Karl Robinson - Is he right or wrong?

[Bath Yellow]

Am i right in thinking that Fosu and Baptiste went in the last week. I believe it was more or less certain they would be off along with Cadden, still not giving KR time to bring in replacements though

 

[brassmonkey]

Really. We had the best team in the league pre xmas and i have every belief we would have won the league had we kept the team together. The only missing piece was a back up to Taylor. I understand we need to sell but not replacing cadden and the timing of Baptiste/fosu was awful.

 

[Scotchegg]

Really. We had the best team in the league pre xmas and i have every belief we would have won the league had we kept the team together. The only missing piece was a back up to Taylor. I understand we need to sell but not replacing cadden and the timing of Baptiste/fosu was awful.

Our points per game ratio for games with Cadden or games with Long/Forde was virtually identical.
Fosu had been off the boil for a month or 2 when he left. Still a good player, but more than adequetely replaced with Browne. Fosu scored a goal every 243 minutes, Browne every 204 minutes. Fosu assisted 3, Browne 4 in less than half the playing time.
Baptiste is obviously an exceptional player who scored some great goals earlier this season. But we had cover in the middle of the pitch and wasn't missed as much as we may have feared. When he left we had 41 points from 26 games - 1.57ppg. In the 9 games after he left we picked up 19 points at 2.11ppg.

So the timing may have been awful, but I'm really struggling to see how our January transfer business "ruined" our season.

 

[daveoufc]

Haven't heard that before. Where is that from?

Jerome called Zaki out on it during a very awkward interview

 

[MC Yellow]

Assuming there is no wage cap how much would you like Tiger to spend on transfers and wages above what they spent this season?

I don't think I said give him more to spend did I? I am not sure if there is anymore.

If he was offered the same budget, maybe that would be enough for him to stay and maybe enough to keep us competitive.

But the climate is difficult isn’t it..... maybe the board will not want to invest the same as this year.

 

[brassmonkey]

Our points per game ratio for games with Cadden or games with Long/Forde was virtually identical.
Fosu had been off the boil for a month or 2 when he left. Still a good player, but more than adequetely replaced with Browne. Fosu scored a goal every 243 minutes, Browne every 204 minutes. Fosu assisted 3, Browne 4 in less than half the playing time.
Baptiste is obviously an exceptional player who scored some great goals earlier this season. But we had cover in the middle of the pitch and wasn't missed as much as we may have feared. When he left we had 41 points from 26 games - 1.57ppg. In the 9 games after he left we picked up 19 points at 2.11ppg.

So the timing may have been awful, but I'm really struggling to see how our January transfer business "ruined" our season.

Believe what you want. Karl obviously thinks the same as I do judging by his comments.

 

[Scotchegg]

Believe what you want. Karl obviously thinks the same as I do judging by his comments.

Every manager in the game wants more money to spend on more players on longer contracts, and not to lose anyone. Robinson is no different and make the case for building on what we have and to look to do our business early (including seeling if needed). That is perfectly rational.

Claiming that these sales ruined a season where we had our highest finish in 21 years and was, possibly, Henry smashing the ball in from 10 yards away from the championship, is insane.

 

[brassmonkey]

Your positivity is insane. We had a team to get promoted. We didnt get promoted we blew it. Karl and the players did an amazing job to get to the play off final despite losing 3 key players at a ridiculous time. Is that difficult to get your insane head around....

 

[tonyw]

I just don't see how you can blame the Board for Cadden leaving. It would be barking mad for a League One club that's in as much debt as we are to fork out a million quid for a right back. And Karl even said so himself at the time.

Want to blame anyone for our RB leaving in early January - blame Karl for signing someone to play that position on a half season loan.

Fosu/Baptiste - that's a different story, and the timing was horrific.
That being said, would we have finished Top Two or beaten Wycombe if we'd had them both? Hard to say. Rotherham turned us over comfortably in January with them both in the side - and that was the key (pre-Wembley) defeat of the season, as it turned out.

 

[OX14]

Pretty much yes.

Your not far off from being right to be honest. Before the January transfer window shut we were flying and everyone was tipping us to go up as champions. Then we sold fosu, baptise and lost Cadden and we hit a slump. It was only the last 5 games we won in a row that bought are ppg up considerably. Obviously Covid put a stop to the season and we may have continued the form and took second place, but we could of also ended up mid table. We wern't playing that great before lockdown it took a last minute ruffles header to even get us in to the play offs.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

In the nine league games we played after they had all left at the end of January we earned 19 points (out of 27 obviously). I am not convinced that is a huge slump. Having said that, would I have liked at least Baptiste in the side for the rest of the season? Yep, I certainly would.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Your not far off from being right to be honest. Before the January transfer window shut we were flying and everyone was tipping us to go up as champions. Then we sold fosu, baptise and lost Cadden and we hit a slump. It was only the last 5 games we won in a row that bought are ppg up considerably. Obviously Covid put a stop to the season and we may have continued the form and took second place, but we could of also ended up mid table. We wern't playing that great before lockdown it took a last minute ruffles header to even get us in to the play offs.

We’d won five in a row. Just be quiet

 

[Scotchegg]

If we are looking at the points per game over similar periods of the season;

Games 1-8 8pts 1ppg
Games 9-17 21pts 2.3ppg
Games 18-26 12pts 1.3ppg

Without Fosu/Bap
Games 27-35 19pts 2.1ppg

So the "slump" if there was one, had already happened. Our form between the transfer window and lockdown was better than Coventrys ppg meaning we would have won the league if rolled out over the season.

Not bad for a team that "weren't playing that great before the lockdown" and where our transfer business "pretty much ruined our season"!!!!

 

[battman]

I just don't see how you can blame the Board for Cadden leaving. It would be barking mad for a League One club that's in as much debt as we are to fork out a million quid for a right back. And Karl even said so himself at the time.

Want to blame anyone for our RB leaving in early January - blame Karl for signing someone to play that position on a half season loan.

I don't think Cadden leaving was the issue, more the lack of a replacement. The club knew he was likely going in November/December so had plenty of time to source a replacement. They failed to do that. Getting in a replacement could've been the difference between us having an awful Jan/early Feb and a decent one and, dare I say it, the difference between us being promoted via PPG and having to play in the play-offs.

 

[yellowbow]

Just seen the 1/2 hour Robinson interview with Jerome Sale on ifollow. As somebody else has already said, it’s a must watch for all supporters. Theres absolutely no doubt about how much he cares for this football club, and how much he’s hurting. Having seen it, my feelings are that his words about where we go from here, arent really directed at the board, its more him voicing his frustrations and feelings of concern about the general climate around football. This talk of a £2.5M wage cap in league 1 and a £18.5M wage cap in the championship is disgraceful and as Robinson says, is plainly the first steps in creating a Prem2. If it happens it will make the step up impossible.

I also feel a lot more optimistic about where the owners want to take us - if they are allowed to by the EFL!

 

[Peterdev]

Had we beaten Wycombe last Monday and most expected it, there would be little discussion about Fosu and Baptiste.
We were let down by an uncharacteristic poor performance by senior players who underperformed.
If we can retain most of our player we have to go again....I’m resigned to losing Brannagan and Dickie as well as Eastwood. Surely we can a few decent players who can challenge again.
My concern is whether we can retain Robinson next year. It will be difficult but there’s surely money to spend. I’m not sure how much Ipswich and Portsmouth have to spend but it depends how wisely it’s spent. I would back Robinson over Lambert and Jackett to get promotion.
Probably the biggest worry for Oxford is Sunderland...surely they won’t screw it up again will,they?

 

[Left Wing Cross]

I don't think Cadden leaving was the issue, more the lack of a replacement. The club knew he was likely going in November/December so had plenty of time to source a replacement. They failed to do that. Getting in a replacement could've been the difference between us having an awful Jan/early Feb and a decent one and, dare I say it, the difference between us being promoted via PPG and having to play in the play-offs.

It wasn't as if it wasn't for the lack of trying

At one point we were linked with five or so defenders, none of which came to anything.

 

[Manorlounger]

Just seen the 1/2 hour Robinson interview with Jerome Sale on ifollow. As somebody else has already said, it’s a must watch for all supporters. Theres absolutely no doubt about how much he cares for this football club, and how much he’s hurting. Having seen it, my feelings are that his words about where we go from here, arent really directed at the board, its more him voicing his frustrations and feelings of concern about the general climate around football. This talk of a £2.5M wage cap in league 1 and a £18.5M wage cap in the championship is disgraceful and as Robinson says, is plainly the first steps in creating a Prem2. If it happens it will make the step up impossible.

I also feel a lot more optimistic about where the owners want to take us - if they are allowed to by the EFL!

Just finished watching the same interview and fully endorse your comments.
A very interesting and honest interview. It says something that, despite poor sound (Jerome) and dodgy lighting (Chris) I watched and listened to the entire 30 minutes.
It is very encouraging to hear that KR spoke to all the directors after the final and does so on a regular basis. Not a collection of "train set" owners.

 

[tonyw]

Just seen the 1/2 hour Robinson interview with Jerome Sale on ifollow. As somebody else has already said, it’s a must watch for all supporters. Theres absolutely no doubt about how much he cares for this football club, and how much he’s hurting. Having seen it, my feelings are that his words about where we go from here, arent really directed at the board, its more him voicing his frustrations and feelings of concern about the general climate around football. This talk of a £2.5M wage cap in league 1 and a £18.5M wage cap in the championship is disgraceful and as Robinson says, is plainly the first steps in creating a Prem2. If it happens it will make the step up impossible.

I also feel a lot more optimistic about where the owners want to take us - if they are allowed to by the EFL!

To be fair, the proposed £18.5M wage cap in the championship would be extremely helpful for a club like ours in terms of competing at that level.

There's no way that we could operate with a wage bill that high, but the average Championship wage bill in 2017/18 (the last comprehensive figures I can find) was £34M, and Villa spent £73M! If everyone was forced to keep under £18.5M, it would bring the moneybags clubs, and especially the parachute payment clubs, closer to clubs like us.

But the £2.5M in League One does sounds low - comically low for a club like Sunderland.

 

[yellowbow]

To be fair, the proposed £18.5M wage cap in the championship would be extremely helpful for a club like ours in terms of competing at that level.

There's no way that we could operate with a wage bill that high, but the average Championship wage bill in 2017/18 (the last comprehensive figures I can find) was £34M, and Villa spent £73M! If everyone was forced to keep under £18.5M, it would bring the moneybags clubs, and especially the parachute payment clubs, closer to clubs like us.

But the £2.5M in League One does sounds low - comically low for a club like Sunderland.

Those figures are actually quite shocking