Jack Payne - RECALLED

MJB said:
Well we’re on the up relatively, considering we haven’t been relegated for over a decade and have had two promotions and three Wembley appearances in that time.

Careful what you wish for is what I’d say!
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Perfectly possible to be a club that has been on the up for a while, but is now going nowhere.

In fact, that would be a pretty spot on description of OUFC this season. Players see things for what they are, not through the rose-tinted specs of some on here. From Appleton himself to Lundstram to Dunkley to Payne (and, it seems, to Ledson), in the last twelve months ambitious people cannot wait to get out once they smell the sense of drift. A brief showcase to get your name about then, as soon as is humanly possible, call for the lifeboat before you get associated with another 7-0 defeat.

It's not what people want to hear, but it's the reality. Bright young players are choosing to leave us for teams in our own division. It's not some existential disaster, but let's not kid ourselves that we either are, or are perceived as being, 'ambitious'. We are bedding down for lower mid-table life in League 1 for the long run.
 
tatabanya said:
Not sure you are ever going nowhere in football...

Right now I would say we are well on our way to securing League 1 football for another season after a turbulent summer, whilst rebuilding a young squad.

Maybe not appealing for Jack Payne compared to Blackburn, but 'going nowhere' doesn't really make sense. I'm sure Cameron Brannagan and Rob Dickie don't think we are 'going nowhere'.

It's just a pretty stupid thing to say really, looking for attention. And you you got it, nice one.
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On Rob Dickie, by the way, am I the only one not sniffing the Koolade?

Reading are a lower-end Championship club and he couldn't make their squad. Not the first team. The squad. Sort of their Fiacre Kelleher. He then played a big bunch of games on loan for Cheltenham, over quite some period and no-one was coming in offering big money (or any money), but he held his place fine.

All of which suggests that his natural place in football's pecking order is somewhere between high-end League 1 and mid-table League 2. So we are his level. And he is our level. It's not a League 2 club snapping up Roofey or Lundstram from Premier League clubs. There are only 12 places or so in the pyramid between us and Reading!!
 
Lundinsponytail said:
On Rob Dickie, by the way, am I the only one not sniffing the Koolade?

Reading are a lower-end Championship club and he couldn't make their squad. Not the first team. The squad. Sort of their Fiacre Kelleher. He then played a big bunch of games on loan for Cheltenham, over quite some period and no-one was coming in offering big money (or any money), but he held his place fine.

All of which suggests that his natural place in football's pecking order is somewhere between high-end League 1 and mid-table League 2. So we are his level. And he is our level. It's not a League 2 club snapping up Roofey or Lundstram from Premier League clubs. There are only 12 places or so in the pyramid between us and Reading!!
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Well we paid a fee, so it wasn't as if he was driven to the Kass by Reading's chairman. And he is 21 years-old, so plenty of football at NL and L2 level isn't really to be sniffed at?

Lincoln fans seemed pretty sure he was good enough for a promotion chasing L2 side which, at 21 yo, makes him a pretty handy prospect in my eyes. Those I've spoken to who know him as a player echo that sentiment.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
Perfectly possible to be a club that has been on the up for a while, but is now going nowhere.

In fact, that would be a pretty spot on description of OUFC this season. Players see things for what they are, not through the rose-tinted specs of some on here. From Appleton himself to Lundstram to Dunkley to Payne (and, it seems, to Ledson), in the last twelve months ambitious people cannot wait to get out once they smell the sense of drift. A brief showcase to get your name about then, as soon as is humanly possible, call for the lifeboat before you get associated with another 7-0 defeat.

It's not what people want to hear, but it's the reality. Bright young players are choosing to leave us for teams in our own division. It's not some existential disaster, but let's not kid ourselves that we either are, or are perceived as being, 'ambitious'. We are bedding down for lower mid-table life in League 1 for the long run.
Click to expand...

That's just categorically wrong.

Dunkley may have gone to a team in our division but the move was quite clearly a good one for him, both finanically and in his career. Payne, as far as I know, had no input in leaving and no issues with staying. Ledson hasn't gone anywhere, and who could begrudge him a move to a club chasing the play-offs in the league above.

We have signed Cameron Brannagan, a young Liverpool graduate. If we are bedding in for the long-term in this league it's a pretty stupid signing to make. There will be many players available who can do that job for us now without havibng to invest in youth development.

Some of our fans are absolutely spoilt by the success in recent years.
 
He did well, shame to see him go but there was always a risk of this happening. You would like to think it won't affect the rest of the squad other than in a positive way as it frees up a place in the team for others to challenge for. They are professional sportsmen after all.
 
Farewell Jack thanks and good luck.

In all this, I am reminded of that awful day at the manor ground when the season ended with us conceding 100 goals and with relegation. That downward spiral continued until around 2009 with the first real step up on that fantastic day at Wembley in 2010. we have had 8 years of fairly steady (but slow)progress despite the ups and downs of stadium/managers/owners/players etc etc. Long may we keep moving in that direction. Even if it is only slowly.

Just my personal opinion you understand.
 
Scotchegg said:
The only issue is that we have given Jack a free role which has only really worked when sacrificing a second striker. You need everyone else to be disciplined, which is why we've struggled when Hall or van Kessel have played.

Jack is a great player, as was Maguire, but their individual success can be at the expense of the team. If we are to get better players, we need to find away to fit Payne into the team before we splash out on him.
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Have to agree- to date we have failed to “ unlock “ Jack on a regular basis.
In many games he is the “nearly” man.
 
This is the problem with loan deals. Frightened to death they are going to be recalled. Baldock being a classic case. January ticking by and most fans dreading the call from MK and a recall....we all knew it was going to happen. The opposition did their homework on Jack, severely man marked which nullified his threat. Will miss him, but it has happened many times before and will continue to do so. Good luck to him, but we move on....hopefully upwards.
 
Maybe I’m still a little shell shocked by the gob smackingly awful abuse some of our players got on Saturday but the pat negativity that some posters spout off with such regularity on this forum makes me wonder if their memories are pea sized.

If you want crisis; let me refer you for starters to 2000/2001, 2005/2006, or 2007/2008 seasons. 2014/2015 was of course an era of rose tinted success as well.

Not forgetting the reign of Ian ‘Desire’ Atkins.

?
 
tatabanya said:
That's just categorically wrong.

Dunkley may have gone to a team in our division but the move was quite clearly a good one for him, both finanically and in his career. Payne, as far as I know, had no input in leaving and no issues with staying. Ledson hasn't gone anywhere, and who could begrudge him a move to a club chasing the play-offs in the league above.

We have signed Cameron Brannagan, a young Liverpool graduate. If we are bedding in for the long-term in this league it's a pretty stupid signing to make. There will be many players available who can do that job for us now without havibng to invest in youth development.

Some of our fans are absolutely spoilt by the success in recent years.
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Sorry: WHAT is "categorically wrong". You have no idea what was going through Dunkley's head? Or what he is being paid. You have no idea what Jack Payne was saying to his agent. You have no idea what Appleton was thinking. But none of these players have gone for knock-out moves like Roofe straight from League 2 to the Championship (which we all understood well). They are going sideways, or upwards so little that you can barely discern it. Which would hardly imply that OUFC is viewed within the squad as the place to be, right now.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the success of the three years until last April. Last January away to Boro and last April away to Millwall made me truly proud, in a way I haven't felt for years. But I also enjoyed the mid-1990s. Didn't mean I had to behave as though lobotomised when things started to first drift and then crater. It is entirely possible to see progress and success for what it is, and then see drift and degradation for what it is as well.

Signing Brannegan is entirely compatible with bedding in for the long run in League 1 mid-table. It's a model pursued by Posh for years. Fund running losses by trading players. Very decent, admirable stuff. But hardly ambitious. If we were signing Brannegan with the intention of keeping him here for the mid-term push up the pyramid, that would be a very different thing, of course. But recent history suggests otherwise.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
Sorry: WHAT is "categorically wrong". You have no idea what was going through Dunkley's head? Or what he is being paid. You have no idea what Jack Payne was saying to his agent. You have no idea what Appleton was thinking. But none of these players have gone for knock-out moves like Roofe straight from League 2 to the Championship (which we all understood well). They are going sideways, or upwards so little that you can barely discern it. Which would hardly imply that OUFC is viewed within the squad as the place to be, right now.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the success of the three years until last April. Last January away to Boro and last April away to Millwall made me truly proud, in a way I haven't felt for years. But I also enjoyed the mid-1990s. Didn't mean I had to behave as though lobotomised when things started to first drift and then crater. It is entirely possible to see progress and success for what it is, and then see drift and degradation for what it is as well.

Signing Brannegan is entirely compatible with bedding in for the long run in League 1 mid-table. It's a model pursued by Posh for years. Fund running losses by trading players. Very decent, admirable stuff. But hardly ambitious. If we were signing Brannegan with the intention of keeping him here for the mid-term push up the pyramid, that would be a very different thing, of course. But recent history suggests otherwise.
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Clearly you do know what was going through the minds of everyone prior to them leaving? If not your speculation has no more validity than someone else's.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
Sorry: WHAT is "categorically wrong". You have no idea what was going through Dunkley's head? Or what he is being paid. You have no idea what Jack Payne was saying to his agent. You have no idea what Appleton was thinking. But none of these players have gone for knock-out moves like Roofe straight from League 2 to the Championship (which we all understood well). They are going sideways, or upwards so little that you can barely discern it. Which would hardly imply that OUFC is viewed within the squad as the place to be, right now.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the success of the three years until last April. Last January away to Boro and last April away to Millwall made me truly proud, in a way I haven't felt for years. But I also enjoyed the mid-1990s. Didn't mean I had to behave as though lobotomised when things started to first drift and then crater. It is entirely possible to see progress and success for what it is, and then see drift and degradation for what it is as well.

Signing Brannegan is entirely compatible with bedding in for the long run in League 1 mid-table. It's a model pursued by Posh for years. Fund running losses by trading players. Very decent, admirable stuff. But hardly ambitious. If we were signing Brannegan with the intention of keeping him here for the mid-term push up the pyramid, that would be a very different thing, of course. But recent history suggests otherwise.
Click to expand...

Pretty much everything you said. Namely that we are "going nowhere" and that we are "bedding in" for life in L1. Both statements, along with the rest of what you say, is wrong
 
Lundinsponytail said:
Sorry: WHAT is "categorically wrong". You have no idea what was going through Dunkley's head? Or what he is being paid. You have no idea what Jack Payne was saying to his agent. You have no idea what Appleton was thinking. But none of these players have gone for knock-out moves like Roofe straight from League 2 to the Championship (which we all understood well). They are going sideways, or upwards so little that you can barely discern it. Which would hardly imply that OUFC is viewed within the squad as the place to be, right now.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the success of the three years until last April. Last January away to Boro and last April away to Millwall made me truly proud, in a way I haven't felt for years. But I also enjoyed the mid-1990s. Didn't mean I had to behave as though lobotomised when things started to first drift and then crater. It is entirely possible to see progress and success for what it is, and then see drift and degradation for what it is as well.

Signing Brannegan is entirely compatible with bedding in for the long run in League 1 mid-table. It's a model pursued by Posh for years. Fund running losses by trading players. Very decent, admirable stuff. But hardly ambitious. If we were signing Brannegan with the intention of keeping him here for the mid-term push up the pyramid, that would be a very different thing, of course. But recent history suggests otherwise.
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Er. But if we are following the Peterborough model, then what's the problem? They have consistently been one of the better L1 teams for a number of years with quite a few seasons in the Championship. I'd be pretty happy with that given the rubbish we watched from 1999-2009. OUFC does not own its ground, is in thrall to a slum landlord and gets crowds of 7k or thereabouts. So exactly what strategy do you propose we pursue instead of this one? There are only about six clubs in the world who are not selling clubs....
 
malcolmsmoustache said:
Er. But if we are following the Peterborough model, then what's the problem? They have consistently been one of the better L1 teams for a number of years with quite a few seasons in the Championship. I'd be pretty happy with that given the rubbish we watched from 1999-2009. OUFC does not own its ground, is in thrall to a slum landlord and gets crowds of 7k or thereabouts. So exactly what strategy do you propose we pursue instead of this one? There are only about six clubs in the world who are not selling clubs....
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Yes being like Peterborough for a while would be fine, they have had some good players and times in the championship. We will always have to sell stars but we do need to build the core of a team that will carry on, rather than starting again every year.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
Sorry: WHAT is "categorically wrong". You have no idea what was going through Dunkley's head? Or what he is being paid. You have no idea what Jack Payne was saying to his agent. You have no idea what Appleton was thinking. But none of these players have gone for knock-out moves like Roofe straight from League 2 to the Championship (which we all understood well). They are going sideways, or upwards so little that you can barely discern it. Which would hardly imply that OUFC is viewed within the squad as the place to be, right now.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the success of the three years until last April. Last January away to Boro and last April away to Millwall made me truly proud, in a way I haven't felt for years. But I also enjoyed the mid-1990s. Didn't mean I had to behave as though lobotomised when things started to first drift and then crater. It is entirely possible to see progress and success for what it is, and then see drift and degradation for what it is as well.

Signing Brannegan is entirely compatible with bedding in for the long run in League 1 mid-table. It's a model pursued by Posh for years. Fund running losses by trading players. Very decent, admirable stuff. But hardly ambitious. If we were signing Brannegan with the intention of keeping him here for the mid-term push up the pyramid, that would be a very different thing, of course. But recent history suggests otherwise.
Click to expand...
Bedding for league 1?don't know where you get this from. If anything we are buidling for next season whilst still possibilty of play offs.
Pep said at the start of the season that he doesn't expect immediate success here and wanted to use this season as one where he gets to know the team and then push towards promotion next.
We are the ones expecting to much here the fans. And signing the likes of Brannagan shows that we have ambitions and we are trying to progress forward again.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
Sorry: WHAT is "categorically wrong". You have no idea what was going through Dunkley's head? Or what he is being paid. You have no idea what Jack Payne was saying to his agent. You have no idea what Appleton was thinking. But none of these players have gone for knock-out moves like Roofe straight from League 2 to the Championship (which we all understood well). They are going sideways, or upwards so little that you can barely discern it. Which would hardly imply that OUFC is viewed within the squad as the place to be, right now.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the success of the three years until last April. Last January away to Boro and last April away to Millwall made me truly proud, in a way I haven't felt for years. But I also enjoyed the mid-1990s. Didn't mean I had to behave as though lobotomised when things started to first drift and then crater. It is entirely possible to see progress and success for what it is, and then see drift and degradation for what it is as well.

Signing Brannegan is entirely compatible with bedding in for the long run in League 1 mid-table. It's a model pursued by Posh for years. Fund running losses by trading players. Very decent, admirable stuff. But hardly ambitious. If we were signing Brannegan with the intention of keeping him here for the mid-term push up the pyramid, that would be a very different thing, of course. But recent history suggests otherwise.
Click to expand...
Dunkley doubled his wages, same as Lundstrum and Maguire, we had a wage structure model that was affordable.
Payne is a loan player and there was always the issue of the January window, do you know we never instigated the return to use the money else where because of new players coming in and the stagnation of Payne.
Appleton was offered a massive wage hike to help out at a prem club, it seems to be working fine.
I certainly wouldn't describe the current situation as drifting..
 
I'm disappointed but not all that surprised that Payne has gone back and no doubt in line about to be loaned out again. But in my humble opinion, Payne was to me a couple of Buzz Lightyears away from anything else we have at our disposal at the club at present. The present new company the club has at their disposal and waiting in the wings are for obvious reasons excluded.

I must confess I didn't really know too much about Payne before he came to the club although my son was always raving about Payne when he and his Southend team regularly came to the Kassam and poached their three points annually. I probably didn't really notice his own individual stand out performances at the time as I was probably already thinking of what excuses I could come up with for my morning meetings with my fellow idiotic workmates.

I have watched Payne in almost 95% of his starts this season and in my own lonely honest opinion, he has been so far ahead of the team at times in his vision and touch that he has at times made a bit of a mockery of his all-around game. Players can only do so much and all professionals in the PL and EFL are all relatively equal before kick off collectively but once the game starts there inequalities seep through. The inequalities are simple to see as in most players can shoot, pass and tackle but its the consistency which defines the best from the rest and that's why league 1 is league 1 and league 2 is league 2 etc etc. Payne is probably playing a consistent 7 although some fans may argue with this as he's our most consistent hauled off player....why? It's because he is several paces quicker in thought and at times it seems that he has got himself stuck in a bit of a hole leading to him being subbed. Our 'better' players within the squad may etch a consistent 6 whilst others pitch in around the 5/6 mark. PL players are expected to be consistent with a higher rating as with the top Championship players.

I will miss the little man in our midfield and thank him for his undoubted passion and efforts whilst in an OUFC shirt and for the footballing man that I know, LondonRoader for I would like to know a little more about the 'stagnation' of Payne.

Hopefully, these new signings are going to be a vital step in our progress up the ladder as I want to see my club back among the top two divisions...I personally don't want to wait around too long seeing the same old bloody grounds year after year. We must now start growing a big pair and being as I said a lot more consistent in every department of the football club if we are ever to be taken seriously again.

I want the fans to come back in droves and the only way forward is progression and I know it doesn't come cheap....but on the flip side it is not always as costly as everyone thinks. Young hungry talented forgotten about premier footballers aided and abetted by talented mid aged serial league 1 top end players could give United a lower end Championship finish and for me and a lot of other fellow supporters I've spoken too on my travels have said they would swap at the drop of a large hat the cosy league 1 grounds we have now felt a little too comfortable with for a few decent trips to such clubs as QPR, Fulham, Millwall, Villa, Norwich etc and dare I say it our plastic biscuit men a few miles down the road. Who really wouldn't want to taste this even if we couldn't sustain it forever and it was for just a few seasons.

Dare I dream.......

Sorry about my love in with Jack.
 
Hurray. Another Charlie/scotchegg “debate”. Zzzzzzz.
 
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Lundinsponytail said:
Sorry: WHAT is "categorically wrong". You have no idea what was going through Dunkley's head? Or what he is being paid. You have no idea what Jack Payne was saying to his agent. You have no idea what Appleton was thinking. But none of these players have gone for knock-out moves like Roofe straight from League 2 to the Championship (which we all understood well). They are going sideways, or upwards so little that you can barely discern it. Which would hardly imply that OUFC is viewed within the squad as the place to be, right now.
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Blackburn is a sideways move? You presumably think we have an excellent chance of promotion then?

I'm not sure how this fits in with the rest of your post.
 
christenedinjericho said:
I'm disappointed but not all that surprised that Payne has gone back and no doubt in line about to be loaned out again. But in my humble opinion, Payne was to me a couple of Buzz Lightyears away from anything else we have at our disposal at the club at present. The present new company the club has at their disposal and waiting in the wings are for obvious reasons excluded.

I must confess I didn't really know too much about Payne before he came to the club although my son was always raving about Payne when he and his Southend team regularly came to the Kassam and poached their three points annually. I probably didn't really notice his own individual stand out performances at the time as I was probably already thinking of what excuses I could come up with for my morning meetings with my fellow idiotic workmates.

I have watched Payne in almost 95% of his starts this season and in my own lonely honest opinion, he has been so far ahead of the team at times in his vision and touch that he has at times made a bit of a mockery of his all-around game. Players can only do so much and all professionals in the PL and EFL are all relatively equal before kick off collectively but once the game starts there inequalities seep through. The inequalities are simple to see as in most players can shoot, pass and tackle but its the consistency which defines the best from the rest and that's why league 1 is league 1 and league 2 is league 2 etc etc. Payne is probably playing a consistent 7 although some fans may argue with this as he's our most consistent hauled off player....why? It's because he is several paces quicker in thought and at times it seems that he has got himself stuck in a bit of a hole leading to him being subbed. Our 'better' players within the squad may etch a consistent 6 whilst others pitch in around the 5/6 mark. PL players are expected to be consistent with a higher rating as with the top Championship players.

I will miss the little man in our midfield and thank him for his undoubted passion and efforts whilst in an OUFC shirt and for the footballing man that I know, LondonRoader for I would like to know a little more about the 'stagnation' of Payne.

Hopefully, these new signings are going to be a vital step in our progress up the ladder as I want to see my club back among the top two divisions...I personally don't want to wait around too long seeing the same old bloody grounds year after year. We must now start growing a big pair and being as I said a lot more consistent in every department of the football club if we are ever to be taken seriously again.

I want the fans to come back in droves and the only way forward is progression and I know it doesn't come cheap....but on the flip side it is not always as costly as everyone thinks. Young hungry talented forgotten about premier footballers aided and abetted by talented mid aged serial league 1 top end players could give United a lower end Championship finish and for me and a lot of other fellow supporters I've spoken too on my travels have said they would swap at the drop of a large hat the cosy league 1 grounds we have now felt a little too comfortable with for a few decent trips to such clubs as QPR, Fulham, Millwall, Villa, Norwich etc and dare I say it our plastic biscuit men a few miles down the road. Who really wouldn't want to taste this even if we couldn't sustain it forever and it was for just a few seasons.

Dare I dream.......

Sorry about my love in with Jack.
Click to expand...
I agree with you're post about Payne but he's been a bit part player in the last month, since we changed to a 442 system to make the team better Jack has suffered on the wing, that might have coincided with the manager knowing of the impending recall.
Talented as Jack might be, trying to shoehorn him in the team and the fact teams worked out how to stop him hampered us, as we don't have enough attacking midfield talent when he's not in midfield. Now Mowett has been taken off the subs bench and hopefully with the new players and others coming back from injury it will give us more midfield push.
 
Gone to Blackburn Rovers for the rest of the season. As most suspected loaned out again immediately.
 
Payne reportedly been unhappy at new system and constant subbing.

IMHO, we may be a little tougher in this division without him.
 
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