National News London Bridge

If we look at rehabilitation, and directly linked to the original post, then three of those who intervened were serving or recently released prisoners (2 of whom are murderers). One of these has since gone on to work for the Prison Reform Trust and is making a real success of his life. So yes, rehabilitation works, or at least it can work. The vast majority of those serving indeterminate sentences (where the parole board decide if someone is safe to be released) do succeed in not returning to old ways. Some don't, and some of those make headlines for all the wrong reasons.

But you wouldn't say that schools fail because a small number leave without qualifications. Or the NHS fails because they are unable to save everyone. Prison, and the wider justice system, change lives for the better every single day. We just don't get to hear about the success stories unless they somehow find themselves thrown into a major world event (like London Bridge) - but even then the message gets lost.

Wouldn`t disagree with that at all. We "fix more folk" than we harm accidentally but they are the ones that make the headlines.

I would still be interning religious extremists though to ensure they receive rehabilitation. :)
 
If we look at rehabilitation, and directly linked to the original post, then three of those who intervened were serving or recently released prisoners (2 of whom are murderers). One of these has since gone on to work for the Prison Reform Trust and is making a real success of his life. So yes, rehabilitation works, or at least it can work. The vast majority of those serving indeterminate sentences (where the parole board decide if someone is safe to be released) do succeed in not returning to old ways. Some don't, and some of those make headlines for all the wrong reasons.

But you wouldn't say that schools fail because a small number leave without qualifications. Or the NHS fails because they are unable to save everyone. Prison, and the wider justice system, change lives for the better every single day. We just don't get to hear about the success stories unless they somehow find themselves thrown into a major world event (like London Bridge) - but even then the message gets lost.
I have great respect for the work you do, and the dignified way you communicate it. Those who work on the front line (mine is different) face a never ending task which is commonly not understood, not a dig at anyone, and often we have to educate those around us.
 
I have great respect for the work you do, and the dignified way you communicate it. Those who work on the front line (mine is different) face a never ending task which is commonly not understood, not a dig at anyone, and often we have to educate those around us.
Thank you.
 
Rehabilitation - Some people just do not deserve it and society would be better off if they had a long drop on a short rope.

Two teenage girls never got a second chance.


Would society be better off?

Capital punishment has been shown to make absolutely no difference to criminality rates for the most serious of offences.

Knowing that convictions for murder could lead to the death penalty could actually impact on convictions with juries being reluctant to see someone die as a result of their verdict.

Also successful convictions are likely to lead to appeal after appeal at a cost to the state and potentially seeing them in prison for several years waiting for conclusion.

Imprisoning someone with no hope of release means that they have no incentive to comply with rules. They would need to be segregated for their own safety and the safety of others. That significantly increases the cost of keeping them locked up.

And yet, statistically, those given life sentences are the ones least likely to reoffend and are examples of exactly why rehabilitation is a keystone in our criminal justice system.

I know that none of this would be of any comfort to the families of the two girls who were killed, or the thousands of other families who have had loved ones murdered, but it's sadly the case that society is no better off or even worse if we return to hanging.
 
Have people watched the itv 2 parter on the dna evidence in this case? Can’t remember the name of it.

Was interesting as the science was discovered and used. That the police were forced to accept the initial confession was false.

Also what happens to the dna samples after they had been tested for this case. As a groundbreaking discovery was there a precedent ? Are ink fingerprints stored or destroyed?
 
Have people watched the itv 2 parter on the dna evidence in this case? Can’t remember the name of it.

Was interesting as the science was discovered and used. That the police were forced to accept the initial confession was false.

Also what happens to the dna samples after they had been tested for this case. As a groundbreaking discovery was there a precedent ? Are ink fingerprints stored or destroyed?

This is pretty much the timeline for DNA sampling.

I would surmise ink fingerprints have since been digitally transposed? Quiet often see Police using handheld fingerprint scanners on TV programmes to establish the identity of folk.
 
Would society be better off?

Capital punishment has been shown to make absolutely no difference to criminality rates for the most serious of offences.

Knowing that convictions for murder could lead to the death penalty could actually impact on convictions with juries being reluctant to see someone die as a result of their verdict.

Also successful convictions are likely to lead to appeal after appeal at a cost to the state and potentially seeing them in prison for several years waiting for conclusion.

Imprisoning someone with no hope of release means that they have no incentive to comply with rules. They would need to be segregated for their own safety and the safety of others. That significantly increases the cost of keeping them locked up.

And yet, statistically, those given life sentences are the ones least likely to reoffend and are examples of exactly why rehabilitation is a keystone in our criminal justice system.

I know that none of this would be of any comfort to the families of the two girls who were killed, or the thousands of other families who have had loved ones murdered, but it's sadly the case that society is no better off or even worse if we return to hanging.

Answered your own question there I feel.
Whilst I understand you have a far better view of these things from the inside, there remain certain cases where society would be better off without these people.
According to Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole-life_orders) there are around 75 people who are serving whole life orders, many of whom either committed crimes beyond the realm of rehab or were released and subsequently killed again
Would we be better off without them? Yes.
Would it stop their offending? Yes.
Would they deserve it? Yes.
 
Answered your own question there I feel.
Whilst I understand you have a far better view of these things from the inside, there remain certain cases where society would be better off without these people.
According to Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole-life_orders) there are around 75 people who are serving whole life orders, many of whom either committed crimes beyond the realm of rehab or were released and subsequently killed again
Would we be better off without them? Yes.
Would it stop their offending? Yes.
Would they deserve it? Yes.

These people are serving whole life sentences so will never be released.

Society is already better off without them.
They have no opportunity to offend again.
They deserve to end their days in prison.

What is served by killing them?
 
As an aside, I see Colin Pitchfork has been recalled to prison after staff at the hostel he was housed in were increasingly concerned about his behaviour.
 
As an aside, I see Colin Pitchfork has been recalled to prison after staff at the hostel he was housed in were increasingly concerned about his behaviour.

And that is exactly how these things work. Life sentenced prisoners, especially those serving as long as he did, can really struggle to adapt to outside life. Therefore they spend some time in open prisons to help their long etrm resettlement, and are then released into approve premises for further supervision. The terms of their life licence means that they can be recalled at any time if risk increases, regardless of whether any further offences are committed.

I have absolutely no idea of these circumstances in this case, but concerns could start at things such as not engaging with others, not controlling medication, or general poor behaviour or could be more serious with not complying with licence conditions, breaching licences or directly or indirectly involved in risk of offending behaviour.

I guess the point is that this was spotted, managed and he was returned to custody to prevent any risk to him or the public. Depending on the circumstances he may be released once more in the coming weeks or he may have to go back through the cycle of being tested before a further parole board decision in several months or maybe years.

This is perfectly normal and happens every day.
 
And that is exactly how these things work. Life sentenced prisoners, especially those serving as long as he did, can really struggle to adapt to outside life. Therefore they spend some time in open prisons to help their long etrm resettlement, and are then released into approve premises for further supervision. The terms of their life licence means that they can be recalled at any time if risk increases, regardless of whether any further offences are committed.

I have absolutely no idea of these circumstances in this case, but concerns could start at things such as not engaging with others, not controlling medication, or general poor behaviour or could be more serious with not complying with licence conditions, breaching licences or directly or indirectly involved in risk of offending behaviour.

I guess the point is that this was spotted, managed and he was returned to custody to prevent any risk to him or the public. Depending on the circumstances he may be released once more in the coming weeks or he may have to go back through the cycle of being tested before a further parole board decision in several months or maybe years.

This is perfectly normal and happens every day.
Thanks for the explanation I always thought someone on license had to commit an offence no matter how small to be recalled.
 
And that is exactly how these things work. Life sentenced prisoners, especially those serving as long as he did, can really struggle to adapt to outside life. Therefore they spend some time in open prisons to help their long etrm resettlement, and are then released into approve premises for further supervision. The terms of their life licence means that they can be recalled at any time if risk increases, regardless of whether any further offences are committed.

I have absolutely no idea of these circumstances in this case, but concerns could start at things such as not engaging with others, not controlling medication, or general poor behaviour or could be more serious with not complying with licence conditions, breaching licences or directly or indirectly involved in risk of offending behaviour.

I guess the point is that this was spotted, managed and he was returned to custody to prevent any risk to him or the public. Depending on the circumstances he may be released once more in the coming weeks or he may have to go back through the cycle of being tested before a further parole board decision in several months or maybe years.

This is perfectly normal and happens every day.

Or a better option - he`s had his chance and blown it.

His victims didn`t get a second chance.

So, as we seem adverse to putting these creatures down, then that's it straight to "life means life" do not pass go do not get a third chance.
 
Or a better option - he`s had his chance and blown it.

His victims didn`t get a second chance.

So, as we seem adverse to putting these creatures down, then that's it straight to "life means life" do not pass go do not get a third chance.

You don't understand, that's fine.
 
You don't understand, that's fine.

He was released on licence and has already done "enough" to cause concern.

Ergo - not safe to be released and, as putting it down is frowned on, then lock that door for the rest of its natural.

Simple really.
 
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Are these constant digs to one another necessary? You can state you disagreement without extra remarks. That is a true forum method.
 
Are these constant digs to one another necessary? You can state you disagreement without extra remarks. That is a true forum method.

Duly noted, I edited my post to remove the retaliatory strike. :)
 
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