General Mackie

Actually, taking Mackie out of the game briefly is probably a GOOD thing.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Interesting that Mackie’s ‘dog chasing a tennis ball’ routine in relation to running towards a goalkeeper is seen as a positive by so many. He never gets near it before it’s smashed clear, and while it might make the good old fashioned English football fans wipe a tear away, it means he’s offside for the next 15-odd seconds while he trots back in line with their defence. Meanwhile if we win the header or the second ball there’s nobody up top to look for, so the ball has to go backwards or sideways which pins us in and stops us being able to attack / counter effectively. By the time he is back onside, even if we have the ball the other team is set.

To think this charade is in any way positive is to fundamentally ignore the game in front of you. When you play an isolated central striker it becomes a problem if they’re always gallivanting around chasing the goalie. Ever wondered why players higher up don’t indulge in this routine to anywhere near this extent? It’s for that very reason - it takes them out of the game for a sustained period of time as well as needlessly running down their stamina. They will only do it if they know the keeper will play it short and therefore they won’t be left stranded 30-40 yards offside, and the only sides you will see doing it often are the ones who have a pair up front who like to bash about a bit, such as Burnley, where one chases down and the other doesn’t, so that they’re available to receive the ball in the event that the defence / midfield wins it back. If you’re old fashioned and think that blindly running towards the goalkeeper ten times a game makes someone a hero then I can understand why you’d think Jamie Mackie is great, but all it does is take him out of the game and lose us the ability to get going. Especially since it isn’t even like he goes towards the keeper and then arcs his run and comes back to get onside quickly, but rather goes full a**e in the air, Kung fu kick, flying past the goalkeeper to show how committed he is. It doesn’t do anything.

Still, at least when he bundles in his third goal in near on 40 appearances at some point in the next half a dozen matches, it’ll give me the joy of seeing people trying to make out that it proves he’s great.
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his record is nothing short of hideous barely any assists and I have witnessed him score one goal this season, brownes stats against blackpool alone match Mackies for the season :) that's perspective for ya
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Interesting that Mackie’s ‘dog chasing a tennis ball’ routine in relation to running towards a goalkeeper is seen as a positive by so many. He never gets near it before it’s smashed clear, and while it might make the good old fashioned English football fans wipe a tear away, it means he’s offside for the next 15-odd seconds while he trots back in line with their defence. Meanwhile if we win the header or the second ball there’s nobody up top to look for, so the ball has to go backwards or sideways which pins us in and stops us being able to attack / counter effectively. By the time he is back onside, even if we have the ball the other team is set.

To think this charade is in any way positive is to fundamentally ignore the game in front of you. When you play an isolated central striker it becomes a problem if they’re always gallivanting around chasing the goalie. Ever wondered why players higher up don’t indulge in this routine to anywhere near this extent? It’s for that very reason - it takes them out of the game for a sustained period of time as well as needlessly running down their stamina. They will only do it if they know the keeper will play it short and therefore they won’t be left stranded 30-40 yards offside, and the only sides you will see doing it often are the ones who have a pair up front who like to bash about a bit, such as Burnley, where one chases down and the other doesn’t, so that they’re available to receive the ball in the event that the defence / midfield wins it back. If you’re old fashioned and think that blindly running towards the goalkeeper ten times a game makes someone a hero then I can understand why you’d think Jamie Mackie is great, but all it does is take him out of the game and lose us the ability to get going. Especially since it isn’t even like he goes towards the keeper and then arcs his run and comes back to get onside quickly, but rather goes full a**e in the air, Kung fu kick, flying past the goalkeeper to show how committed he is. It doesn’t do anything.

Still, at least when he bundles in his third goal in near on 40 appearances at some point in the next half a dozen matches, it’ll give me the joy of seeing people trying to make out that it proves he’s great.
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Whilst I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, one slight positive point in doing that which you’ve missed is that among some lower-league keepers who are uncomfortable with the ball at their feet, it stops them taking their time, looking up and delivering a measured ball into whoever they’re trying to kick it to - I have seen keepers hurry and rush their kicks when Mackie chases them down, which usually leads to it being a poorer, less dangerous kick and one more likely to be won by an Oxford player. It also gives the crowd a lift and raises the noise level a bit, which sometimes seems to galvanise the team as well. But yeah overall it’s a small point given that closing down the keeper is one of the only things he really offers at the moment.
 
HampshireYellow said:
Whilst I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, one slight positive point in doing that which you’ve missed is that among some lower-league keepers who are uncomfortable with the ball at their feet, it stops them taking their time, looking up and delivering a measured ball into whoever they’re trying to kick it to - I have seen keepers hurry and rush their kicks when Mackie chases them down, which usually leads to it being a poorer, less dangerous kick and one more likely to be won by an Oxford player. It also gives the crowd a lift and raises the noise level a bit, which sometimes seems to galvanise the team as well. But yeah overall it’s a small point given that closing down the keeper is one of the only things he really offers at the moment.
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I think it’s very much clutching at straws if we’re at the point where making people clap and winning the occasional throw in from a rushed kick constitutes a valuable contribution, but I see your point and mark it down accordingly.

Which brings me to the next point on the potential improvements agenda. Shorts - are they tight enough and should they be shorter?
 
Is it making someone a scapegoat when nobody is actually blaming him for anything?

Just (on what we have seen) that Agyei seems to offer a more constructive alternative.
 
There's no questioning his commitment and running (he's quicker than most on here appreciate) it's the constant fouling and "shithousery" which actually adds nothing positive. It's not his fault but he's been given the job as a centre forward which clearly he ain't, so come on KR start with a proper Centre Forward and then if you must play Mackie bring him on late in the game to disrupt the opposition when we are 3 up.:)
 
Take me home said:
There's no questioning his commitment and running (he's quicker than most on here appreciate) it's the constant fouling and "shithousery" which actually adds nothing positive. It's not his fault but he's been given the job as a centre forward which clearly he ain't, so come on KR start with a proper Centre Forward and then if you must play Mackie bring him on late in the game to disrupt the opposition when we are 3 up.:)
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Yeah, come on KR, start picking a team fit for purpose. You clearly know nothing which is evidenced by our constant failures this season!!!
 
Scotchegg said:
Yeah, come on KR, start picking a team fit for purpose. You clearly know nothing which is evidenced by our constant failures this season!!!
[/QUO



I know you're only joking but there's always room for improvement, even if you win every game 5-0 it could always be 6-0 and so on and so on. I think those wanting him replaced in the starting eleven have more validity than those who don't. Robinson isn't infallable, he's admitted a few times this season that he's been to blame and the case that he's making the wrong selections up top is a strong one. We have three strikers and two of those have three goals between them so it's not like those wanting Mackie out of the side are a load of fruitcakes who know nothing about football.
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Scotchegg said:
Yeah, come on KR, start picking a team fit for purpose. You clearly know nothing which is evidenced by our constant failures this season!!!
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Are you suggesting that fans shouldn’t have an opinion on who should be playing because we’re not the manager of the team?

Seems like a strange position to adopt on a forum of all places. Feel free to disagree with the (reasonable) point being made in a civil fashion, but to just be flippant and suggest that fans can’t have a view because the manager has us just outside the play-offs is a bit off.

I like KR a lot and feel we are making positive steps under his tenure. But let’s also not forget that the club is only in existence because of its fanbase, and they are allowed to have differing opinions, even if we happen to disagree with them.
 
MJB said:
Are you suggesting that fans shouldn’t have an opinion on who should be playing because we’re not the manager of the team?

Seems like a strange position to adopt on a forum of all places. Feel free to disagree with the (reasonable) point being made in a civil fashion, but to just be flippant and suggest that fans can’t have a view because the manager has us just outside the play-offs is a bit off.

I like KR a lot and feel we are making positive steps under his tenure. But let’s also not forget that the club is only in existence because of its fanbase, and they are allowed to have differing opinions, even if we happen to disagree with them.
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It was in response to the comment of "so come on KR start with a proper Centre Forward". And yes of course it was a flippant response, but we're not doing too badly for a team without a proper centre forward, second rate full backs etc, all depending on who is no longer the fans favourite.

Opinions are all valid, and mine is that football is now a squad game with people playing different roles within that squad. Not all are as obvious as others, but collectively all play a part in our success or otherwise. You can put a pinch of salt into a chocolate cake to bring out the other flavours, and Mackie brings others into the game in the very selfless role KR is asking him to play. Rather than focusing on the salt, focus on the chocolate cake and see that we're bloody tasty!!

KR is no fool. He knows Mackie's limitations but still selects him so I think we respect that and put our faith in everyone that plays rather than trying to create heroes and villains.
 
It’s quite simple really.

Taylor clearly has some sort of issue that needs managing, so can’t start every game, and Agyei has needed to be slowly introduced to senior football, and is now finally starting to show signs he could step up and be a first choice striker.

But in the meantime, Mackie has had to be used more often than any of us, and probably Robbo himself, would’ve liked. That’s just the way it is.

I’m sure Taylor will be first choice if he’s fully match fit, and Agyei will start getting more chances, and Mackie will be used as a sub, to unsettle defences during the last 15-20mins of games, but in the meantime the guys doing the best he can with an ageing body.

Give the guy a break!
 
Scotchegg said:
It was in response to the comment of "so come on KR start with a proper Centre Forward". And yes of course it was a flippant response, but we're not doing too badly for a team without a proper centre forward, second rate full backs etc, all depending on who is no longer the fans favourite.

Opinions are all valid, and mine is that football is now a squad game with people playing different roles within that squad. Not all are as obvious as others, but collectively all play a part in our success or otherwise. You can put a pinch of salt into a chocolate cake to bring out the other flavours, and Mackie brings others into the game in the very selfless role KR is asking him to play. Rather than focusing on the salt, focus on the chocolate cake and see that we're bloody tasty!!

KR is no fool. He knows Mackie's limitations but still selects him so I think we respect that and put our faith in everyone that plays rather than trying to create heroes and villains.
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I think that Mackie has a role to play too (albeit less so in the last third of the season I’d hope as Taylor, Browne and potentially Agyei should all be considered ahead of him up top from now on in my view).

I think you raise good points about Mackie’s attributes, but just don’t feel it’s necessary to counter an argument by saying that someone is wrong because it differs from the manager’s apparent view of things.

It reminds me of the view that all pundits should be ex-players as they understand the game better than those who haven’t played professionally. I’d compare Dean Saunders and Michael Cox for their relative footballing insights in such a scenario!
 
MJB said:
I think that Mackie has a role to play too (albeit less so in the last third of the season I’d hope as Taylor, Browne and potentially Agyei should all be considered ahead of him up top from now on in my view).

I think you raise good points about Mackie’s attributes, but just don’t feel it’s necessary to counter an argument by saying that someone is wrong because it differs from the manager’s apparent view of things.

It reminds me of the view that all pundits should be ex-players as they understand the game better than those who haven’t played professionally. I’d compare Dean Saunders and Michael Cox for their relative footballing insights in such a scenario!
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I certainly agree about pundits, and the wider point about opinions. But at varying points in this season we've had a large number of posters questioning the selection of Mous, Sykes, Hall, Long, Mackie (and many more to varying degrees). Yet we've still had a very good season which could end with promotion to our highest level in a generation. Not bad for a squad full of players who are not good enough!

Judging Mackie on goals scored will be like judging Kelly on headers won! Mackie has a very different role to Taylor and still makes a useful contribution.
 
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