International News Immigration

Sheik Djibouti said:
Some simple questions for you.

Are you honestly that thin skinned?

Do you expect the civil service to break the law?

What is your answer?

Your response thus far smacks of desperation and whataboutism.
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I expect the civil service the carry out the policies of what the government is elected on.

If they consider that to be breaking the law the ball is then in the governments court to change the law.
 
Londox said:
I expect the civil service the carry out the policies of what the government is elected on.

If they consider that to be breaking the law the ball is then in the governments court to change the law.
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And that's where the problem lies. They don't try to change the law - they just try and bully the civil servants into doing it anyway, even if it's against the law.

The Rwanda scheme was a written up on the back of a fag-packet. It's basic common sense, to do a project plan and feasibility study to assess what issues you might come across when embarking on any project, particularly if it's going to be long and costly. But the problem with populists is that they can't think more than one step ahead, and are too arrogant to liaise with the civil service for advise. The same applies with Liz Truss and her disastrous mini-budget.

As I said simple solutions to complex problems.
 
Londox said:
I expect the civil service the carry out the policies of what the government is elected on.

If they consider that to be breaking the law the ball is then in the governments court to change the law.
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So you genuinely think people should be above the law. Given everything history has taught us the kind of thinking blows my mind.
 
boogaloo said:
And that's where the problem lies. They don't try to change the law - they just try and bully the civil servants into doing it anyway, even if it's against the law.

The Rwanda scheme was a written up on the back of a fag-packet. It's basic common sense, to do a project plan and feasibility study to assess what issues you might come across when embarking on any project, particularly if it's going to be long and costly. But the problem with populists is that they can't think more than one step ahead, and are too arrogant to liaise with the civil service for advise. The same applies with Liz Truss and her disastrous mini-budget.

As I said simple solutions to complex problems.
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To play devil's advocate to your argument, would lawmakers/courts try and block government law they don't like?

If that's the case it would make sense why the government would try and bypass it.

Do you not think if governments can't deliver policy due to non-elected bodies that that;s a bad thing?
 
QR said:
So you genuinely think people should be above the law. Given everything history has taught us the kind of thinking blows my mind.
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I believe there is too much bureaucracy, lawfare, red-tape and political game-playing to stop governments enacting policies they promise, yes.

I would like to see the powers of non-elected bodies stripped back. It's vital to democracy people get what they voted for.

If Reform get in, but can't quash illegal immigration because of the civil service, the courts and the law despite the fact they promised it that will lead to the voter base becoming more extreme and trying to overthrow the entire system.
 
Londox said:
To play devil's advocate to your argument, would lawmakers/courts try and block government law they don't like?
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No. Lawmakers simply apply the laws that are in place at the current time. Parliament can and do change laws all the time, but it has to voted through on parliament. The online safety bill is a recent example of that, as is making it illegal to nudify images of people or children (Grok), which certain right-wing types worrying seem to have an issue with.


Londox said:
Do you not think if governments can't deliver policy due to non-elected bodies that that;s a bad thing?
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The laws are put in place by parliament, who consist of MPs who were elected by the Great-British public. I agree some laws are very old, and may no longer be fit for purpose. But that is the job of MPs to discuss in parliament, not for populist leaders to say "Screw it" and stick a sledgehammer to the law!
 
Londox said:
To play devil's advocate to your argument, would lawmakers/courts try and block government law they don't like?

If that's the case it would make sense why the government would try and bypass it.

Do you not think if governments can't deliver policy due to non-elected bodies that that;s a bad thing?
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lawmakers and courts work within the bounds of the law. The law that parliament has jurisdiction over. If the law that parliament has created conflicts with another law parliament has created, they will point that out. If governments do things that conflict with the law it is specifically the courts purpose to rule on that. If they rule against it then the government has to sort out their mess.
 
Nobody is above the law.

Anyone that thinks they can act with impunity is an authoritarian and has no place in a civilised democracy.

If they are able to change the law on a whim to do attractive stuff you like and why you voted for them, what's there to stop them (or anyone you don't agree with) simply changing the law and doing stuff you really don't like?

It's staggering naivety to think it should work any differently to a system that has developed and evolved over centuries, not to mention a massive slap in the face to the memories of all those who have suffered and continue to suffer at the hands of regimes who think they can ignore and change the law when it suits them.
 
Londox said:
If Reform get in, but can't quash illegal immigration because of the civil service, the courts and the law despite the fact they promised it that will lead to the voter base becoming more extreme and trying to overthrow the entire system.
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If Reform get in promising things they can't possibly deliver, surely that's the fault of Reform and, to a lesser extent, the voters?
 
Sheik Djibouti said:
Nobody is above the law.

Anyone that thinks they can act with impunity is an authoritarian and has no place in a civilised democracy.

If they are able to change the law on a whim to do attractive stuff you like and why you voted for them, what's there to stop them (or anyone you don't agree with) simply changing the law and doing stuff you really don't like?

It's staggering naivety to think it should work any differently to a system that has developed and evolved over centuries, not to mention a massive slap in the face to the memories of all those who have suffered and continue to suffer at the hands of regimes who think they can ignore and change the law when it suits them.
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I give you .......................

1770139797707.png
 
m said:
If Reform get in promising things they can't possibly deliver, surely that's the fault of Reform and, to a lesser extent, the voters?
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Imagine a political party getting voted in after promising things it canā€™t deliver.
 
holdsteady said:
Imagine a political party getting voted in after promising things it canā€™t deliver.
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I think the current government did try and tell people how s**t things were going to be, but everybody got the hump and said they were simply talking the country down....too much doom and gloom.

As for Nigel... he's definitely got form for promising Unicorns and Rainbows and delivering the square root of f**k all (and of course conveniently telling everyone that it's someone else's fault).

And he's supposed to represent changešŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

We're definitely living in the upside down šŸ¤£
 
holdsteady said:
Imagine a political party getting voted in after promising things it canā€™t deliver.
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What like this....

'At Kent county council, Paul Chamberlain, one of the Reform UK cabinet members in charge of Dolge cuts, said councillors had not found any significant waste to cut.


Chamberlain told the FT: ā€œWe made some assumptions that we would come in here and find some of the craziness that [Muskā€™s] Doge found in Americaā€‰ā€¦ā€‰and that was wrong, we didnā€™t find any of that.ā€ '
 
Essexyellows said:
Legally binding manifesto`s alongside proper PR. (y)
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What happens when a political party makes a promise it ends up not being able to fulfill because it faces a mountain of red tape and legislation and a liberal-leaning civil service who will delay and water down?

This is my point. A party with a radical new agenda won't find things easy.
 
Londox said:
What happens when a political party makes a promise it ends up not being able to fulfill because it faces a mountain of red tape and legislation and a liberal-leaning civil service who will delay and water down?

This is my point. A party with a radical new agenda won't find things easy.
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Well let hope that Reform don't promise to grow the economy then.

www.theguardian.com

Zero net migration would shrink UK economy by 3.6%, says thinktank

Jump of Ā£37bn in budget deficit by 2040 would force government to increase taxes, NIESR predicts
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Londox said:
What happens when a political party makes a promise it ends up not being able to fulfill because it faces a mountain of red tape and legislation and a "liberal-leaning civil service" who will delay and water down?

This is my point. A party with a radical new agenda won't find things easy.
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What does this tripe even mean?
 
Londox said:
What happens when a political party makes a promise it ends up not being able to fulfill because it faces a mountain of red tape and legislation and a liberal-leaning civil service who will delay and water down?

This is my point. A party with a radical new agenda won't find things easy.
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It's just simple project planning.

1. Get an idea
2. Will it be a vote winner
3. Speak to SME (subject matter experts) and see if it is feasible
4. What needs to be done to make it happen? Act of parliament, change of law, etc?
5. Do a full time and cost analysis
6. If it is still feasible, announce it to the public/stick in your manifesto.

The problem with populist parties like Reform and Conservative (from Boris onwards), is that they skip points 3, 4 and 5, because that requires hard work. And when it inevitably come round and bites them in the arse, they blame liberal lefties, woke, civil service, 'the blob', the WEF, EU, ECHR - in fact pretty much anyone except for themselves, when in reality it was their piss poor due diligence that is to blame.
 
boogaloo said:
It's just simple project planning.

1. Get an idea
2. Will it be a vote winner
3. Speak to SME (subject matter experts) and see if it is feasible
4. What needs to be done to make it happen? Act of parliament, change of law, etc?
5. Do a full time and cost analysis
6. If it is still feasible, announce it to the public/stick in your manifesto.

The problem with populist parties like Reform and Conservative (from Boris onwards), is that they skip points 3, 4 and 5, because that requires hard work. And when it inevitably come round and bites them in the arse, they blame liberal lefties, woke, civil service, 'the blob', the WEF, EU, ECHR - in fact pretty much anyone except for themselves, when in reality it was their piss poor due diligence that is to blame.
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Where does Labours

1. Have an idea
2. Suggest idea
3. Back down after public outcry
4. Repeat 58 times

fit in?
 
Whatever happened to JFDI?

The Government (whoever it maybe) want to do something.

Somebody says "its to complicated/difficult"........... well **ck them off and get someone in who can do it!!!

In Dubai they say "Nothing is Impossible" it is the core philosophy that has driven rapid transformation, something we seem unable/unwilling to do.
 
Essexyellows said:
Whatever happened to JFDI?

The Government (whoever it maybe) want to do something.

Somebody says "its to complicated/difficult"........... well **ck them off and get someone in who can do it!!!

In Dubai they say "Nothing is Impossible" it is the core philosophy that has driven rapid transformation, something we seem unable/unwilling to do.
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Slave labour that you are willing to work to death does help in that regard though.
 
Sheik Djibouti said:
And billionaires getting more prevalent and richer

Oh yeah . . . it's all the poor people on minimum wage and below sucking money out of the economy - how silly anyone is to think otherwise.... šŸ™ˆ
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Supply and demand. We are talking about basic economics.

The billionaires mostly love mass immigration, keeps labour cheap.
 
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