National News Greensill


Hancock’s turn.
Whilst it looks awful optically, as the article says there is no evidence he has done anything wrong. Pretty stupid to set himself up for this type of news story but if he has declared it as an interest and assuming there is no evidence of him influencing any procurements involving this firm, he's not broken any rules. We have to sign an annual COI policy and list any family members whose employment might be seen as a COI or any share holdings we have in companies that we might deal with in a professional capacity. As a result I actively avoid buying shares in the companies that operate in my sector so as to avoid the type of bad press/suspicion that SoS is now facing. Wallop 1 Hancock 0.
 
Whilst it looks awful optically, as the article says there is no evidence he has done anything wrong. Pretty stupid to set himself up for this type of news story but if he has declared it as an interest and assuming there is no evidence of him influencing any procurements involving this firm, he's not broken any rules. We have to sign an annual COI policy and list any family members whose employment might be seen as a COI or any share holdings we have in companies that we might deal with in a professional capacity. As a result I actively avoid buying shares in the companies that operate in my sector so as to avoid the type of bad press/suspicion that SoS is now facing. Wallop 1 Hancock 0.
Indeed. A very good point was made on QT last night by a long serving and now retired Civil Servant, that for the most part, those in public office think twice before taking so much as a cup of tea from businesses they deal with. That has very much been my experience of the vast majority career public servants who take their role paid for by public money very seriously indeed and take pride in their level of conduct. She also went on to point out that this government is in the process of rooting out many of those dedicated career public servants and replacing them with what they consider to be the "brightest and best talents" from private sector, or straight out of top unis following the private education and many of who lack that moral compass and general understanding of standards of proberty in public service (I'm not talking politicians here - I'm talking the ones who do the actual work). Many consequently fail to see the problem with cozying up to big business (and being their advisers) and blurring the lines between the two. That is very much to the detriment of public and civil service and the standard that we ought to expect from it.

From my time in public sector, I was offered gifts of appreciation on a few occasions, from the odd bottle to tickets to cricket, football and rugby matches from contractors we had used. I refused and rejected every single one. Firstly because that kind of "palm greasing" should never win favour, anywhere, ever (private or public sector) and secondly because you will get work based on the quality of your tender and the quality of the work you deliver, nothing more, nothing less. And finally and most importantly because it look s bloody awful and calls my integrity into question!
 
Well surely it has to be a "Tory thing" right now (I don't disagree with you on that) because the Tories actually hold the sort of influence and decision making power that lobbying is designed to target. So in many ways its a natural thing. There were lobbying scandals during the Brown years too and surely will be again if Labour ever get back to power.

We're all swinging at the same target here I suppose. I guess it comes down to whether you hold either one side or the other in higher esteem. For what it's worth, I don't think I trust any of them.
I agree that we are largely swinging at the same target here. Abuse of the system is regretably commonplace - from claiming for your duck-house to primary residence swapping and god knows what the Ukippers were pulling out of Brussels - but this a government lead by a man with no moral compass, in fact, let's call him out as the liar he has been throughout his career. Exemplified when he hid from the Heathrow vote by suddenly finding himself a foreign trip. The man who would prostrate himself in front of a bulldozer to stop runway development!

From the red bus lie, to the Cummings incident, Patel's bullying, government contracts, Jennifer Arcuri, the recent lie about the state of TFL finances when he left the mayoral role and so on.
 
Over the years many hundreds probably thousands of MPs have employed family members to run their office so I'd imagine there are a fair few Tories in that number but I haven't any evidence that they haven't paid their respective family members anything other than the going rate just like you have no evidence that Jess Phillips didn't.
As RB has already observed its not a case of overpaying the family member, but instead the principle of her employing a lift engineer as an office manager and paying him taxpayer money. Skimming off the top of "the system".

Is your point that you don't see anything wrong with that as a concept (regardless of whether they be Tory or Labour)?

Because it doesn't sit right with me.
 
I agree that we are largely swinging at the same target here. Abuse of the system is regretably commonplace - from claiming for your duck-house to primary residence swapping and god knows what the Ukippers were pulling out of Brussels - but this a government lead by a man with no moral compass, in fact, let's call him out as the liar he has been throughout his career. Exemplified when he hid from the Heathrow vote by suddenly finding himself a foreign trip. The man who would prostrate himself in front of a bulldozer to stop runway development!

From the red bus lie, to the Cummings incident, Patel's bullying, government contracts, Jennifer Arcuri, the recent lie about the state of TFL finances when he left the mayoral role and so on.
I do hope that if he is ever brought to any form of justice over any of his actions, then his punishment should be to be indefinitely suspended from a zipwire above Westminster Bridge lamely waving two tiny Union Jacks.
 
As RB has already observed its not a case of overpaying the family member, but instead the principle of her employing a lift engineer as an office manager and paying him taxpayer money. Skimming off the top of "the system".

Is your point that you don't see anything wrong with that as a concept (regardless of whether they be Tory or Labour)?

Because it doesn't sit right with me.
Providing they are doing the work at what would be considered a fair rate I personally have no problem with it.

If any MP employs a family member in a sham work arrangement it's fraud. If there is evidence Jess Phillips did this then bring it on, I'll be the first to condemn her, but without such evidence you are no worse than the gutter press trying to falsely smear someone.
 
Providing they are doing the work at what would be considered a fair rate I personally have no problem with it.

If any MP employs a family member in a sham work arrangement it's fraud. If there is evidence Jess Phillips did this then bring it on, I'll be the first to condemn her, but without such evidence you are no worse than the gutter press trying to falsely smear someone.
I'd make a distinction between petty profiteering on expenses and similar, which is regrettably widespread and pretty crap but not seriously significant, and awarding big contracts or obtaining favours in a way that dishonestly bypasses proper procedure and involves huge sums.
 
I'd make a distinction between petty profiteering on expenses and similar, which is regrettably widespread and pretty crap but not seriously significant, and awarding big contracts or obtaining favours in a way that dishonestly bypasses proper procedure and involves huge sums.
There's that as well. Ones a drop in the ocean the other is, well, the ocean.
 
There's that as well. Ones a drop in the ocean the other is, well, the ocean.
The first is morally bad and costs the public a little - the second costs the public a lot and most importantly means you aren't doing your job properly
 
Providing they are doing the work at what would be considered a fair rate I personally have no problem with it.

If any MP employs a family member in a sham work arrangement it's fraud. If there is evidence Jess Phillips did this then bring it on, I'll be the first to condemn her, but without such evidence you are no worse than the gutter press trying to falsely smear someone.
No I suppose any lift engineer could make the lateral step to Constituency Support Manager. I mean, its a natural career move isn't it. One minute you're fixing lifts, the next you're providing political support to an MP in a senior role. I'm sure he must have provided best overall value for taxpayer money when compared to the other (presumably qualified) candidates for that role...
 
Ok, I'll play your game. MP at random, Jess Phillips, how is she trying to milk the system for her own gain?

She used taxpayer money to hire her husband to set up her office for her when she became an MP. She said that she needed somebody she knew was tech-savvy to set the office up for her (plug in a few computers, turn on a router and switch on the printer) and that she knew he was qualified and had the skills to do it. He was a lift engineer. I can’t remember how much he was paid for doing this, but I remember being so surprised at the time that my trousers fell down.

Illegal? No. First person to do such a thing? No. Milking the system for her own gain? Sounds like she at least gave an udder a pinch.

Didn`t need too.

Cronyism. :)

The list from both parties is littered with such things...

David Chaytor (Labour) pleaded guilty to charges of false accounting a total of £18,350, and was sentenced to 18 months imprisonment.
Jim Devine (Labour) pleaded not guilty and was found guilty on two counts but cleared of a third (relating to £360) He had fraudulently claimed a total of £8,385 and on 31 March 2011 was sentenced to 16 months imprisonment
Margaret Moran (Labour) 15 charges of false accounting and six charges of forgery. She was summoned to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 19 September 2011 where she was reported to have wept throughout the hearing. Was later judged unfit to plead and was leniently sentenced in line with the law.
Elliott Morley (Labour) admitted two charges of dishonesty and was sentenced at Southwark Crown Court on 20 May 2011 to 16 months imprisonment.

All prosecuted by the then DPP Kier Starmer...........
 
Providing they are doing the work at what would be considered a fair rate I personally have no problem with it.

If any MP employs a family member in a sham work arrangement it's fraud. If there is evidence Jess Phillips did this then bring it on, I'll be the first to condemn her, but without such evidence you are no worse than the gutter press trying to falsely smear someone.

I guess the same principle also applies to companies winning government contracts.
 
I guess the same principle also applies to companies winning government contracts.
Not necessarily. When much larger sums of money are involved the controls, checks and balances etc need to be greater.
 
The key phrase there is "over the course of time". Politicians have been taking advantage of their office for centuries; just keep the great unwashed quiet with a few crumbs from the table.

But come the glorious day, comrade.....
 
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