National News Govt lose in Court again

[Essexyellows]

A fitting sacrifice to Jingoism. Behold the future of our insular nation.

To hell with judicial process, revenge is purer.

Or, it seems a shame that we devolve justice to a shithole country that we neither recognise or support.

Judicial process is continuing, unfortunately it maybe very slow due to the difficult circumstances the individual put themselves in.

 

[Marked Ox]

She can appeal as & when she becomes accessible.
She had Bangladeshi citizenship from birth as well as British citizenship.
Between her birth and reaching 21 she could have applied for her Bangladeshi citizenship.
She chose not to do that and, in the interim, lost her British citizenship.
She made herself stateless by her own actions.

Her legal team must have contact with her to progress the cases in the Supreme Court or are they just acting in her interest without proper instruction?

The legal team don't have access, read the news reports.

Again, no the UK Govt made her stateless.

 

[Paul Cannell]

She had Bangladeshi citizenship from birth as well as British citizenship.

No. She may have had, if she had applied, but she didn't.

Even the BBC says so "
It was thought Ms Begum had Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother.

But the ministry of foreign affairs said the government was "deeply concerned" she had been "erroneously identified" as a Bangladeshi national.

In a statement, it said Ms Begum had never applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh and had never visited the country."

And so does Bangladesh.

 

[bazzer9461]

So you mean she'd face justice with due process. Sounds good to me on balance as we are upholding that what we as a country lambast others for not doing, and we aren't dumping it on the Syrian Kurds who have enough problems already.

Also, she was groomed online as a 15 year old. Kids get groomed, in this instance the process isn't any different to what some paedophiles do, so are the kids who get sexually abused at fault?

But she would have to serve a long sentence and if she was groomed she would have to go through a de-radicalism programme, but at 15 or not most children have a sense of purpose, at 15 I had made the choice to join the RN passed my medical at 15 and entered at 16 years and 2 months, I made the decision didn’t need any prompting as to what i did when I left school.
15 I don’t think is an impressionable age I think most people at that age are aware of life.
So harsh as I may seem but a life sentence if found guilty wouldn’t be to disproportionate of a sentence.

 

[bazzer9461]

It might sound harsh but she knew what she was doing when she went to Syria.

She was 15! Look at your own children or even yourself at 15 and ask could you make sound, informed, rational, life affecting political and social judgements at that age.

If your answer is yes, then fair enough, but then all 15 year olds must have the vote.

15 years old isn’t to much of a young or impressionable age most children of that age have decided in their futures college and courses to study to lead to the employment that they want to do. My Grandauughter had already made her mind up of her chosen profession, and spoke to the teachers who are advising her on the educational path she should follow, I’m not trying to argue with you but I’m sorry but a majority of 15 year olds know their chosen path.

 

[QR]

15 years old isn’t to much of a young or impressionable age most children of that age have decided in their futures college and courses to study to lead to the employment that they want to do. My Grandauughter had already made her mind up of her chosen profession, and spoke to the teachers who are advising her on the educational path she should follow, I’m not trying to argue with you but I’m sorry but a majority of 15 year olds know their chosen path.

I don't dispute your experience but in the UK you are not mature enough to vote until you are 18. For a country's laws to have credibility and fairness there had to be consistency.

 

[Marked Ox]

But she would have to serve a long sentence and if she was groomed she would have to go through a de-radicalism programme, but at 15 or not most children have a sense of purpose, at 15 I had made the choice to join the RN passed my medical at 15 and entered at 16 years and 2 months, I made the decision didn’t need any prompting as to what i did when I left school.
15 I don’t think is an impressionable age I think most people at that age are aware of life.
So harsh as I may seem but a life sentence if found guilty wouldn’t be to disproportionate of a sentence.

As said I think on balance it is right that she face UK justice (whatever it decides) actually in the UK so I think we agree?

Your comments about age and not being impressionable, I can only assume you think 15 year olds aren't groomed and therefore sexually abused by paedophiles or am I wrong? Because the tactics won't be much different.

 

[bazzer9461]

I don't dispute your experience but in the UK you are not mature enough to vote until you are 18. For a country's laws to have credibility and fairness there had to be consistency.

Ok I time has moved on now where pupils have to stay in school but I left at 16 as did many abs followed our hearts and did what we wanted to, if at 15 back then with all the careers advice we had if we couldn’t make our own decisions then that would have been poor. But with the 15 year olds today playing their x box or play station I suppose they couldn’t make and informed decision about their futures.

 

[bazzer9461]

As said I think on balance it is right that she face UK justice (whatever it decides) actually in the UK so I think we agree?

Your comments about age and not being impressionable, I can only assume you think 15 year olds aren't groomed and therefore sexually abused by paedophiles or am I wrong? Because the tactics won't be much different.

15 years old back in my day grooming wasn’t as bad imas it is now but a paedophile back then trying it on would have had a good kick in the B*****s before he/she would have been dealt with.
Oh and back in my day it’s called Old Skool

 

[QR]

Ok I time has moved on now where pupils have to stay in school but I left at 16 as did many abs followed our hearts and did what we wanted to, if at 15 back then with all the careers advice we had if we couldn’t make our own decisions then that would have been poor. But with the 15 year olds today playing their x box or play station I suppose they couldn’t make and informed decision about their futures.

But many will have made the wrong decision at 15 (or a decision they regretted when more experienced) but in the case of a career it is unlikely to have an extreme and deadly consequence. If it had I feel the individuals would have not been given the choice because they would not have been deemed mature enough to make the such a dangerous decision. Look at the consequence of the young having access to knives.

 

[OUFCGav]

15 years old isn’t to much of a young or impressionable age most children of that age have decided in their futures college and courses to study to lead to the employment that they want to do. My Grandauughter had already made her mind up of her chosen profession, and spoke to the teachers who are advising her on the educational path she should follow, I’m not trying to argue with you but I’m sorry but a majority of 15 year olds know their chosen path.

Ok, but if a 35 year old man started dating your 15 year old granddaughter and told you she would be married and pregnant by the time she was 16, and she said "grandad its what I want" - would you trust her judgement?

 

[Marked Ox]

15 years old back in my day grooming wasn’t as bad imas it is now but a paedophile back then trying it on would have had a good kick in the B*****s before he/she would have been dealt with.
Oh and back in my day it’s called Old Skool

I suspect grooming was plentiful back in your day, just more hidden as the internet has brought it out more into the open.

 

[bazzer9461]

But many will have made the wrong decision at 15 (or a decision they regretted when more experienced) but in the case of a career it is unlikely to have an extreme and deadly consequence. If it had I feel the individuals would have not been given the choice because they would not have been deemed mature enough to make the such a dangerous decision. Look at the consequence of the young having access to knives.

That’s the problem with today the youth are not following the path they ought to and a lot of that is down to poor parenting. A lot of parents nowadays have the attitude “ go on get on with it whatever you’re doing “ they haven’t a clue, and that’s the problem.

 

[bazzer9461]

Ok, but if a 35 year old man started dating your 15 year old granddaughter and told you she would be married and pregnant by the time she was 16, and she said "grandad its what I want" - would you trust her judgement?

I wouldn’t be happy no butjits something that my granddaughters parents wouldn’t allow even though it’s not illegal. But I trust my granddaughter she has had a sensible upbringing. Oh and at 15!she wouldn’t be dating a 35?year old as there would be consequences.

 

[bazzer9461]

I suspect grooming was plentiful back in your day, just more hidden as the internet has brought it out more into the open.

It probably was it was called PIL but there was a lot that was being done unofficially in major towns that kept it to a minimum.

 

[OUFCGav]

I wouldn’t be happy no butjits something that my granddaughters parents wouldn’t allow even though it’s not illegal. But I trust my granddaughter she has had a sensible upbringing. Oh and at 15!she wouldn’t be dating a 35?year old as there would be consequences.

Ok, so you are saying your 15 year old gd shouldn't be trusted to make that decision? How is that different from Begum?

As a country we need to be standing up to our responsibility, and that includes rule of law and justice. Yes, she should face consequences for actions, and if she really is a danger to the public she will be in custody and in our control. The political footballing of someone of that age does us no favours, and likely actually endangers the country more.

 

[Essexyellows]

The legal team don't have access, read the news reports.

Again, no the UK Govt made her stateless.

Tasnime Akunjee has been representing Begum and her family since 2015 thanks to the wonderful legal aid system.

There has been plenty of time and the where with all to apply for her Bangladeshi citizenship, her birth right, prior to her 21st birthday.

When the Government removed her British citizenship she still had the choice to apply to Bangladesh, she didn`t.

The Government has not made her stateless her actions, or lack of, have.

She found it easy enough to slip into Syria and, if she wished, could just as easily returned like many others to face justice.

She chose not too.

 

[bazzer9461]

Ok, so you are saying your 15 year old gd shouldn't be trusted to make that decision? How is that different from Begum?

As a country we need to be standing up to our responsibility, and that includes rule of law and justice. Yes, she should face consequences for actions, and if she really is a danger to the public she will be in custody and in our control. The political footballing of someone of that age does us no favours, and likely actually endangers the country more.

At 15 it would be illegal for her to have a relationship with an older man and on those grounds no. Begum along with her two friends knew exactly what they were doing. She went to support ISIS and knew she would be a bride and I’m not sure what the law or whether there was a law for the age of a person getting married was illegal or not.
if a some point she is allowed to return even if she is allowed to appeal the Home Secretary’s decision to strip her of her status as a U.K. resident, once of the plane she can be arrested and charged with terrorism offences and be sentenced to life and after she is released then she can appeal her residential status.

 

[Marked Ox]

Tasnime Akunjee has been representing Begum and her family since 2015 thanks to the wonderful legal aid system.

There has been plenty of time and the where with all to apply for her Bangladeshi citizenship, her birth right, prior to her 21st birthday.

When the Government removed her British citizenship she still had the choice to apply to Bangladesh, she didn`t.

The Government has not made her stateless her actions, or lack of, have.

She found it easy enough to slip into Syria and, if she wished, could just as easily returned like many others to face justice.

She chose not too.

Again from what you've said, she'd have to apply which means she didn't have Bangladesh citizenship. The Bangladeshi Govt would also have to approve that application, they wouldn't. The Bangladeshi Govt have said she doesn't have citizenship therefore our Govt has made her stateless which is against international law.

I could apply for US citizenship, just because I apply doesn't make me a US citizen.

She is being held in a prison camp, it is in the media reports, just like the lawyers can't get access, she can't just walk out.

 

[OUFCGav]

At 15 it would be illegal for her to have a relationship with an older man and on those grounds no. Begum along with her two friends knew exactly what they were doing. She went to support ISIS and knew she would be a bride and I’m not sure what the law or whether there was a law for the age of a person getting married was illegal or not.
if a some point she is allowed to return even if she is allowed to appeal the Home Secretary’s decision to strip her of her status as a U.K. resident, once of the plane she can be arrested and charged with terrorism offences and be sentenced to life and after she is released then she can appeal her residential status.

Bit if she is knowingly in the relationship what would be the difference?

But as she has been made stateless she cannot return so the arrest and charge cannot happen. How many other people that have committed crimes has this country made stateless? Why this particular girl?