International News Immigration

chuckbert said:
You’re entitled to your opinion, just not to impose it on others. Regarding your last point, you’ve got it wrong - the “libs” aren’t the cancel culture here. I bet there is a much bigger overlap of those who complain about women wearing veils with those who complain about western women dressing immodestly.
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Thats a reach, I would say those men who are in favour of the burka have more of a problem with women dressing immodestly than those against it, some argument to make the reverse of that.

At some point you “libs” are going to have to confront the fact that Islam has beliefs that are completely against the views you claim to hold, and some (not all) adherents are pretty strident in those beliefs.
 
holdsteady said:
Thats a reach, I would say those men who are in favour of the burka have more of a problem with women dressing immodestly than those against it, some argument to make the reverse of that.

At some point you “libs” are going to have to confront the fact that Islam has beliefs that are completely against the views you claim to hold, and some (not all) adherents are pretty strident in those beliefs.
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You’re definitely missing the point. None of the “libs” on here is defending Islam or its customs, or confused about whether it can be illiberal or not. They are just suggesting that the way to deal with a culture that is perceived to be forcing women to dress a certain way is not to impose rules on how women can dress. You’re the one who wants to fight illiberal action with illiberal action. Empowering women is the answer, not patronising them.
 
holdsteady said:
At some point you “libs” are going to have to confront the fact that Islam has beliefs that are completely against the views you claim to hold, and some (not all) adherents are pretty strident in those beliefs.
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Finally. You have accepted that you're anti-islam. As we know, this has nothing to do with national security and women's rights. You just don't accept Islam.

Thats your choice, but let's not pretend otherwise.
 
chuckbert said:
You’re definitely missing the point. None of the “libs” on here is defending Islam or its customs, or confused about whether it can be illiberal or not. They are just suggesting that the way to deal with a culture that is perceived to be forcing women to dress a certain way is not to impose rules on how women can dress. You’re the one who wants to fight illiberal action with illiberal action. Empowering women is the answer, not patronising them.
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Do you think a hands off approach to the veiling of women is going to empower them against the strictures of religion, culture and overwhelming male dominance going back over a thousand years?

I think it’s convenient for you to play the liberal here, but w we hat you are being liberal about is virtually a form of chattel slavery, given it’s strictures, should we be so liberal and hands off about slavery?

We have legislation against other forms of bigotry, why not against this pretty harsh example of it, as other countries do, even some Islamic ones?

I do think a two tier form of liberalism exists when it comes to Islam, this is a pretty good example of it, happy to take the side of bearded old men over women in the name of some perverse diversity.
 
Scotchegg said:
Finally. You have accepted that you're anti-islam. As we know, this has nothing to do with national security and women's rights. You just don't accept Islam.

Thats your choice, but let's not pretend otherwise.
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I am anti some parts of Islam, the bits that throw gays off of roofs etc, are you not?

You can’t win the argument so you play the race/Islamophobia card.
 
holdsteady said:
I am anti some parts of Islam, the bits that throw gays off of roofs etc, are you not?

You can’t win the argument so you play the race/Islamophobia card.
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Its you that is playing this card. You have constantly made this about Islam. You spoke about some made up deity in the desert to disparage the entire religion.

Of course there are extremist within Islam and they should be condemned. There are also extremists in all religions. There are plenty of Christians who hold pretty disgusting views on homosexuality, abortion and women's rights. I condemn all of them.

As for the argument. There isnt one. You dont like something, because of your biases, and want to impose that on others. Whether you can see it or not, it is as silly as banning mini skirts or Wycombe shirts.
 
Londox said:
Ok. I think you're an arrogant person who doesn't care about women's rights, who consistently talks down his nose at people.
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I think it’s fabulous that women (all women) have someone like you to weigh in on what they should be allowed to wear and what they want to wear. I don’t see anything arrogant about assuming you are perfectly qualified for that.

holdsteady said:
At some point you “libs” are going to have to confront the fact that Islam has beliefs that are completely against the views you claim to hold, and some (not all) adherents are pretty strident in those beliefs.
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Are these “libs” in the room with us right now?
 
Scotchegg said:
Its you that is playing this card. You have constantly made this about Islam. You spoke about some made up deity in the desert to disparage the entire religion.

Of course there are extremist within Islam and they should be condemned. There are also extremists in all religions. There are plenty of Christians who hold pretty disgusting views on homosexuality, abortion and women's rights. I condemn all of them.

As for the argument. There isnt one. You dont like something, because of your biases, and want to impose that on others. Whether you can see it or not, it is as silly as banning mini skirts or Wycombe shirts.
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Ah, excuse @holdsteady for making a debate about a burqa about Islam. That crazy fool.

You keep painting the position of banning the burqa (which has already been done in several European countries) as an absurdity.

I have no problem with Muslims. It's a set of ideas and religion.
I don't believe non-stun halal slaughter nor the burqa really belongs in a civilised western society. I have no desire to stop people who are religious worshipping whatever they like, but the burqa is a security risk and also risks women being under coercive control and non stun slaughter is unnecessary cruelty to animals.

I'm sure I'll just be tarred as an islamophobe or something for these opinions by yourself, despite the face they're views shared by millions of Brits.
 
ECYellow said:
The disorder took place 3 or 4 days ago…
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From ITV...
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From the Independent...
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According to a BBC article yesterday, the incident which sparked this happened on Saturday...
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Even all of the Irish sources are saying the same. Presuming you have an alternative source? (which, to be fair you may have posted already, been a hell of a lot of traffic on this thread).
 
SteMerritt said:
The timestamp on that message is before when the incident that apparently sparked the rioting in Ballymena is supposed to have happened, so is this related to that, or another incident entirely?
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Presumably another incident, as the Ballymena disorder appears to relate to the alleged attack on young girls by those that are not Irish nationals.

The common denominator appears to link immigration concerns, but that could be incorrect.
 
RgYellows said:
I think it’s fabulous that women (all women) have someone like you to weigh in on what they should be allowed to wear and what they want to wear. I don’t see anything arrogant about assuming you are perfectly qualified for that.


Are these “libs” in the room with us right now?
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There is an entire industry that cares what people wear, so the arrogance of that must drive you mental.
If having an opinion on something is arrogant then I am.

Its certainly not as far out there as trying to pretend that’s it’s people who don’t like the burqa who are trying to enforce what women wear, I think not wearing a tent or going around naked leaves one hell of a middle ground to express yourself however you like through how you dress, don’t think any society is asking to much to ask you to live with those boundaries.
 
QR said:
So why don't they riot when Irish nationals are the perpetrators?
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Couldn’t tell you. I’m not in the head of those choosing to do so, clearly.
If we were to speculate, it might be something to do with criminals that are Irish Nationals actually being their problem, rather than the immigrants that have been placed in their communities, and who are appearing to not be integrating into their societies in a fashion that prevents them sexually assaulting young girls.
 
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