Ex Player Jack Stevens

[Oufcrealist]

Thanks for that Captain Hindsight … I don't think it's always exactly predictable how well young players will take to the first team.

True though.
Rob Atkinson was thrown straight in with no league experience. It's about if you think they're good enough not how they'll react.

 

[Swaby39]

True though.
Rob Atkinson was thrown straight in with no league experience. It's about if you think they're good enough not how they'll react.

In that case, why all the panic when we had no left back? We have Elechi….

But it’s interesting you choose to put this against him as a ‘too little, too late’ story rather than usher him some praise for having the courage to drop a senior first team member in poor form for a relative kid in his position, get the best from him and make him the marketable asset he now is?

 

[Manorlounger]

He said he would leave the club with no additional debt - and to that he was true, the debt referred to here was in effect inherited from WPL.
I am well aware of the charge, had it checked out by people that know this sort of thing. It is not an uncommon debt tool against businesses that don't actually have any 'real' assets to record against. " It meant that any revenue was redirected into a holding account and had to be paid to Ensco 1070 Ltd." - very specific revenue, not any revenue. And only the excess above a certain figure (varies by date, approx £1million) on set dates was paid to Ensco
The charge was for 4 and 1/4 million give or take. The amount owed by the club to ENSCO in 2017 was over £12million.

Player sales. Which is what I stated from the outset. £4,275,708.00 was the amount of the charge. That was paid from the player sales revenue. Dress it up anyway you like, when Eales left he made sure that he left debt free. The club was left in debt.

All of this is history and has been dissected over and over. Eales will not be turning up at the Vatican for a sainthood anytime soon.

 

[werthersoriginal]

True though.
Rob Atkinson was thrown straight in with no league experience. It's about if you think they're good enough not how they'll react.

Atkinson was the planned replacement for Dickie, he wasn’t chucked in cos someone was having a mare. Plus he had played lots of senior games at a good level.

 

[Oufcrealist]

In that case, why all the panic when we had no left back? We have Elechi….

But it’s interesting you choose to put this against him as a ‘too little, too late’ story rather than usher him some praise for having the courage to drop a senior first team member in poor form for a relative kid in his position, get the best from him and make him the marketable asset he now is?

What I am saying if you read all the thread is that a poster this time last year was saying Jack was not good enough and got pulled up for it. All I was pointing out is that KR this time last year would have been thinking the same. And don't forget, the transfer window was shut so Jack was the only alternative, it had to be done because Easty was shot on form and confidence.

 

[Wallop]

May I suggest that Tiger has considerable more assets than Eales and therefore his priorities might be somewhat different plus he is still evidently very much wanting to be involved.

I would say it’s very much the opposite - Eales was worth about £80m whilst in charge of us before his divorce which I’m guessing will have completed by now and lowered his net worth.

 

[Glesgayellow]

Can anyone give some concrete figures on what Stevens is likely to be on now, and how much Villa would likely offer him?

My guess would be currently on about 1.5 a week and I think the 10k a week ballpark would be a realistic offer from Villa. That’s a drop in the ocean of their wage budget.

 

[OUFCGav]

Player sales. Which is what I stated from the outset. £4,275,708.00 was the amount of the charge. That was paid from the player sales revenue. Dress it up anyway you like, when Eales left he made sure that he left debt free. The club was left in debt.

All of this is history and has been dissected over and over. Eales will not be turning up at the Vatican for a sainthood anytime soon.

He's not a saint. but he is also not the crook made out.
I believe the company formerly known as Ensco 1070 (the ownership vehicle) has a negative entry in its profit and loss account of £5.5million.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I don't think it's always exactly predictable how well young players will take to the first team.

True in principle. It's quite a big jump from "can I trust this lad to play against Accrington and Rochdale every week?" to "Premier League clubs might be about to start bidding for him after Championship interest already surfaced in January" inside eight months, though. For Stevens to come in and hit the ground running to the extent that he did suggests he was almost certainly being overlooked for at least a while.

Unless he went full Super Mario, got hold of a star and went turbo the second that Eastwood decided to start pretending that the ball was a snapping vine.

 

[Upthecowboys]

is this really how people want to see football, A top club buys a player because they can then Loan him for a couple of years before selling him

No, what I meant is Villa dont have to buy a keeper to be their number 1 now. They'd buy him with the hope that in a season or two he could be their number 1. However if he doesn't become their number 1 but has a couple of decent loans then they can sell and get their money back or even make a profit.

It's a low risk strategy for them..

 

[MarkG]

It was a charge registered against OUFC, not the owners. It meant that any revenue was redirected into a holding account and had to be paid to Ensco 1070 Ltd. (wholly owned by D Eales) It was set up for the outstanding amounts from player sales. It was not part of the purchase it was simply a vehicle for Ol' Slippery to walk away in profit when, in reality those player sales should have benefitted the club. Despite all his promises to see the club debt free, Eales still left the club shackled. He even retained voting rights through shares long after he had departed. That voting right meant that he could check on the payments and make sure he didn't miss anything.

The charge is registered at Companies house Here This "charge" over OUFC was eventually settled.

I think you've misunderstood. O'Dowda, Roofe, Lundstram and Johnson were sold in the summers of 2016 and 2017 which was before Tiger took over in February 2018. There were instalments due on those players at Feb 2018 and these were what was charged. So they weren't "revenue" that should have benefitted the club, they were trade debtors already owed to the club, and the club had booked the full revenue in the accounts when the sales took place.

Perhaps instead ask why Tiger didn't pay Eales £4M extra up-front for the club, and then the club could have kept the £4M transfer instalments? It's been answered that Tiger didn't have that in free cash.

Once the charged amount was paid, any other revenue for instance other player sales, or for instance promotion bonuses or sell-on clauses do go into the club.

 

[Manorlounger]

He's not a saint. but he is also not the crook made out.
I believe the company formerly known as Ensco 1070 (the ownership vehicle) has a negative entry in its profit and loss account of £5.5million.

I would get your friend to do some research into the filing for Ensco 1070/Alycidon you will soon see that quite a bit of financial manipulation went on. All above board, of course, Eales was very accustomed to that sort of thing. Suffice to say, when he left, he did so without losing much more than some loose change. Have a look at the accounts for OUFC back when Tiger took over. Then tell me that Eales left the club without any new debt.

 

[Manorlounger]

I think you've misunderstood. O'Dowda, Roofe, Lundstram and Johnson were sold in the summers of 2016 and 2017 which was before Tiger took over in February 2018. There were instalments due on those players at Feb 2018 and these were what was charged. So they weren't "revenue" that should have benefitted the club, they were trade debtors already owed to the club, and the club had booked the full revenue in the accounts when the sales took place.

Perhaps instead ask why Tiger didn't pay Eales £4M extra up-front for the club, and then the club could have kept the £4M transfer instalments? It's been answered that Tiger didn't have that in free cash.

Once the charged amount was paid, any other revenue for instance other player sales, or for instance promotion bonuses or sell-on clauses do go into the club.

At the same time, Eales decided to withhold the service charge on the stadium. By the time the legal side of things had been sorted, the club ended up paying plus interest plus legal fees - the club, not Eales, he'd already gone. Can't have it both ways.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

For Stevens to come in and hit the ground running to the extent that he did suggests he was almost certainly being overlooked for at least a while.

This. This is a point which I think gets overlooked a lot by the Robinson apologists.

Of course any young player coming in is going to be a bit of a gamble, and people can always surprise you… but for a young player to come in and suddenly be one of your very best players, looking like he’s able to play at least a division higher and pretty much turning the team around - it doesn’t say very much for the coaching staff or their ability to read a player!

 

[MarkG]

At the same time, Eales decided to withhold the service charge on the stadium. By the time the legal side of things had been sorted, the club ended up paying plus interest plus legal fees - the club, not Eales, he'd already gone. Can't have it both ways.

Tiger and his consortium would (or should) have known about this when purchasing the club and factored it into their purchase price. Maybe they had some sort of clawback from Eales if the case was unsuccesful? (like the Sunderland takeover where SD and CM were able to get Ellis Short to pay-up on a disputed player sale).

 

[beyondthefourth]

This. This is a point which I think gets overlooked a lot by the Robinson apologists.

Of course any young player coming in is going to be a bit of a gamble, and people can always surprise you… but for a young player to come in and suddenly be one of your very best players, looking like he’s able to play at least a division higher and pretty much turning the team around - it doesn’t say very much for the coaching staff or their ability to read a player!

That being said, the goalkeeper position is not like any other, where you can bring them on for 10-15 minutes towards the end of matches.

Plus, individual lapses are much more costly. It's a much bigger call to swap keepers unless there's a run of bad form to point to (which Easty provided). But I wouldn't have called for that change in keepers any earlier than just after the Swindon game myself, personally.

 

[werthersoriginal]

This. This is a point which I think gets overlooked a lot by the Robinson apologists.

Of course any young player coming in is going to be a bit of a gamble, and people can always surprise you… but for a young player to come in and suddenly be one of your very best players, looking like he’s able to play at least a division higher and pretty much turning the team around - it doesn’t say very much for the coaching staff or their ability to read a player!

I think Jack Stevens is a fantastic testimony to the quality of the coaching staff and their ability to read a player! We may get a million quid for him but the club will have spent many paid hours coaching and directing him for a few years.

I'm not sure anyone knew for certain how good he'd be and how well he'd take the pressure. Josh Ashby and James Roberts started really well but didn't quite have the X factor needed to make it.

 

[OUFCGav]

I would get your friend to do some research into the filing for Ensco 1070/Alycidon you will soon see that quite a bit of financial manipulation went on. All above board, of course, Eales was very accustomed to that sort of thing. Suffice to say, when he left, he did so without losing much more than some loose change. Have a look at the accounts for OUFC back when Tiger took over. Then tell me that Eales left the club without any new debt.

I believe that is what Tiger said too.
Of course at least we can see that via UK listings, unlike the current ownership vehicle.

 

[werthersoriginal]

This. This is a point which I think gets overlooked a lot by the Robinson apologists.

Of course any young player coming in is going to be a bit of a gamble, and people can always surprise you… but for a young player to come in and suddenly be one of your very best players, looking like he’s able to play at least a division higher and pretty much turning the team around - it doesn’t say very much for the coaching staff or their ability to read a player!

Also, I'm not sure you can be a 'Robinson apologist', as that implies he's done something wrong, whereas he's our most successful manager for 20+ years. Appleton might have exceeded his record had he stuck around but we'll never know. I'm not necessarily a massive fan but I find it a bit odd that people who don't like him blame him for everything bad while giving credit for all the good things to others or to circumstance.

 

[Wallop]

Also, I'm not sure you can be a 'Robinson apologist', as that implies he's done something wrong, whereas he's our most successful manager for 20+ years. Appleton might have exceeded his record had he stuck around but we'll never know. I'm not necessarily a massive fan but I find it a bit odd that people who don't like him blame him for everything bad while giving credit for all the good things to others or to circumstance.

Really, on what basis? He hasn’t achieved a promotion with us whereas Wilder and Appleton did. Also look at their records at other clubs (in Appleton’s case where the club hasn’t been a total basket case) compared to his.