Other European League games abroad

I understand this, but I have to disagree.

For a few reasons.

First off - who are the 'Big Six'? Isn't this fluid? Liverpool, Manchester United - massive clubs at any time. Chelsea, Manchester City? Questionable. I assume this omits, for example, Leeds? Massive club but probably not included. I don't care who is or who isn't, but it's not like the situation north of the border where there is a natural and massive discrepancy so it doesn't feel inevitable.

Secondly, and linked to the above, what's to stop it happening again in twenty years even if you do allow it now? You siphon off the so-called big ones - Chelsea Cheetahs enjoy massive success vs Barcelona Buccaneers and the Thai population love it, but meanwhile the real passion is still found at Sunderland v Middlesbrough and so some other charlatan 'entrepreneur' comes up with a new dream and siphons these off? Rinse and repeat.

Thirdly, and most importantly (you touched on it, to be fair) we can all look at these 'Big Six' clubs as vehicles for foreign support or 'ballers league' cretins in the UK - but they all have proper supporters like us, too. They don't deserve this.

The problems and excesses in the football industry are not remedied by cutting loose those currently most infected - we need to deal with the issues at source. Even if that's the economic crash of the English football 'market' by some sort of government intervention that leads to 'investors' f*cking off to a 3rd rate Spanish club instead.

Which brings me to your last point (where we clearly agree) - let it go tits up. I would love nothing more than the foreign investment to run for the hills (or La Liga - where they have a mere fraction of our football culture) and be left with slightly fewer imports and slightly less wealthy players - but a Football League perfectly intact...

I was wondering who the big 6 would be, came up with the first 3 easy enough, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, then you have Man City, Chelsea, Spurs but can’t see the Saudi backed Newcastle being left out, they will buy there way in, they are not going to replace the Abu Dhabi backed Man City so one of the two London clubs in Chelsea and Spurs could be left behind. If they stick to just 6 in, that would leave Chelsea/Spurs, Everton, Villa, Leeds, Sunderland, West Ham which is still a decent amount of big clubs to build around, especially when you add in the Sheffield clubs, Wolves, West Brom, and some of the other historic clubs, up and coming clubs like Brighton, Norwich and Oxford ;) etc and you still have a decent base. You would always lose the very best players to the super league but they essentially only play for those clubs in most of their prime years anyway.
 
You said capitalism was the route of all evils, I just pointed out that we had an example of one much worse.

Fair enough. Perhaps I should have rephrased it. Obviously, there are other sources of evils, and it's debatable whether any one is 'worse' than the next (arguably, the negatives inflicted on the human race as a whole by capitalism are more profound than those caused by communist dictatorships).

The despicable effects of capitalism on the human race should not be overlooked or underestimated.
 
And yet another thread that was talking about football descends into political discussion.

Mods, is it possible to have specific threads for those that want to debate politics and leave the rest of us to talk nonsense about football please? I’ve set the obvious existing political threads to ‘ignore’ but it appears to be spreading across the board…..
 
And yet another thread that was talking about football descends into political discussion.

Mods, is it possible to have specific threads for those that want to debate politics and leave the rest of us to talk nonsense about football please? I’ve set the obvious existing political threads to ‘ignore’ but it appears to be spreading across the board…..
Everything has a political dimension, including football
 
And yet another thread that was talking about football descends into political discussion.

Mods, is it possible to have specific threads for those that want to debate politics and leave the rest of us to talk nonsense about football please? I’ve set the obvious existing political threads to ‘ignore’ but it appears to be spreading across the board…..

This thread has political overtones though, just like the regulator one. I would get your point if it was on a match day thread or transfer window one, but its kind of a narrow discussion if we can't explore outwards from football games abroad bad?
 
That's not a valid rationale.

It's not a binary decision. Either capitalism OR communism, is it?!
You said that capitalism is the route of ALL evil.
Capitalism is not perfect , but the alternative has almost always been authoritarian states, which in my view have generally been far worse.
North Korea, Chile , Uganda, Afghanistan, Russia/ Soviet Union and many many others, with genocide, murder of their own residents, the crushing of women's rights, in my view have been FAR worse than these alternatives.
Presumably you disagree.
 
And yet another thread that was talking about football descends into political discussion.

Mods, is it possible to have specific threads for those that want to debate politics and leave the rest of us to talk nonsense about football please? I’ve set the obvious existing political threads to ‘ignore’ but it appears to be spreading across the board…..
I think there's a balance to be struck. This one is in danger of spilling over into a discussion about something completely unrelated to the money grabbing arseholes in charge of some of Europes biggest football clubs.

We probably don't need a debate on communism in order to know how awful this idea is.
 
I think there's a balance to be struck. This one is in danger of spilling over into a discussion about something completely unrelated to the money grabbing arseholes in charge of some of Europes biggest football clubs.

We probably don't need a debate on communism in order to know how awful this idea is.

But you have to see where the parallels are struck between 'money grabbing arseholes', capitalism and geo-politics, right? They're all intrinsically linked, and because of that they're not completely unrelated. Isn't it healthy to have reasonable discussion about the causes of the situation football finds itself in?

Anyway, I'll step down as I'm boring myself, let alone anybody else!
 
Fair(ish) point about the links to politics on this thread but yesterday I expressed annoyance on the 'Ciaron Brown' thread when the Hindu Caste System and level of persecution stemming from Buddhism started to be discussed. Religion rather than politics I know but I would venture not particularly relevant to Ciaron Brown as a topic. I suppose I just want to talk about footy........
 
And yet another thread that was talking about football descends into political discussion.

Mods, is it possible to have specific threads for those that want to debate politics and leave the rest of us to talk nonsense about football please? I’ve set the obvious existing political threads to ‘ignore’ but it appears to be spreading across the board…..
Politics is life, man
 
Fair(ish) point about the links to politics on this thread but yesterday I expressed annoyance on the 'Ciaron Brown' thread when the Hindu Caste System and level of persecution stemming from Buddhism started to be discussed. Religion rather than politics I know but I would venture not particularly relevant to Ciaron Brown as a topic. I suppose I just want to talk about footy........
You seem to have forgotten the discussion about Ciaran Brown's Buddhist credentials
 
Fair(ish) point about the links to politics on this thread but yesterday I expressed annoyance on the 'Ciaron Brown' thread when the Hindu Caste System and level of persecution stemming from Buddhism started to be discussed. Religion rather than politics I know but I would venture not particularly relevant to Ciaron Brown as a topic. I suppose I just want to talk about footy........

Yep, I totally get that. I know I'm at risk of coming across like a right pretentious lefty a*****e, but I promise I'm not!

Lefty - probably.
a*****e - depends who you ask.
Pretentious - absolutely not!

As you say, this is a football forum, after all...
 
If the Sky money goes the whole of English/Scottish football will be in the crap. They have invested a lot more into British football than ITV Digital ever did. I said on this forum a few weeks back that football in England was in danger of going bankrupt, referring to the ridiculous sums clubs at our level were spending just to keep up. If the Sky pot disappears almost all clubs in the Championship and PL will be buggered (including us) as well as many below us. However much we may hate Sky (and I'm among those that does) there's no denying that the money they've been pumping into the game is relied upon by the majority of clubs to keep them above water

It would depend a little on the lead time - if the Sky money went, but the clubs had a few years to prepare (i.e. the European Super League happened at the beginning of a TV deal cycle) then they could survive. A lot of players would not get new contracts, and teams would be full of academy products playing on a tenth of what players get now - but I'm not entirely sure it's a bad thing.

Granted - if the Sky money disappeared with no warning, then we'd lose half of the clubs in the football league.


I understand this, but I have to disagree.

For a few reasons.

First off - who are the 'Big Six'? Isn't this fluid? Liverpool, Manchester United - massive clubs at any time. Chelsea, Manchester City? Questionable. I assume this omits, for example, Leeds? Massive club but probably not included. I don't care who is or who isn't, but it's not like the situation north of the border where there is a natural and massive discrepancy so it doesn't feel inevitable.

Secondly, and linked to the above, what's to stop it happening again in twenty years even if you do allow it now? You siphon off the so-called big ones - Chelsea Cheetahs enjoy massive success vs Barcelona Buccaneers and the Thai population love it, but meanwhile the real passion is still found at Sunderland v Middlesbrough and so some other charlatan 'entrepreneur' comes up with a new dream and siphons these off? Rinse and repeat.

Thirdly, and most importantly (you touched on it, to be fair) we can all look at these 'Big Six' clubs as vehicles for foreign support or 'ballers league' cretins in the UK - but they all have proper supporters like us, too. They don't deserve this.

The problems and excesses in the football industry are not remedied by cutting loose those currently most infected - we need to deal with the issues at source. Even if that's the economic crash of the English football 'market' by some sort of government intervention that leads to 'investors' f*cking off to a 3rd rate Spanish club instead.

Which brings me to your last point (where we clearly agree) - let it go tits up. I would love nothing more than the foreign investment to run for the hills (or La Liga - where they have a mere fraction of our football culture) and be left with slightly fewer imports and slightly less wealthy players - but a Football League perfectly intact...

So on a purely technical level - the Big 6 would be Man U, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal & Spurs. Those are the clubs that got invited to start the European Super League. Those are also the clubs that are in the top ten in the world by value (according to Forbes - https://www.forbes.com.au/news/sport/the-worlds-most-valuable-soccer-teams-2025/). So if it happened today, those are the clubs that would go. Newcastle are obviously trying desperately to get into that club, but despite their owners they are still absolutely nowhere near in terms of either revenues or brand value.....and those are the things that would matter most to whatever financial entity was pulling the whole thing together.
(we all like to laugh at the notion of Spurs as a big club, but their matchday revenues last year were about four times as high as Newcastle, and their commercial revenues about six times as high. They're a well run business with one of the best stadiums in the country, even if they're often a punchline on the pitch)

What's to stop the cycle happening again? Probably nothing. But if we had a couple of decades of concentrating on the football before money distorted it all again......wouldn't that be great?


I wouldn't mind your proposed alternative at all - the government regulating the industry to hell so that the foreign investment all left. That just feels massively less likely to me. It relies on the government acting in support of community and cultural matters to the detriment of big business. Seems a lot less likely to me than greed leading a bunch of football corporations to abandon their roots.
 
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