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Ex-Player Thread Hidde Ter Avest

SirAndyOfCrosby said:
Hahahahahahhahahahahahaha.

'Hidde ter Avest has been good, but what about that Sam Long eh?"

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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To be fair, I agree with him on this. One bad performance from ter Avest and you know what it will be like on here. Hero to zero. I've been fairly critical of Longs limitations in the past but he has definitely had his moments this season both at RB and CB.
 
Followtheox1 said:
To be fair, I agree with him on this. One bad performance from ter Avest and you know what it will be like on here. Hero to zero. I've been fairly critical of Longs limitations in the past but he has definitely had his moments this season both at RB and CB.
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Kioso has also had some good games. We’ve got three decent right backs. I think Ter Avest will certainly keep his place while Brown is at left back, he balances him well.
 
werthersoriginal said:
Kioso has also had some good games. We’ve got three decent right backs. I think Ter Avest will certainly keep his place while Brown is at left back, he balances him well.
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Brown is a classic example of zero to hero on here when playing at LB (not CB where there is general consensus he is player of the season). A couple of indifferent games there and on here it's " he is not a left back" "should have brought Curry back" etc to Saturday where he was a star performer.
 
werthersoriginal said:
Kioso has also had some good games. We’ve got three decent right backs. I think Ter Avest will certainly keep his place while Brown is at left back, he balances him well.
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This was the point I made that was shot down. I agree that we have three decent right backs, who all offer something slightly different. What we've yet to find is one consistently outstanding right back, but ter Avest has all the attributes to make that place his own.

Its worth remembering that Hidde had recently welcomed a new child into his family when he joined for us, and was looking to move his family over. In addition to playing in a new country and a disjointed pre-season, it's not surprising that it took a while before he featured. And this was also when Kioso was looking very good and shutting out Murphy away at Portsmouth.

Then when Rowett arrived he went back to basics, solid back 4, 2 holding CMs and pace from the wings. Sam Long (trigger warning!!!) came in and was part of the side that turned our season around.

As you've said, and to repeat my original post, I hope that HtA cements his place for next season. Kioso has the potential to be a good back up, and Long can be Mr Utility as back up across the defence. With so many improvements needed across the squad, it will be good to have some places that we can leave as they are.
 
Scotchegg said:
This was the point I made that was shot down. I agree that we have three decent right backs, who all offer something slightly different. What we've yet to find is one consistently outstanding right back, but ter Avest has all the attributes to make that place his own.

Its worth remembering that Hidde had recently welcomed a new child into his family when he joined for us, and was looking to move his family over. In addition to playing in a new country and a disjointed pre-season, it's not surprising that it took a while before he featured. And this was also when Kioso was looking very good and shutting out Murphy away at Portsmouth.

Then when Rowett arrived he went back to basics, solid back 4, 2 holding CMs and pace f
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Be interesting to see at the end of the season if one of them is allowed to leave.
 
Followtheox1 said:
Be interesting to see at the end of the season if one of them is allowed to leave.
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I'm sure that Sam Long will almost certainly be allowed to leave. His limited opportunities this season tell you where he is in the pecking order. Whether or not he wants to move away, from his home town club and (one assumes) a pretty comfy contract, is another matter I guess.

He hasn't let us down this year during the minutes that he's had (albeit he was repeatedly skinned at Burnley), but if the intention is to lift the floor of the playing squads ability, he will have to be one that is deemed surplus to requirements, despite his versatility. We need to aspire to having players that are going to push on to the next level in this league and that will require a higher quality from those on the periphery.
 
ECYellow said:
I'm sure that Sam Long will almost certainly be allowed to leave. His limited opportunities this season tell you where he is in the pecking order. Whether or not he wants to move away, from his home town club and (one assumes) a pretty comfy contract, is another matter I guess.

He hasn't let us down this year during the minutes that he's had (albeit he was repeatedly skinned at Burnley), but if the intention is to lift the floor of the playing squads ability, he will have to be one that is deemed surplus to requirements, despite his versatility. We need to aspire to having players that are going to push on to the next level in this league and that will require a higher quality from those on the periphery.
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I wonder if his versitilty will mean unless he wants to leave, that GR will be quite happy to keep him.
 
Ter Avest is streets ahead of the other two. Despite not doing anything extraordinary, he’s as consistently “good” as they come.

FWIW I don’t think Long has done much wrong this season bar a disaster-class at Burnley but even in L1 never stood out as a good RB, only ever a centre back where I actually think he’s pretty decent. Equally, Kioso looked unstoppable initially and now looks a total liability through his desperation to crush anybody in a 5 metre radius.

Ter Avest has been a bit of calm in the eye of a storm since he came in. He’s a safe pair of hands with the ball and not a lot goes past him which is really all we can ask at the moment with the way we’re setting up.

He’s one of only a few that make my starting side for next season if I had it all my way and a really good piece of business on a free.
 
Followtheox1 said:
I wonder if his versitilty will mean unless he wants to leave, that GR will be quite happy to keep him.
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It's possible, as you'd imagine that he will be one of the senior players that isn't in the upper echelons of high earners.

I'm just not sure that keeping him to be a bit part player is dong anything for his career, and neither is it increasing the quality of our side, that has found it tough going all season in the Championship.

I'd have thought a 30 year old Sam Long would want to go and play week in week out and be a key contributor to a team, rather than a make weight which is what he is now and will continue to be, especially if we continue to play at this level.
 
Followtheox1 said:
I wonder if his versitilty will mean unless he wants to leave, that GR will be quite happy to keep him.
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When does his contract expire?
I would imagine that GR would be happy him staying- really useful on the bench as he can play anywhere across the back 4/5.
Would be surprised if he couldn't easily get a decent L1 club, and so I suspect that it wouid be his choice
 
You can't be anything but impressed with Ter Avest. He's taken a long time to force himself into the side and he looks comfortable. Hardly surprising when his entire career has been in Serie A and the Eredivise. His mentality and seemingly, resilience, in biding his time, is a credit to him.
 
Foley said:
When does his contract expire?
I would imagine that GR would be happy him staying- really useful on the bench as he can play anywhere across the back 4/5.
Would be surprised if he couldn't easily get a decent L1 club, and so I suspect that it wouid be his choice
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Signed a 3 year deal in Feb 23 according to news reports.
 
OUFCGav said:
Signed a 3 year deal in Feb 23 according to news reports.
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If he has another year on his contract I'm sure he'll stay for that, but then I kind of hope he goes somewhere like Cheltenham to be captain and play every week.
 
Foley said:
When does his contract expire?
I would imagine that GR would be happy him staying- really useful on the bench as he can play anywhere across the back 4/5.
Would be surprised if he couldn't easily get a decent L1 club, and so I suspect that it wouid be his choice
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I believe he's had a year extension until June 27.
 
Sam Long would be an excellent Joe Skarz signing for a good league two club going for promotion, just like Skarz obviously was for us, an experienced solid defender with an excellent attitude who would be a 7/10 every week at that level, then give them a right/centre back who is league one ready if they do go up. Not knocking him and saying that's all he can get and don't know if any club at that level is near to where we were under Appleton, but he might fancy playing regularly and fancy a challenge to finish off the good years of his career. He has done well here, made the most of what he has, so in a way it would be a shame for him to just sit out (which has a good chance of happening if we stay up) the last few years of his prime.
 
holdsteady said:
Sam Long would be an excellent Joe Skarz signing for a good league two club going for promotion, just like Skarz obviously was for us, an experienced solid defender with an excellent attitude who would be a 7/10 every week at that level, then give them a right/centre back who is league one ready if they do go up. Not knocking him and saying that's all he can get and don't know if any club at that level is near to where we were under Appleton, but he might fancy playing regularly and fancy a challenge to finish off the good years of his career. He has done well here, made the most of what he has, so in a way it would be a shame for him to just sit out (which has a good chance of happening if we stay up) the last few years of his prime.
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I strongly agree but then I also want to see him lead us out at Old Trafford
 
holdsteady said:
Sam Long would be an excellent Joe Skarz signing for a good league two club going for promotion, just like Skarz obviously was for us, an experienced solid defender with an excellent attitude who would be a 7/10 every week at that level, then give them a right/centre back who is league one ready if they do go up. Not knocking him and saying that's all he can get and don't know if any club at that level is near to where we were under Appleton, but he might fancy playing regularly and fancy a challenge to finish off the good years of his career. He has done well here, made the most of what he has, so in a way it would be a shame for him to just sit out (which has a good chance of happening if we stay up) the last few years of his prime.
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It’s all part of the cycle. As the club grows and goes up, players either need to take up the same trajectory (see Cumming, Brown, Brannagan) or face the harsh reality of being left behind. It’ll come to them all eventually if the club keeps going the right way.

That isn’t exclusive to Long in the immediate, there’s others too, but it’s been quite the education this season and we want to be trying to phase out the next row of players that ‘can do a job for you’ and bring in the next tranche of players who raise the bar and perhaps make the players I mentioned above start to look more average.

Sentimental stuff has its place in football but I hope we stay up and grasp the chance to evolve like we perhaps should’ve done a little more convincingly in January as a mid table side at the time. And Long will naturally be one of those you should look at and think “do I want to be leaning on this lad for 10-15 starts in a championship season?” If that’s a no then you ought to be proactive about finding someone else and raise the standard while you can.

If we were in L1 again next year I’d keep him around the squad for sure. But the reality of staying up will be that we need to make room for players who can keep us well out of danger next year.
 
Swaby39 said:
It’s all part of the cycle. As the club grows and goes up, players either need to take up the same trajectory (see Cumming, Brown, Brannagan) or face the harsh reality of being left behind. It’ll come to them all eventually if the club keeps going the right way.

That isn’t exclusive to Long in the immediate, there’s others too, but it’s been quite the education this season and we want to be trying to phase out the next row of players that ‘can do a job for you’ and bring in the next tranche of players who raise the bar and perhaps make the players I mentioned above start to look more average.

Sentimental stuff has its place in football but I hope we stay up and grasp the chance to evolve like we perhaps should’ve done a little more convincingly in January as a mid table side at the time. And Long will naturally be one of those you should look at and think “do I want to be leaning on this lad for 10-15 starts in a championship season?” If that’s a no then you ought to be proactive about finding someone else and raise the standard while you can.

If we were in L1 again next year I’d keep him around the squad for sure. But the reality of staying up will be that we need to make room for players who can keep us well out of danger next year.
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Depends who the replacement is. So far Long has made 20 appearances this season and every time he has played he hasn't looked out of place.
He has Ter Avest and Kioso in front of him at right back and Moore, Helik, Nelson and Brown in front of him at CB. I'd argue that, at this level, you aren't going to get many players in the Sam Long bracket who you know are comfortable coming into the side and preform to the required standard while also not kicking up a fuss when they aren't getting as much game time.
 
Steve Gilbert said:
Depends who the replacement is. So far Long has made 20 appearances this season and every time he has played he hasn't looked out of place.
He has Ter Avest and Kioso in front of him at right back and Moore, Helik, Nelson and Brown in front of him at CB. I'd argue that, at this level, you aren't going to get many players in the Sam Long bracket who you know are comfortable coming into the side and preform to the required standard while also not kicking up a fuss when they aren't getting as much game time.
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We’ll agree to disagree on the second sentence. Ok, he hasn’t made any standout howlers that I can recall but if you’re suggesting he has the kind of technical ability and fluidity to his game that you see in most championship players then I’d say that’s more than a reach, especially for a full back. Without doubt he has played his best football at centre back where, as I said, I think he’s actually OK. But is OK what we’re going for with anyone in the 25 man squad? It shouldn’t be if we stay up but I can understand it in the first season as you can’t do it all in one summer and it was right to keep some continuity.

Can’t fault the lad for his effort, application and professionalism. Nobody will question that. But we’re punching at a level now where that only gets you so far. Look at Placheta - find me a winger that works harder than he does - it doesn’t negate his largely L1-level on-the-ball qualities.

Sam Long at 120% effort is not as good as Ter Avest at 80%. At the lower levels effort and endeavour can be a reasonable substitute for quality (sometimes better in the huff and puff type games you tend to get down there) but in the championship you need the lot. We’ve shown in Ter Avest that we can find them and secure them, so no reason to settle for too many triers.
 
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I think Ter Avest became a bit of a scapegoat of the chaos at the end of the Desball era.
His first start - against Hull at home - he was the best player on the pitch and scored the winner. I thought it was going to be him at RB from that point on.
His second and third starts were Boro at home, and Sheffield United away, which were probably our two worst performances of the entire season. Certainly not his fault - they were both calamitous performances from everyone - but I think it's what got him the "this guy can't defend" label.

Didn't start again until Norwich a month ago, since when he's clearly shown that in a properly organized and well-drilled side, he's a quality player and definitely our best right back.
 
Swaby39 said:
Look at Placheta - find me a winger that works harder than he does - it doesn’t negate his largely L1-level on-the-ball qualities.
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Harsh on Shemmy, I think. Maybe on average that's true, but at times this season he's fluctuated wildly from Premier League to National League South quality. And he does have Championship-level pace.

And that's why - in a squad where we're desperately short of forwards with the quality to play at this level - he's a must-start because on any given day he could do something brilliant and unlock even Championship defenses.

If we stay up, and if we're able to bring in the 3-4 new forwards we need, then maybe (hopefully) his role diminishes next season. But I reckon it's unfair to label him as a League One player, because I think he does have Championship qualities......just maybe not Championship consistency.
 
Given that we have a limited budget, then it is a difficult balance. If you are trying to raise the general standard, how much do you spend on those who might only play a very limited role? We simply will not be upgrading every player in the squad, or even in the favoured starting XI. If Dembele was £800K and Romeny over £1.3M (?) and our forwards need an upgrade on that then I suspect there won't be much money to upgrade a standby utility right sided defender.

But - to be fair to Sam Long, who has been an excellent player for us over the years, I hope whatever is decided suits him.
 
tonyw said:
Harsh on Shemmy, I think. Maybe on average that's true, but at times this season he's fluctuated wildly from Premier League to National League South quality. And he does have Championship-level pace.

And that's why - in a squad where we're desperately short of forwards with the quality to play at this level - he's a must-start because on any given day he could do something brilliant and unlock even Championship defenses.

If we stay up, and if we're able to bring in the 3-4 new forwards we need, then maybe (hopefully) his role diminishes next season. But I reckon it's unfair to label him as a League One player, because I think he does have Championship qualities......just maybe not Championship consistency.
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Shemmy has played 12 games in the PL and 82 in the Championship for 4 different clubs, so many seem to think that he is a Championship player.
 
Foley said:
Shemmy has played 12 games in the PL and 82 in the Championship for 4 different clubs, so many seem to think that he is a Championship player.
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He reminds me of a Chris Allen in that it doesn’t always work (if it worked more often he wouldn’t be here) but he is one of few players we have who the opposition worry about, his pace at least puts them on the back foot occasionally.
 
tonyw said:
Harsh on Shemmy, I think. Maybe on average that's true, but at times this season he's fluctuated wildly from Premier League to National League South quality. And he does have Championship-level pace.

And that's why - in a squad where we're desperately short of forwards with the quality to play at this level - he's a must-start because on any given day he could do something brilliant and unlock even Championship defenses.

If we stay up, and if we're able to bring in the 3-4 new forwards we need, then maybe (hopefully) his role diminishes next season. But I reckon it's unfair to label him as a League One player, because I think he does have Championship qualities......just maybe not Championship consistency.
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It was. I like lots of things about him but it was only really to demonstrate that at this level you need a little more than work rate and dedication. He’d run circles around 99% of wingers for effort and probably pace in a straight line but I don’t think if we went down there’d be a queue of takers willing to pay a fee. I might be wrong but I doubt it and if there was it’s unlikely to be a side with much potential beyond ours this season.


But this conversation is all about where as a club we need to evolve. it would be hard on Shemmy to park him next season, just as it would be to tell Sam Long his time here is up, but that’s a time we need to be excited about because if these players who’ve made big contributions are now down the ranks or allowed to leave then we’re doing something right in the bigger picture. All I’m saying is it’s not something we should run away from - it’s positive change for the right reasons.
 
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