EPL Man City charged

[Village-Yellow]

Exactly my thoughts.

Would we have still been in breach of any rules had we not been relegated?

 

[Village-Yellow]

Any punishment imposed on Manchester City could have huge ramifications outside football according to this article in yesterday’s Guardian.

The Manchester City case shows us how the global mega-rich now expect to operate with impunity | Jonathan Liew

When transnational alliances have scarcely been weaker, the way the club was allegedly run offers a bleak vision of a world driven by brute power and wealth, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Liew

www.theguardian.com

“… this is not simply a football club but a beloved cultural asset that happens to be majority-owned by the billionaire Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan, deputy prime minister of the UAE and brother of the president. Since the Premier League announced the charges against City in 2023, the case has been discussed not merely at boardroom level but at a diplomatic level. Just last month, Bloomberg reported UAE officials warning that an adverse verdict against City could threaten billions in Emirati investment in the UK. Bilateral trade between the countries nudged above £25bn in 2025.”

Ah, so we have to give in to the brown envelope.

Sounds about right.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Not to absolve them of what they've done, but the FFP rules only exist to keep the "Top six" teams entrenched in their position and doesn't allow any other team to become "big". Newcastle have the richest owners in the world, but have to sell players due to FFP. Look at how Villa have been gutted to keep within the rules. And let's be honest, who hasn't enjoyed seeing another team challenging United, Chelsea etc, and with good, attractive football.

Me, because it wasn’t another team challenging the others, Man City were so far ahead of the others that it was the same most seasons. It is now obvious why they were so far ahead too, because they were cheating.

On a side note, it never goes down well on an Oxford United forum to refer Man U as ‘United’

 

[holdsteady]

Me, because it wasn’t another team challenging the others, Man City were so far ahead of the others that it was the same most seasons. It is now obvious why they were so far ahead too, because they were cheating.

On a side note, it never goes down well on an Oxford United forum to refer Man U as ‘United’

But why would an Oxford United fan care which cheating bastard prevails in winning the prem? I watch it but I don't really give a s**t who wins, this man city affair is amusing, seeing the worlds most disgusting fan base in Liverpool crying because they were cheated out of yet more trophies (they have done much worse themselves) is quite funny to me.

Man City obviously cheated in some form but the owners did it to get around rules put into protect the likes of Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal, a lot of the whining comes from glory hunting bed wetting fans of those clubs who were denied what they thought was theirs by right, trophies, just because those clubs spent fortunes years ago to get where they were.

Why is Man City and Newcastle owners today spending a fortune to catch up worse than when Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal did it in the past? Thats essentially saying they bought the league in perpetuity way back when.

Plus why is it fine for the Glazers to take a fortune out in milking that rigged system, how is that better?

I don't get Oxford fans defending to the hilt a system that means that every club will pretty much stay where they roughly are (unless they are run by Disney as a tv show), if it all comes tumbling down then f**k it, Man City are a symptom of the disease not the actual disease.

Have a flat wage cap in each division if you want proper financial rules, not what we have at the moment.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

And let's be honest, who hasn't enjoyed seeing another team challenging United, Chelsea etc, and with good, attractive football.

Why would I, an Oxford United supporter, get any 'enjoyment' out of seeing Manchester City - bankrolled by corrupt oligarchs and managed (for the bulk of that time) by a fraud of a manager who has nothing but contempt for English football - being successful?

Let alone playing 'good, attractive football'. Whatever the horrific f*ck that means.

F*ck them all.

 

[m]

Would we have still been in breach of any rules had we not been relegated?

Certainly not the same rule, no.

 

[holdsteady]

I actually enjoyed Chelsea breaking up the Man U/Arsenal duopoly more than Man City, it had been done by then and Man City tried to do it with class (which given the wealth behind them was easy enough) whereas Chelsea were proper horrible, new money, wide boy c***s, from the top down, Harry Enfield's loads of money come to life in football.

They were both at it obviously, just Chelsea not bothering to learn to eat with the correct cutlery was more fun than Man City trying to join a club that obviously didn't want them.

 

[TL@69]

Police may investigate to see if criminal charges apply.

 

[BicesterU]

Man City are saying they have ‘irrefutable evidence’ that they are innocent of all the charges - ok, great - let’s see it then.

Straight from the FOSB Rules of Law.

"We've got irrefutable proof, it's not our fault that all signs point to it being made up!"

 

[Yellowmania]

Be interesting to see the PFA reaction to any penalties applied that affect the players earnings. The upshot for them was that Man City raised the already ludicrous threshold on player wagers obscenely higher (as did Chelsea and co with 7 year deals, etc).
They can’t have it both ways, the majority of the cheated money went towards the players wages and transfer fees.

 

[BicesterU]

Where City are treading a very fine line between sporting sanctions and criminal charges is in the apparent systemic nature of their breaches, and that have been judged to have gone to significant lengths to disguise and hide their actions.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I basically think they're f*cked.

The sheer scale of their rule breaking means they have to be demoted quite a long way. To *not* do that sends a shocking message to every billionaire owner that the rules don't mean anything if you've got enough money.

I'd feel kind of sorry for their fans, but a line has to be drawn.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Where City are treading a very fine line between sporting sanctions and criminal charges is in the apparent systemic nature of their breaches, and that have been judged to have gone to significant lengths to disguise and hide their actions.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I basically think they're f*cked.

The sheer scale of their rule breaking means they have to be demoted quite a long way. To *not* do that sends a shocking message to every billionaire owner that the rules don't mean anything if you've got enough money.

I'd feel kind of sorry for their fans, but a line has to be drawn.

I remember them losing to the likes of Chester and Stockport in the league, they'll be fine if they are demoted. In fact their fans speak fondly about playing Gillingham.

 

[RgYellows]

I remember them losing to the likes of Chester and Stockport in the league, they'll be fine if they are demoted. In fact their fans speak fondly about playing Gillingham.

My favourite genre of Man City fans are the younger adults wearing retro kits, to prove that they’re so loyal they were attending games that took place before they were born.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

But why would an Oxford United fan care which cheating bastard prevails in winning the prem? I watch it but I don't really give a s**t who wins, this man city affair is amusing, seeing the worlds most disgusting fan base in Liverpool crying because they were cheated out of yet more trophies (they have done much worse themselves) is quite funny to me.

Man City obviously cheated in some form but the owners did it to get around rules put into protect the likes of Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal, a lot of the whining comes from glory hunting bed wetting fans of those clubs who were denied what they thought was theirs by right, trophies, just because those clubs spent fortunes years ago to get where they were.

Why is Man City and Newcastle owners today spending a fortune to catch up worse than when Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal did it in the past? Thats essentially saying they bought the league in perpetuity way back when.

Plus why is it fine for the Glazers to take a fortune out in milking that rigged system, how is that better?

I don't get Oxford fans defending to the hilt a system that means that every club will pretty much stay where they roughly are (unless they are run by Disney as a tv show), if it all comes tumbling down then f**k it, Man City are a symptom of the disease not the actual disease.

Have a flat wage cap in each division if you want proper financial rules, not what we have at the moment.

As a football fan I enjoy watching all levels of football such as the Premier League, Italian league, Dutch league, Belgian league, Scottish league, non league football and the Welsh leagues. I want to see a completive league between the best teams without the cheating such as Man City have done. That's not to say there isn't corruption in any other level of football because there is but what Man City have done is take it to a whole new level.

 

[RgYellows]

As a football fan I enjoy watching all levels of football such as the Premier League, Italian league, Dutch league, Belgian league, Scottish league, non league football and the Welsh leagues. I want to see a completive league between the best teams without the cheating such as Man City have done.

Agreed. There is a strange consensus on here that it’s weird to like football and OUFC at the same time. You have to like Oxford and have no interest in the sport itself. Even better if you actively dislike the actual game, but still care about your local club for some reason.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

Be interesting to see the PFA reaction to any penalties applied that affect the players earnings. The upshot for them was that Man City raised the already ludicrous threshold on player wagers obscenely higher (as did Chelsea and co with 7 year deals, etc).
They can’t have it both ways, the majority of the cheated money went towards the players wages and transfer fees.

And signing on fees, agents fees, and so on...

To give some scale, in 2017-18, Man City "posted record revenue of £500.5 million". If the £830m they "injected" into the club was equally spread over the 9 seasons (which is unlikely), that would represent 18.5% of their revenue for that year.

That's a staggering amount.

In 2008-09, Man City made £18m in commercial revenue, this exploded to £143m in 2012-13 (approx. 700% increase).

 

[SteMerritt]

My favourite genre of Man City fans are the younger adults wearing retro kids, to prove that they’re so loyal they were attending games that took place before they were born.

I was at the Middx-Leics One Day cup final the other week, and we saw a young lad, must have been about 5 years old tops, wearing a Nirvana Tee. Wonder what his favourite track is...

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Agreed. There is a strange consensus on here that it’s weird to like football and OUFC at the same time. You have to like Oxford and have no interest in the sport itself. Even better if you actively dislike the actual game, but still care about your local club for some reason.

It does at least explain some of the weird views people have of our games if their only knowledge of football is through Oxford United.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The punishment given to them will be interesting.

There is no point in even a huge fine as a one off. They are backed by the Saudi sovereign wealth fund (supposedly managing $1.7 trillion!). The only way a financial penalty would make much sense is if the amount they cheated by has to be paid back by reducing the amount they are allowed to spend on players each season until they have paid it off. Obviously they would also have to abide by whatever financial rules are in place in whatever division they were (hopefully) relegated to.

Because otherwise, they would just be relegated to L2, treat it as a bit of a laugh and be back in the Prem in three years. So you have to relegate them AND reduce their spending power AND make sure they can't just keep the players they have got (!!!!).

You could retrospectively take some of their Prem titles off them, but pfft - that's all in the past.

Of course the whole thing is smelly, but the Prem is basically built on money rather than football.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

The punishment given to them will be interesting.

There is no point in even a huge fine as a one off. They are backed by the Saudi sovereign wealth fund (supposedly managing $1.7 trillion!). The only way a financial penalty would make much sense is if the amount they cheated by has to be paid back by reducing the amount they are allowed to spend on players each season until they have paid it off. Obviously they would also have to abide by whatever financial rules are in place in whatever division they were (hopefully) relegated to.

Because otherwise, they would just be relegated to L2, treat it as a bit of a laugh and be back in the Prem in three years. So you have to relegate them AND reduce their spending power AND make sure they can't just keep the players they have got (!!!!).

You could retrospectively take some of their Prem titles off them, but pfft - that's all in the past.

Of course the whole thing is smelly, but the Prem is basically built on money rather than football.

The charges are all in the past too so saying there is no point in stripping them of their titles is like saying there is no point punishing them at all.

 

[Marked Ox]

And signing on fees, agents fees, and so on...

To give some scale, in 2017-18, Man City "posted record revenue of £500.5 million". If the £830m they "injected" into the club was equally spread over the 9 seasons (which is unlikely), that would represent 18.5% of their revenue for that year.

That's a staggering amount.

In 2008-09, Man City made £18m in commercial revenue, this exploded to £143m in 2012-13 (approx. 700% increase).

Not disputing your point but on the bottom one, how has Wrexham's changed? Theirs must be similarly dramatic in % terms from what they were getting pre Hollywood takeover?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The charges are all in the past too so saying there is no point in stripping them of their titles is like saying there is no point punishing them at all.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Yes strip them of the titles - but in terms of what happens NEXT it has little or no effect.

 

[Leysboy]

Give them a 30 point deduction for the next 9 seasons or the amount of years they’ve cheated, and start them off in Lge 2.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

Not disputing your point but on the bottom one, how has Wrexham's changed? Theirs must be similarly dramatic in % terms from what they were getting pre Hollywood takeover?

Wrexham's finances: Record revenue, bumper wages and room for more

BBC Sport Wales address the key talking points to emerge following the release of Championship club Wrexham's latest financial accounts.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Marked Ox]

The punishment given to them will be interesting.

There is no point in even a huge fine as a one off. They are backed by the Saudi sovereign wealth fund (supposedly managing $1.7 trillion!). The only way a financial penalty would make much sense is if the amount they cheated by has to be paid back by reducing the amount they are allowed to spend on players each season until they have paid it off. Obviously they would also have to abide by whatever financial rules are in place in whatever division they were (hopefully) relegated to.

Because otherwise, they would just be relegated to L2, treat it as a bit of a laugh and be back in the Prem in three years. So you have to relegate them AND reduce their spending power AND make sure they can't just keep the players they have got (!!!!).

You could retrospectively take some of their Prem titles off them, but pfft - that's all in the past.

Of course the whole thing is smelly, but the Prem is basically built on money rather than football.

Relegate them to the Manchester Senior Lg. See if the sovereign fund is still interested when it will take them a few years just to get into the NW Counties top flight, where they could play a Motorway Service Station, Charnock Richard, and the 2nd team in Barrow, Holker Old Boys.

Of course it won't happen but AFC Wimbledon started at a level on a par or not much higher in the pyramid than the NW Counties, so only right they start lower.

 

[RgYellows]

I was at the Middx-Leics One Day cup final the other week, and we saw a young lad, must have been about 5 years old tops, wearing a Nirvana Tee. Wonder what his favourite track is...

This one is uncomfortably close to my teenage self complaining that other bands were “so manufactured”. I still have no idea what it means. I don’t even like music.

It does at least explain some of the weird views people have of our games if their only knowledge of football is through Oxford United.

I enjoyed the rumour that the Southampton spy was castigated by their management for not providing enough to give them an idea of what we planned to do. The assumption that we planned to do anything, let alone decided what it would be in advance.

 

[Swinny]

The whole thing stinks - from their denial to them seemingly gaming the transfer market this summer because they knew what was coming, and the apparent threats of losing investment in the UK if the sanction is too harsh. We've let insane money absolutely ruin the top-levels of football, and that's trickled down the leagues steadily for years.

Regardless of whether the rules are correct or not, you can't just decide to ignore them and claim the moral high-ground with talk of wonky "red cartel" conspiracy etc when caught.

Alas I think it's now just going to be a willy-waving competition between the PL and City's owners/lawyers to see who has the most money/patience - and that probably means only 1 "winner" eventually.

I would like to see the PL, EFL, UEFA etc all get together and come up with a workable FFP solution that seeks to protect clubs but that also doesn't punish those with (fair) ambition...but that requires conversations about money in football that I imagine none of them really want to have.

 

[Osei Yaw]

I was at the Middx-Leics One Day cup final the other week, and we saw a young lad, must have been about 5 years old tops, wearing a Nirvana Tee. Wonder what his favourite track is...

There seems to be a load of Nirvana t-shirts about. I find it jarring because I always assumed Kurt Cobain would be completely against all of that stuff.

 

[holdsteady]

It does at least explain some of the weird views people have of our games if their only knowledge of football is through Oxford United.

You are a big fan of Karl Robinson so you obviously ain't gaining much from all this Guatamalan second division football you watch.

It wasn't really my point, I watch plenty of football (even international football which is the biggest hoodoo on here, its ok to watch Welsh football but watch and England qualifier and you are beneath contempt), but that why do Oxford fans really care who comes out on top between Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool etc, all clubs that would gladly see us gone and whose fans are view us with complete contempt if the go so far as to acknowledge our existence. Let them all cut each others throats I say, soap opera clubs.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

I would like to see the PL, EFL, UEFA etc all get together and come up with a workable FFP solution that seeks to protect clubs but that also doesn't punish those with (fair) ambition...but that requires conversations about money in football that I imagine none of them really want to have.

The PL did agree to replace PSR with SCR from this season. Does this helps Villa or Newcastle?

Interestingly, Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton, Crystal Palace, Fulham and Leeds are the clubs that voted against it.