How to complete the season

mooro

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While on an 'idealistic' level, the desire to somehow finish this season AND have a full 20/21 season is of course the optimum outcome, but for so many reasons, already mentioned on here, it is becoming increasingly unlikely that that will be possible, so we have to look into the best worst alternatives.
For me the turning point has been the change in likely resumption dates from the original estimates of June/July to the more realistic August/September/October now being suggested. Therefore taking the available time to complete a season and a quarter from 11-12 months down to about 8-9, which is getting too tight, particularly with the possibility of more interruptions next winter from a partial recurrence and also preparations for the Euros in the summer of 2021.
So I now come back to an idea mooted a while back, which basically involves promoting clubs currently in auto spots, but not relegating those in the relegations spots. As with most suggestions, some would be less happy than others, but I think is likely to be the least litigious, as on the whole the best teams WOULD get their reward of promotion, while most other teams going for promotion/playoffs would accept missing out in these circumstances, BUT to arbitrarily punish some teams (in easy reach of survival) with the massive blow that is relegation would be too harsh an outcome. Crucially, The same process could be applied all the way down the ladder, with adjustments to allow for the changes in league sizes for non-league steps 2,3&4 already planned at the start of the 19/20 season.
I would then add two amendments - i) in cases where teams outside of the promotion spots are level on points with teams in them &/or where teams outside have games in hand and could move into those spots by gaining 1pt per game, then the head to head records of the two teams involved are used as a decider - ii) teams in relegation spots who are 'cast adrift' (eg would require at least one third of the points on offer from their remaining games to move out of the dropzone as it stands) would be relegated. For context, going down to level 4 of non-league, I see four potential cases where (i) might apply and about half a dozen clubs (including Southend and Bolton) for whom (ii) could apply.

By taking these decisions now, this allows all the leagues and clubs to prepare for the new season without having to do half a job for the revival, then re-jig things 'overnight' for a new season, perhaps in a different league. It also means that the contract conundrum disappears, and clubs can approach the transfer window with clarity.
 

Mad dog87

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yep.... why not?

Amalgamating 2 seasons into one can’t be any more damaging than just writing off a complete season as null and void or finishing this season to the detriment of not having a season next year.

Based on this seasons points tally, teams would have earned the right to start next season in an advantageous position.
It's not a bad idea, however, at the moment, teams such as ourselves have had a great season, and only need to keep that form and momentum going for another 10 games or so, in order to gain promotion, but if we stop now, and then start a new season, we'll have to play our remaining 10-12 games of this season, and then an entire seasons worth of games again, hoping to maintain THIS season's great form throughout NEXT season, which may not happen, and regardless of our current league position, we could end up falling away, and ending up with nothing!

Another possible idea, is that we finish this season once it's safe to do so, resulting in the usual title winners, promoted and relegated teams and all cup winners, then have a short break, given that the players will have already had a big break right now anyway, so won't need the same duration of time off as they would usually get at the end of a season, and won't need a full preseason, just a few weeks training, and then return for next season, with all teams in their newly appointed leagues, scrapping the cup competitions, and playing sat-tues as often as need be, in order to get next season's league games completed.

Far from ideal, but cup competitions don't make or break clubs, league campaigns do though, so the leagues need to take priority.
 

horseman

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everyone keeps saying scrap the cup competitions, what about the sponsors? would you be happy to say we don't need you but comeback to us next time please and we'll have your money?
Also the cup competitions have minimal impact on a season bar the odd exceptions the lower down the league you go but if you're going to potentially prevent lower league clubs gaining income from a cup run are you going to scrap the Europa and Champions League games also and if not why not?
 

Scotchegg

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everyone keeps saying scrap the cup competitions, what about the sponsors? would you be happy to say we don't need you but comeback to us next time please and we'll have your money?
Also the cup competitions have minimal impact on a season bar the odd exceptions the lower down the league you go but if you're going to potentially prevent lower league clubs gaining income from a cup run are you going to scrap the Europa and Champions League games also and if not why not?

With regard to Europa/CL games being scrapped, then yes that is a very real possibility. We had 2.5 months of this season to run, and a 9 month season to come. It is unlikely any large social gatherings and sporting events will be allowed to start before August/September at the earliest, and even then there will be no guarantees of being able to run through to May without further interruptions.

So there will have to be compromises. We can forget this season ever started and go again from next season. We can drop cup competitions. We can run a number of smaller leagues or play either home or away. None of these are ideal. All will result in some loss in revenue. All will be seen as bring unfair to some. But we are in unchartered territory and something has to give.
 

RyanioBirdio

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There was a solution mooted on a football based live stream I saw yesterday that said they should scrap this season now, but start next season with the points carried over. And for any teams who have played less games than others, they should work out their current points per game (we’ve played a big enough percentage of the season across the board to make a claim that it’s pretty fair and reflective), and then add the average accordingly so as to calculate the ‘worth’ of their games in hand.

It isn’t a perfect solution by any means - there simply isn’t one no matter which route they go down - but it’s consistent and doesn’t see the work that has been put in this season completely binned. It’s certainly a better solution than running into a brick wall and worrying about how next season, and in turn half of the clubs in the country, survive after we’ve all clattered into it.
This still remains the cleanest and fairest solution IMO. I’m yet to see anything better or more viable presented.
 

horseman

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This still remains the cleanest and fairest solution IMO. I’m yet to see anything better or more viable presented.
i thought my suggestion from the start was the fairest, promote those already in the Auto spots scrap the play offs and adjust relegation accordingly...only team affected of the 91 is Villa and as stated the premier League do what they want anyway so let them sort that one. it's sensible logical and fair to all.
 

werthersoriginal

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I’ll take either of these two.

I see the Conference have declared the season over and said they’ll involve the clubs in deciding how to resolve it.
 

Essexyellows

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Finish the season now, top two up and whoever is top of the Play off places. No relegation then use next season to level things out again.

As for the PL......... feck `em. They are being called out for what they are.
 

Mike_H

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I haven't read all the posts so apologies if anyone has posted this before.

Whenever we do get a restart, first finish the current season so that all the clubs are ranked in order for the 2019/20 season, including the effect of playoffs and promotions and relegations. Promoted teams would rank at the bottom of the league they move up to, relegated teams at the top of the league they move down to. Then decide how many league games there is time to play in the 2020/21 season and create leagues for 2020/21 (e.g. called Leagues A, B, C etc.) with the appropriate number of teams to play that number of games, based on where clubs finished in 2019/20.

So e.g. if there is time to play 30 league games in 2020/21 there would be 16 teams in League A (the top 16 teams from the 2019/20 Premiership), 16 teams in League B (the bottom 4 teams from the 2019/20 Premiership plus the top 12 teams from the 2019/20 Championship), etc.

At the end of the 2020/21 season it would work in reverse, putting teams back into the usual sized Premiership, Championship, Div 1, Div 2 leagues for the 2021/22 season.

This could be applied down the pyramid to include the National League as well but would require further thought once Leagues get split into North and South for example.

There would be some consequences such as, in my example there would be no relegation from a 16 team League A in 2020/21 as all would be in the 20 team Premiership in 2021/22.

However it would be hard for any team to claim it had been treated unfairly compared to another team as all places would be determined on completed seasons.
 

Marked Ox

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The Independent article (linked earlier) probably explains why the leagues and clubs will do all they can to finish this season and that massive financial risks/penalties exist in voiding the leagues. It opens up both leagues to broadcasters (not sure if the same exists for sponsors etc) wanting their money back as part of the contract which in the PL could be £1.2bn and I'm not sure what the FL is. But there is a further point from that article, estimates are that 45 FL clubs are already at risk and if the FL had to pay back Broadcaster fees then that would push quite a few of these clubs over the edge; and probably put more at risk.

So it isn't just timing/promotion & relegation that is an issue, but legal requirements and simple survival.
 

RyanioBirdio

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The Independent article (linked earlier) probably explains why the leagues and clubs will do all they can to finish this season and that massive financial risks/penalties exist in voiding the leagues. It opens up both leagues to broadcasters (not sure if the same exists for sponsors etc) wanting their money back as part of the contract which in the PL could be £1.2bn and I'm not sure what the FL is. But there is a further point from that article, estimates are that 45 FL clubs are already at risk and if the FL had to pay back Broadcaster fees then that would push quite a few of these clubs over the edge; and probably put more at risk.

So it isn't just timing/promotion & relegation that is an issue, but legal requirements and simple survival.
Indeed, but I’m still yet to hear anybody, especially the footballing bodies, explain how if we wait another six months to play a maximum of five home games each to finish 19/20, then get smashed by a second wave of the virus that totally derails next season as well, how the clubs survive that lack of revenue? It could put us in a position where between March 2020 and March 2021 clubs only played five matches at home. A club like OUFC probably makes around £2million per season on match tickets, between ST holders and walk ups. Give or take - we’re in full blown fag packet territory here. That’s more than we get from the TV deal as a L1 club, so why would we prioritise not paying back a few hundred grand over gate receipts of multiple times more? That’s like saying someone would rather make £20 than make £100 and pay someone half.
 

Marked Ox

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Indeed, but I’m still yet to hear anybody, especially the footballing bodies, explain how if we wait another six months to play a maximum of five home games each to finish 19/20, then get smashed by a second wave of the virus that totally derails next season as well, how the clubs survive that lack of revenue? It could put us in a position where between March 2020 and March 2021 clubs only played five matches at home. A club like OUFC probably makes around £2million per season on match tickets, between ST holders and walk ups. Give or take - we’re in full blown fag packet territory here. That’s more than we get from the TV deal as a L1 club, so why would we prioritise not paying back a few hundred grand over gate receipts of multiple times more? That’s like saying someone would rather make £20 than make £100 and pay someone half.
Paying back that money may not tip us over but it may with others. For instance, it may be how that money is paid back (ie. no cash flow to pay it back) or that they really can't afford it. All depends on contracts etc.

I can see this season being finished with a truncated season next season or that next season would likewise be extended until finished with future seasons gradually getting back to the normal timetable. They have an opportunity to do this to a degree because of the winter World Cup. But whatever is decided it is going to be a mess.
 

RyanioBirdio

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Paying back that money may not tip us over but it may with others. For instance, it may be how that money is paid back (ie. no cash flow to pay it back) or that they really can't afford it. All depends on contracts etc.
Sure, but that still means they’re losing infinitely more money overall, so that instead of paying the money back and folding they get to keep hold of it and then fold three months down the line, due to a lack of revenue with no games on the horizon.

I appreciate there is no perfect solution here, but the one thing that categorically will not work in the long run is this head down, arms back approach towards sprinting in the direction of finishing this season at any cost. Why can’t the broadcasters just be given a discount on future monies owed to square it off? And if they do insist on a cash rebate, why does it have to be paid overnight in one lump?

Unfortunately I think what’s happening here is a load of overpaid riders of the gravy train never had to bank on doing any form of meaningful work, and now that they have to make decisions and butt heads in a crisis they’re completely incapable. Does anyone really believe that those on the boards of the PL, EFL etc know what the hell they’re doing?
 

Marked Ox

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Sure, but that still means they’re losing infinitely more money overall, so that instead of paying the money back and folding they get to keep hold of it and then fold three months down the line, due to a lack of revenue with no games on the horizon.

I appreciate there is no perfect solution here, but the one thing that categorically will not work in the long run is this head down, arms back approach towards sprinting in the direction of finishing this season at any cost. Why can’t the broadcasters just be given a discount on future monies owed to square it off? And if they do insist on a cash rebate, why does it have to be paid overnight in one lump?

Unfortunately I think what’s happening here is a load of overpaid riders of the gravy train never had to bank on doing any form of meaningful work, and now that they have to make decisions and butt heads in a crisis they’re completely incapable. Does anyone really believe that those on the boards of the PL, EFL etc know what the hell they’re doing?
If they play the seasons and adjust the timetables over a period of time then they get both sets of income. And discounting on future monies owed from Broadcasters just kicks the can down the road. But if you read the Independent article, then the FL come across as pretty resolute in finishing this season at the moment, although that of course can change like everything in this situation.
 
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RyanioBirdio

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If they play the seasons and adjust the timetables over a period of time then they get both sets of income. And discounting on future monies owed from Broadcasters just kicks the can down the road. But if you read the Independent article, then the FL come across as pretty resolute in finishing this season at the moment, although that of course can change like everything in this situation.
We can’t change our season out of sync with the Premier League as it would break the chain of promotion and relegation, likewise the Conference below, so either the entirety of football changes its season schedule or it’s a non-starter. Good luck to anybody who wants to do that with Euro 2021 firmly parked up next summer, and the clubs lower down less able to handle delays in revenue or even a total lack of it.

They’re chasing the rabbit straight under a car.
 

Marked Ox

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We can’t change our season out of sync with the Premier League as it would break the chain of promotion and relegation, likewise the Conference below, so either the entirety of football changes its season schedule or it’s a non-starter. Good luck to anybody who wants to do that with Euro 2021 firmly parked up next summer, and the clubs lower down less able to handle delays in revenue or even a total lack of it.

They’re chasing the rabbit straight under a car.
They might all have to change and UEFA has actually already shown flexibility. It won't only be smaller clubs in this country but across all of Europe as well that are at serious risk and lots of footballers potentially out of work.
 

werthersoriginal

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Belgium just cancelled all their leagues. Club Brugge champions, promotion, relegation and Europe to be announced...
Once a major league follows we'll be done and dusted for this year I would imagine.
Congratulations to Liverpool
 

Manorlounger

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Belgium just cancelled all their leagues. Club Brugge champions, promotion, relegation and Europe to be announced...
Once a major league follows we'll be done and dusted for this year I would imagine.
Might not be that simple, apparently they only had one match left to play (each team) and the declared champions were 12 points clear.
 

Sarge

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Belgium just cancelled all their leagues. Club Brugge champions, promotion, relegation and Europe to be announced...
Once a major league follows we'll be done and dusted for this year I would imagine.
IMO there's only 4 things of any real note to come out of Belgium ... Stella Artois, Belgian chocolate, the cross channel ferries .... and an honourable mention to Plastic Bertram :sneaky:
 

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