Hillsborough Trial....

Essexyellows

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30 years later on hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I can remember meeting Forest fans in tears at New Street. However football was different in those days, you almost knew that if enough turned up without tickets you would get in rather than be left on the streets.
A catastrophic combination of events that should never happen again but pinning the "blame" on individuals ???
Things were done wrong, people died, fans behaved badly,there was a degree of cover up ...... but a trial?
What purpose will it serve? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-46878778
 

Sarge

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30 years later on hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I can remember meeting Forest fans in tears at New Street. However football was different in those days, you almost knew that if enough turned up without tickets you would get in rather than be left on the streets.
A catastrophic combination of events that should never happen again but pinning the "blame" on individuals ???
Things were done wrong, people died, fans behaved badly,there was a degree of cover up ...... but a trial?
What purpose will it serve? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-46878778
Thing is it was covered up for many years ... health and safety legislation in the UK has been applied differently than in mainland Europe...heyshel stadium disaster was investigated fairly quickly (in comparison) , under health and safety laws individuals found , in court, to have broken the law and found to have been negligent were sentenced to custodial sentences.....Hillsborough enquiry had to overcome all manner of lengthy delays to eventually reach a proper conclusion.

Good question 're what purpose would it serve @Essexyellows ... on the one hand in effect scapegoating a 74 year old for failings 30 years ago could be perceived as questionable in the greater scheme.... conversely war criminals as well as Kiddy fiddlers 're crimes committed many years ago are still being bought to justice for crimes committed decades ago. Rightly so too imo ..... does prosecuting pensioners help victims or relatives of victims is debatable although it may give a sense of closure?... should serious crimes including criminal negligence , be disregarded after a set time? I'd say no they shouldn't, the law is something we are all equal under, and if the laws of the land are to be respected, they should be upheld I think
 
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OUFCGav

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30 years later on hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I can remember meeting Forest fans in tears at New Street. However football was different in those days, you almost knew that if enough turned up without tickets you would get in rather than be left on the streets.
A catastrophic combination of events that should never happen again but pinning the "blame" on individuals ???
Things were done wrong, people died, fans behaved badly,there was a degree of cover up ...... but a trial?
What purpose will it serve? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-46878778
But if individuals had specific responsibility, and failed to discharge their duties due to individual negligence, and those decisions directly led to the death of almost a hundred people, do you think it should be ignored?
And there was more than a "degree of cover up". Most of the reports of bad behaviour have been shown to be false and created by the police to suit a narrative.
 

Essexyellows

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Dukenfield found "Not Guilty" .......... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50592077

"Mr Duckenfield did not dispute that he ordered the opening of a gate at Hillsborough to let fans in, or that he failed to close the tunnel to the terraces which were already full. In 2015 at the Hillsborough Inquests he accepted that this was the direct cause of the 96 deaths. But an inquest is not a criminal court, and so it was for another jury to decide whether Mr Duckenfield's mistakes amounted to gross negligence manslaughter.

The crown's case was that the Chief Superintendent's failings were so extraordinary that they met that test.

But the jury accepted the defence case that the 75 year old was a target of blame who was unfairly singled out for prosecution."


As i said they were far different days. If enough turned up you all got in because the Police would rather you in the ground than wandering the local streets.
 

Foley

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Huge sympathy for the families. Quite horrendous for them.
The jury decided that Dukenfield was ' not guilty' . The families are angry and dont now trust the legal system?
 

Foley

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£65m has been spent on the criminal investigation.
That's extraordinary isnt it?
 

Junior_1

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Including many Liverpool fans who only themselves know if they went that day and gained entry without tickets...

Not that they’ll ever admit that.. victim mentality you see.
 

Sarge

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This could never be laid at the feet of one individual. It was the result of a combination of factors. One being the fences.
which party were in government when the decision to treat football supporters like 3rd class citizens including fencing everyone in was made and imposed? ...hmmmmm I wonder?
 

ZeroTheHero

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I don't think Duckenfield should have been convicted - the jury was right in that he was singled out to take the blame for a situation where many people were culpable. However, there is an old saying that 'justice delayed is justice denied' and that applies in this case. Many people who also had a role to play are dead, many of the relatives of those who died are dead and the whole affair has now been trundling on for over 30 years, blighting the lives of the families - who can't get on with their lives properly. An appalling incident, handled terribly at the time and just as badly in the years since.
 

MC Yellow

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which party were in government when the decision to treat football supporters like 3rd class citizens including fencing everyone in was made and imposed? ...hmmmmm I wonder?
Thankfully the fences have gone and football has become much more of a family game. Unfortunately, for some that makes them feel as though the game has become too sanitized. Can’t have it both ways I guess.

In that era, unfortunately, too many were acting like 3rd class citizens and yobs to the detriment of the average supporter who just wanted to watch a game of football.
 

Essexyellows

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which party were in government when the decision to treat football supporters like 3rd class citizens including fencing everyone in was made and imposed? ...hmmmmm I wonder?
Because those supporters were behaving like little angels weren`t they? You reap what you sow.
As has been said you can`t have it both ways.
I`m just glad I was lucky enough to experience the adrenalin, the buzz, the nerves at a time that fitted in really well for my age.
I feel sorry for those who have only ever experienced the sterile experience it has now become (mostly!).
 

YellowTaxi

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"You reap what you sow"

Let me remind you that ehen eventually the truth came out after a series of lies From Duckenfield the coroner and the media including the SUN the inquest ruled that the 96 who died at Hilsborough were unlawfully killed and that no blame attached to them. Anyone in any doubt should listen to Phil Scraton's book.

I find that the usual suspects are making the same tired insinuations is shameful for our fanbase and Oxford United Football Club.
 

Sarge

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Because those supporters were behaving like little angels weren`t they? You reap what you sow.
As has been said you can`t have it both ways.
I`m just glad I was lucky enough to experience the adrenalin, the buzz, the nerves at a time that fitted in really well for my age.
I feel sorry for those who have only ever experienced the sterile experience it has now become (mostly!).
Im lucky enough to experienced, first hand, matches such as the historic giant killing run in 1964, with crowds of over 22,000 packed into the Manor , with no segregation

There were those who certainly had their moments during the 70s & 80s, different times for certain, however, if memory serves wernt the sledgehammer to crack walnut measures such as perimeter fences, introduced following incidents when Luton played Millwall at Kenilworth road.... Tory MP for Luton area was also chairman, or board member at Luton town at the time .... following that match with its pitch invasion battle between Millwall fans and Beds constabulary up went the fences, ID cards for alll football supporters was proposed by the Thatcher led Tory government, while Luton Town banned visiting away supporters for many seasons

One bad incident leading to ALL football supporters in England being treated like lower class citizens... implications of which are still in place ( you can have a beer while enjoying all spectator sport live, except football for example)

The actions of Bin dippers at Heyschel stadium led to the greatest Oxford United team ever ( so far) denied a place in European club football. Again with interference from the Thatcher government.

Its not right, and never will be, to punish all (football supporters) for the actions of a few.... however history tells us a tory government see things otherwise
 

Foley

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"You reap what you sow"

Let me remind you that ehen eventually the truth came out after a series of lies From Duckenfield the coroner and the media including the SUN the inquest ruled that the 96 who died at Hilsborough were unlawfully killed and that no blame attached to them. Anyone in any doubt should listen to Phil Scraton's book.

I find that the usual suspects are making the same tired insinuations is shameful for our fanbase and Oxford United Football Club.
Extraordinary post.
My reading is that the comment about reap what you sow related to the issue of having fences in football.
What above us shameful to oufc?
 

Scotchegg

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I think it's unnecessary to refer to Liverpool fans as "always the victim". Let's not forget that the 96 who died had only turned out to watch a game of football, and regardless of rivalries that should never have been allowed to happen. These, their family and friends and all those who experienced that tragedy first hand are the real victims.

The events at Hillsborough could have happened with any club, at virtually every ground. Those who remember the 80's will know of the crumbling stadiums with fences and rusting safety barriers. Football fans were treated like animals, and sadly some acted like that too.

The total disregard for the safety and wellbeing of football fans were systemic throughout the game. Likewise, football hooliganism affected every club and whilst Heysel was the tipping point, it was only luck that had prevented the same thing happening on a number of previous occasions.

So we should not be looking at persecuting any one official any more than one fan who pushed in. The system and everything that went with it was entirely fucked at that time, and sadly it took 96 deaths before anyone took any notice.

Some moan about the "prawn sandwich" brigade that have come into the sanitised modern game, but many aspects of the game have changed for the better. No one should ever go to support their team and never come home. Let's not lose sight of this regardless of all the usual club v club bullshit.
 

Sarge

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I think it's unnecessary to refer to Liverpool fans as "always the victim". Let's not forget that the 96 who died had only turned out to watch a game of football, and regardless of rivalries that should never have been allowed to happen. These, their family and friends and all those who experienced that tragedy first hand are the real victims.

The events at Hillsborough could have happened with any club, at virtually every ground. Those who remember the 80's will know of the crumbling stadiums with fences and rusting safety barriers. Football fans were treated like animals, and sadly some acted like that too.

The total disregard for the safety and wellbeing of football fans were systemic throughout the game. Likewise, football hooliganism affected every club and whilst Heysel was the tipping point, it was only luck that had prevented the same thing happening on a number of previous occasions.

So we should not be looking at persecuting any one official any more than one fan who pushed in. The system and everything that went with it was entirely fucked at that time, and sadly it took 96 deaths before anyone took any notice.

Some moan about the "prawn sandwich" brigade that have come into the sanitised modern game, but many aspects of the game have changed for the better. No one should ever go to support their team and never come home. Let's not lose sight of this regardless of all the usual club v club bullshit.
good post @Scotchegg
 

Essexyellows

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"You reap what you sow"

Let me remind you that ehen eventually the truth came out after a series of lies From Duckenfield the coroner and the media including the SUN the inquest ruled that the 96 who died at Hilsborough were unlawfully killed and that no blame attached to them. Anyone in any doubt should listen to Phil Scraton's book.

I find that the usual suspects are making the same tired insinuations is shameful for our fanbase and Oxford United Football Club.
30 years ago football was far different to today.
The so called "big clubs" supporters knew that, if enough turned up, they would be squeezed in.
Supporters had been acting like crime waves all over the country be it fighting in grounds, wrecking pubs, wrecking transport or shop lifting.
That led to fencing to keep them on the terraces, we even had it at the Manor, as well as netting to stop coins and a dividing fence in the LRT.
OUFC were not exempt from football violence.
Hillsborough was a catalogue of disasters both in the wider community/society as well as the ground itself, the supporters and the police who all contributed to the death of the 96.


If you can`t cope with that fact and think it can be pinned on 1 individuals decision then you are far more disturbed than your ranting on here portrays.
 

Marked Ox

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I think it's unnecessary to refer to Liverpool fans as "always the victim". Let's not forget that the 96 who died had only turned out to watch a game of football, and regardless of rivalries that should never have been allowed to happen. These, their family and friends and all those who experienced that tragedy first hand are the real victims.

The events at Hillsborough could have happened with any club, at virtually every ground. Those who remember the 80's will know of the crumbling stadiums with fences and rusting safety barriers. Football fans were treated like animals, and sadly some acted like that too.

The total disregard for the safety and wellbeing of football fans were systemic throughout the game. Likewise, football hooliganism affected every club and whilst Heysel was the tipping point, it was only luck that had prevented the same thing happening on a number of previous occasions.

So we should not be looking at persecuting any one official any more than one fan who pushed in. The system and everything that went with it was entirely fucked at that time, and sadly it took 96 deaths before anyone took any notice.

Some moan about the "prawn sandwich" brigade that have come into the sanitised modern game, but many aspects of the game have changed for the better. No one should ever go to support their team and never come home. Let's not lose sight of this regardless of all the usual club v club bullshit.
I remember the crush that happened on the Stratton Bank one year and that could have easily gone the other way but fortunately it didn't.
 
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