on a dwindling contract, risk the sack and then where next ? Probably back to L1 or L2 with little more than a couple of years very good salary behind him. You, me and the rest support Oxford United, managers don’t have that affinity, it’s our leisure time but for them it’s nothing more than their 9 to 5 job and with one eye on their next career step.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

You seem to be forgetting why we have professions and careers. Why should people in football be any different to the rest of us in wanting to better themselves financially ? Football is an incredibly precarious profession. Manning might now never go higher than L1 or L2 - a decent income but not a life changing one. By going to Norwich on an hefty contract and collecting a very sizeable pay out, certainly in excess of £2-3m he’s probably set himself up for a good while, if not for life. The option ? Stay at Bristol on a dwindling contract, risk the sack and then where next ? Probably back to L1 or L2 with little more than a couple of years very good salary behind him. You, me and the rest support Oxford United, managers don’t have that affinity, it’s our leisure time but for them it’s nothing more than their 9 to 5 job and with one eye on their next career step.

I know this might be a radical idea to you but there is more to life than money.

 

[holdsteady]

The whole being patient and backing yourself to succeed at Bristol City doesn't make any sense, as if he did that their he would obviously back himself to succeed at Norwich as well, just get paid more whilst doing so. That it never happened, and he hasn't actually got a promotion anywhere yet to show it will ever happen, doesn't really matter, as had he had the same start at Bristol City as had he had at Norwich he would still have been sacked, the play off finish at MK Dons didn't save him and it wouldn't have at Bristol.

He obviously learned from what happened at MK Dons, he will move for money, can't say I blame him as there is no proof that he is actually going to benefit from staying around, he has no promotion on his CV to say it was just a matter of time, but his bank account is proof that he has profited from moving on.

How many of our fans on here give the manager much time in a bad run? What happened t the manager who actually got a promotion for us last last season?

I know this might be a radical idea to you but there is more to life than money.

Not in football.

 

[dickwalton1964]

I know this might be a radical idea to you but there is more to life than money.

But why would you be critical of someone who chased the best deal he can get ?

 

[dickwalton1964]

The whole being patient and backing yourself to succeed at Bristol City doesn't make any sense, as if he did that their he would obviously back himself to succeed at Norwich as well, just get paid more whilst doing so. That it never happened, and he hasn't actually got a promotion anywhere yet to show it will ever happen, doesn't really matter, as had he had the same start at Bristol City as had he had at Norwich he would still have been sacked, the play off finish at MK Dons didn't save him and it wouldn't have at Bristol.

He obviously learned from what happened at MK Dons, he will move for money, can't say I blame him as there is no proof that he is actually going to benefit from staying around, he has no promotion on his CV to say it was just a matter of time, but his bank account is proof that he has profited from moving on.

How many of our fans on here give the manager much time in a bad run? What happened t the manager who actually got a promotion for us last last season?

Not in football.

Very true. I’d have said his job at Bristol was relatively unsafe. Having got to the play offs then up goes the expectation for this season, the board and the natives would have got restless with slipping back into mid table obscurity which, in other seasons, would have been respectable and acceptable. At Norwich the long term expectation would obviously have been promotion but he’d have got a season and a bit to build something - eight straight home defeats ended that though. A juicy 3 or 4 year contract and a clean slate at Norwich as opposed to a diminishing contract and a perhaps unrealistic rise in expectation at Bristol - absolute no brainer.

 

[lodeyellow]

Very true. I’d have said his job at Bristol was relatively unsafe. Having got to the play offs then up goes the expectation for this season, the board and the natives would have got restless with slipping back into mid table obscurity which, in other seasons, would have been respectable and acceptable. At Norwich the long term expectation would obviously have been promotion but he’d have got a season and a bit to build something - eight straight home defeats ended that though. A juicy 3 or 4 year contract and a clean slate at Norwich as opposed to a diminishing contract and a perhaps unrealistic rise in expectation at Bristol - absolute no brainer.

It might’ve been a no-brainer, but as it’s transpired that he failed spectacularly at Norwich it obviously wasn’t. One could say that the episode has been a classic case of hubris involving Manning completely over-estimating his own abilities and suffering a humiliating nemesis as a result.

 

[werthersoriginal]

It might’ve been a no-brainer, but as it’s transpired that he failed spectacularly at Norwich it obviously wasn’t. One could say that the episode has been a classic case of hubris involving Manning completely over-estimating his own abilities and suffering a humiliating nemesis as a result.

Or is he underestimating his own abilities, and always chasing short-term profit rather than staying to build a team, because he doesn't really have faith in himself to do so?

 

[lodeyellow]

Or is he underestimating his own abilities, and always chasing short-term profit rather than staying to build a team, because he doesn't really have faith in himself to do so?

Can’t discount that as a possibility. Who knows? He might well be doing that subconsciously.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

But why would you be critical of someone who chased the best deal he can get ?

I was critical about his behaviours when leaving us.

 

[WE Yellow]

Sheehan sacked by Swansea.

Of the current bottom 8 that's now 4 who've sacked their managers this season.

Our turn soon

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Sheehan sacked by Swansea.

Of the current bottom 8 that's now 4 who've sacked their managers this season.

Our turn soon

I hope not. Would seem stupid to sack one of the most experienced Championship managers who constantly keeps clubs up and helps them over achieve. Even more so when we aren’t even in the bottom 3.

 

[ECYellow]

Sheehan sacked by Swansea.

Of the current bottom 8 that's now 4 who've sacked their managers this season.

Our turn soon

Very interesting situation at Swansea.

I would not be at all suprised to see them in the final relegation shake up in April. Their appointment is of paramount importance. From our perspective, here's hoping they take a punt on a Rooney or Terry type, or a foreign national that hasn't managed in the league.

 

[Northernyellow]

I wouldn't say it's bitterness - I actually fully understand why Manning left us to go manage Bristol City - I'm just a little perplexed at the incredibly short term thinking in terms of both career path and earnings that so many of these young managers are adopting these days.

Take Manning's move to Norwich, for example. He's doing great at Bristol City, a club who haven't churned through managers that quickly recently, and has started to build a decent squad. He's likely earned himself a couple more years at least and if he can get them over the hump to the Premier League (possible - they weren't that far off last year, and this season there's a hell of a lot more opportunity at the top), then he's looking at serious, serious $$s and possibly a move to a PL/CH yo-yo type club, given his hipster manager profile.

Now? By moving to a very marginally bigger club in the same division and flunking it, he's got a massive payout in his pocket, but he's also ****ed up his reputation. He's going back to the lower leagues now, on a fraction of what he was earning, and it's going to take him years (and probably actually winning something) before he's built it back up to the point it was.....if he ever does.

Appleton is another classic example, made even worse by the fact that he didn't even move into a manager's position. I'm sure the pay-off from Leicester was nice, but a few years on and he's in the last chance saloon now. If he can't turn Shrewsbury around, his managerial career is probably done at 50.

And now Rob Edwards is doing the same thing - abandoning a job where he's rebuilding his reputation and building a lot of goodwill for a position at a very, very similar sized club where he's surely got a very, very high chance of failure.


I think more young managers should be looking at the Eddie Howe model. Don't jump at the first marginally bigger club to wink at you, instead knuckle down at a club that you've been able to mould over years and years and really achieve something. And then be in the running for one of the seriously big gigs when they come up. Even if he gets fired tomorrow (and he might), four-plus years of managing Newcastle will have made him more money than several Norwich/Wolves-sized payoff and his reputation is still mostly intact and he will get another good job when he wants one.

Absolutely!- and if you look at the current 'elite' managers, I think they have all (apart from Guardiola and Arteta) had lengthy stints earlier in their careers where they worked in the lower leagues, and were often with a smaller club for a number of years. As you said, Manning has now screwed his career by job-hopping. Exactly what Appleton did- and Ferguson warned him (Appleton) about this repeatedly...

 

[Peterdev]

Can see Brendan Roger’s going there

 

[Peterdev]

Brendan Rodger’s return I think