EPL Man City charged

[90syeIlow]

Agreed. There is a strange consensus on here that it’s weird to like football and OUFC at the same time. You have to like Oxford and have no interest in the sport itself. Even better if you actively dislike the actual game, but still care about your local club for some reason.

Biggest cheating scandal in sporting history? Ignore it mate, it's not Oxford United.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

You were a big fan of Karl Robinson's style of football.

I've corrected it for you.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

There seems to be a load of Nirvana t-shirts about. I find it jarring because I always assumed Kurt Cobain would be completely against all of that stuff.

Like the number of people who were (a few years ago) wearing Motorhead t-shirts as a fashion thing. I suspect half of them would have run out screaming if you had taken them to see Lemmy et all in their pomp!

 

[Whingit]

Does anyone really think this stopped at the end of the 2017-18 season, surely an investigation into 2018-19 - present day is inevitable too.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

There seems to be a load of Nirvana t-shirts about. I find it jarring because I always assumed Kurt Cobain would be completely against all of that stuff.

There were plenty of Nirvana T-shirts for sale in the 90's/00's, all with the "happy face" logo (which Nirvana had trademark over).

They had tons of them for sale in HMV. The commercialisation of Nirvana is nothing new.

 

[sideshowrob]

Does anyone really think this stopped at the end of the 2017-18 season, surely an investigation into 2018-19 - present day is inevitable too.

The financial cheeting from 2009 to 2018 and players that they bought gave them a massive advantage which continues to this day. Even if the cheating stopped at this point the advantage continued because they were able to sell very high value players to re-invest in the squad and their success massively inflated their marketing power generating income they wouldn't have had, particularly from overseas.

 

[MarkG]

If they do strip Man City of their titles and trophies, I hope they just go for the Lance Armstrong approach of the TDF and just put a * to say no winners.

It's not like athletics where a gold or silver medal is for the most part an individual performance over one session. So it's relatively straight forward to upgrade second place in a sprint race to first.

Though we have had situations such as Chester's results being all nullified mid-season, with Beano's goals not counted, but yellow cards did. Or Southampton being thrown out of the play-offs after beating Middlesbrough, and Middlesbrough being reinstated.

 

[Bitter]

I was at the Middx-Leics One Day cup final the other week, and we saw a young lad, must have been about 5 years old tops, wearing a Nirvana Tee. Wonder what his favourite track is...

Indeed, young lass wearing a 'London Calling' t-shirt, had no idea what it meant when asked!

 

[Osei Yaw]

Given that Man City have cheated then there is a fair argument that every single one of the 714 points they gained during their period of deception was gained unfairly. The cheating lasted 9 seasons. That's an average of 79.3 points a season. They won 3 league titles during the period of cheating.

So it's only fair that they get relegated 3 leagues. And then they get a 79.3 point penalty every season for the next 9 seasons. Also the seasons where they won something get an asterisk next to them. They can keep all the trophies but only so they can sell them at a car boot sale to raise some cash now they're skint.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester until June, added: "I do actually thank the City Football Group and the wider ownership for the money that they didn't just put into the Etihad [Stadium] and the campus around it but also into the city".

Taking the Joe Hart route, I see.

 

[Whingit]

UAE are going to make it into a geopolitical issue and threaten to withdraw investment.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Biggest sports story in years. And yes it’s geo political as well.

You can’t break the rules on such an industrial scale , be investigated , offer up your evidence , get ‘convicted’ 115 tiimes over and then say you’ve got irrefutable evidence to show you’re not guilty.

It’s crazy.

Ciity must walk the plank and offer up mitigation now. To avoid being swallowed by the crocodiles.

Suggest they negotiate back from 50 point deduction and a huge fine. Let’s say £900 million.

The accounts over several years are dodgy. On a big scale. That’s criminal in the Uk by itself. Forget the PL rules.

Feel very sorry for their supporters ; they’ve been conned big time.

Wouldn’t be surprised if thereafter the club are sold.. There’s some big upside for the purchaser if they get the price right. I bet the Ghost of Charlie is looking at Manchester Piccadilly train timetables.

Ps Saudi seem to be playing a long game here. Believe there’s no love lost between them and the Emirates.

 

[tomoufc]

Where City are treading a very fine line between sporting sanctions and criminal charges is in the apparent systemic nature of their breaches, and that have been judged to have gone to significant lengths to disguise and hide their actions.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I basically think they're f*cked.

The sheer scale of their rule breaking means they have to be demoted quite a long way. To *not* do that sends a shocking message to every billionaire owner that the rules don't mean anything if you've got enough money.

I'd feel kind of sorry for their fans, but a line has to be drawn.

I feel sorry for their fans to an extent, but not for potentially having to watch league 2 football. No club has a god given right to play in the premier league and we all need a little humility. It’s depressing how fucked up football has been made by money though.

 

[tomoufc]

Biggest sports story in years. And yes it’s geo political as well.

You can’t break the rules on such an industrial scale , be investigated , offer up your evidence , get ‘convicted’ 115 tiimes over and then say you’ve got irrefutable evidence to show you’re not guilty.

It’s crazy.

Ciity must walk the plank and offer up mitigation now. To avoid being swallowed by the crocodiles.

Suggest they negotiate back from 50 point deduction and a huge fine. Let’s say £900 million.

The accounts over several years are dodgy. On a big scale. That’s criminal in the Uk by itself. Forget the PL rules.

Feel very sorry for their supporters ; they’ve been conned big time.

Wouldn’t be surprised if thereafter the club are sold.. There’s some big upside for the purchaser if they get the price right. I bet the Ghost of Charlie is looking at Manchester Piccadilly train timetables.

Ps Saudi seem to be playing a long game here. Believe there’s no love lost between them and the Emirates.

Maybe we’ll revisit the policy of allowing despotic totalitarian regimes to buy cultural assets in the UK? But probably not.

 

[bert]

I know nothing about the Premier League or any financial rules. Realistically, I have no real interest in the story either.

However, my ex-father-in-law, who passed in April, was talking to me about this case for years right up until the end. He was a lifelong man utd fan and an OUFC follower.

He really wanted to see that city were properly investigated and punished for their offences but I didn't understand the extent of what they were accused of. It's disgusting that it's taken so long.

If it is found, after appeal (because I'm sure that's where it'll go), that City did break financial rules for 9 years as I've heard on the radio today, the only realistic penalty is being kicked out of the Premier League. I'm talking league 2 or below for 9 years of cheating.

Financial penalties are not enough for stupidly rich men.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

Why should the EFL accept them? Send them out into the National League.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

Maybe we’ll revisit the policy of allowing despotic totalitarian regimes to buy cultural assets in the UK? But probably not.

Sounds like Thatcherism on steroids.

 

[holdsteady]

Etihad airways now considering legal action against the premier league, I have a feeling this will run and run for (even more) years.

 

[BicesterU]

Etihad airways now considering legal action against the premier league, I have a feeling this will run and run for (even more) years.

This was the next logical step, really.

If contracts with sponsors were a 'sham', then those sponsors surely must've realised that what they were paying was less than the value of the sponsorships that we're being announced.

I suspect this is City's plan - just drown the PL in law suits if various sorts, and hope that they fold to pressure. It's lawfare, basically.

 

[holdsteady]

This was the next logical step, really.

If contracts with sponsors were a 'sham', then those sponsors surely must've realised that what they were paying was less than the value of the sponsorships that we're being announced.

I suspect this is City's plan - just drown the PL in law suits if various sorts, and hope that they fold to pressure. It's lawfare, basically.

Yeah, I think the premier leagues hope for a quick resolution is a pipe dream, any punishment, that Man City don’t agree to, will be tied up in the courts for years and cost absolute fortunes.

 

[LegoGiraffee]

If the Premier league is brought into lawsuits see that ending badly, paticularly as Etihad is pratically a part of the state when they need it to be and a private company when thats easier.

Burnham making his comments, if the city of Manchester loses loads of jobs and economically stalls he will lose more from that than any football fallout. The politics of the whole thing will make the punishment smaller than most hope for I reckon.

I'm pessimistic about the whole thing. And also do get annoyed by the fans of over "big 6" clubs talking about how "Newcastle and Villa" might do the same if City are not punished enough, as if anything upsetting the applecart of big clubs is the worst thing possible. PSR needs to change as as it stands it just says "the pyramid in 2012 was pretty much fine so preserve the top and the rest will be fine". Ideally something that encourages fan ownership would come along but doubt that.

 

[tomoufc]

I know nothing about the Premier League or any financial rules. Realistically, I have no real interest in the story either.

However, my ex-father-in-law, who passed in April, was talking to me about this case for years right up until the end. He was a lifelong man utd fan and an OUFC follower.

He really wanted to see that city were properly investigated and punished for their offences but I didn't understand the extent of what they were accused of. It's disgusting that it's taken so long.

If it is found, after appeal (because I'm sure that's where it'll go), that City did break financial rules for 9 years as I've heard on the radio today, the only realistic penalty is being kicked out of the Premier League. I'm talking league 2 or below for 9 years of cheating.

Financial penalties are not enough for stupidly rich men.

For Vic

Not just cheating, but lying their faces off for 5 years to those investigating

 

[tomoufc]

Sounds like Thatcherism on steroids.

Lots of footee podcasts are making the link between what Man City have done and the general state of politics and public services

 

[Mateo Corbo's Tackle]

(X - n) - y = z

Where:

X = number of expected Man City points this season
n = margin of error coefficient
y = points deduction
z = 41

Simple.

 

[Ewes]

Why should the EFL accept them? Send them out into the National League.

Exactly. All the suggestions of demoting Citeh a division or two are missing the point. They should have their club registration revoked for massively and repeatedly breaking many rules. Leave it up to the club to decide if they want to apply to join a lower league. But remove them from the PL, all domestic and European cups, and also encourage the EFL not to let them join.

No need for relegating them. Just kick them out and remove their licence to operate.

 

[Common Villager]

That Man City have been found guilty is a really sad reflection on the state of global football. The amount of money being thrown around now is would be laughable if it wasn't so harmful to the game. Average players going for £100m+ ffs.

I don't really know what the appropriate punishment should be or if there even is one. If they are demoted to LG2, say, surely they must also be given a hefty points deduction as it would be unfair to teams competing at that level if not. (Side note, I had a very quick gander at the Man Cuty forum and had to chuckle at one poster who was insistent that Haaland would want to play for them in LG2).

I do have some nagging concerns that Man City might just be the 'best' of the cheaters, and that is why I would be hesitant to retrospectively award titles. The Premier League seemed oblivious to what we now know is blatant cheating, what's to say Man Utd weren't also breaking the rules but perhaps to a lesser extent? Do we really believe that every other PL club has complied with the rules 100% of the time? I don't think I do. (Haven't Chelsea already admitted that they broke some rules?).

It also raises the question as to whether FFP is fit for purpose. Having expenditure linked to revenue is always going to act as a glass ceiling for 'lesser' clubs with high aspirations and undoubtedly serves the interest of the 'bigger' clubs. Perhaps a salary cap would be more appropriate and level the playing field in a fairer manner.

The litigation involved is going to be mind-boggling. Surely every club who played them in the league and cup competitions will be filing claims (including us). I don't know where the line is drawn.

 

[Morris Oxford]

If the Premier league is brought into lawsuits see that ending badly, paticularly as Etihad is pratically a part of the state when they need it to be and a private company when thats easier.

Burnham making his comments, if the city of Manchester loses loads of jobs and economically stalls he will lose more from that than any football fallout. The politics of the whole thing will make the punishment smaller than most hope for I reckon.

Burnham was Mayor of Greater Manchester for 9 years 2017 - 2026.

This is his heartland, his power base.

Politics is now a big part of this. I suspect the punishment will be lenient if and when it comes.

The City of Manchester may have benefited from the United Arab Emirates‘ cash, but the legitimacy of football in this country has not and is now in tatters.

 

[dickwalton1964]

It will be hefty (but nothing to the owners) fine, a big (but not relegate them) points deduction and a transfer ban (with at least one window of that suspended) and that will be that.

It will be more than that and much more severe. I would say the points deduction will definitely relegate them.

 

[holdsteady]

It will be more than that and much more severe. I would say the points deduction will definitely relegate them.

Considering how many points the team they have will get and how low the points total to stay up can be in the premier league to guarantee they are relegated you are probably talking 65 points, which would then leave a premier league team with nothing to play for in the league, might as well just boot them out and not ruin the competition.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

Considering how many points the team they have will get and how low the points total to stay up can be in the premier league to guarantee they are relegated you are probably talking 65 points, which would then leave a premier league team with nothing to play for in the league, might as well just boot them out and not ruin the competition.

If my understanding of the PL/EFL rules are correct, if Man City have a massive points deduction and are relegated, the would just play in the Championship in 2007-28. If they are expelled from the PL, they would need to apply to the EFL for entry and, if accepted, that would require them to start in League 2. I don't believe that, under their own rules, there is a mechanism for the EFL to just insert City into the Championship.

The threat of expulsion vs relegation is one of the more influential cards the PL has.