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National News Govt lose in Court again

bazzer9461

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I thought we shared information, they are alleged to have murdered 27 people, surely they have to have a trial. If they’re found guilty why shouldn’t the death penalty be an option.
Ok in the US they will be sentenced to death but then again over here a 3 month curfew 100 hours unpaid work and £150 fine and £75 victims surcharge is probably all they would get with Leyla Moran and Corbyn asking for an appeal over the severity of the sentence.
 

Marked Ox

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I thought we shared information, they are alleged to have murdered 27 people, surely they have to have a trial. If they’re found guilty why shouldn’t the death penalty be an option.
Ok in the US they will be sentenced to death but then again over here a 3 month curfew 100 hours unpaid work and £150 fine and £75 victims surcharge is probably all they would get with Leyla Moran and Corbyn asking for an appeal over the severity of the sentence.
The issue, in a roundabout way, is really that their Mum is challenging why they aren't being tried in the UK. She understands they have to face justice but she believes it should be in the UK.

The challenge is that the UK shared information against data protection. In theory the Govt may have to ask for that info back, but don't see how practical that is in the reality, or decide to prosecute in the UK.
 

bazzer9461

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The issue, in a roundabout way, is really that their Mum is challenging why they aren't being tried in the UK. She understands they have to face justice but she believes it should be in the UK.

The challenge is that the UK shared information against data protection. In theory the Govt may have to ask for that info back, but don't see how practical that is in the reality, or decide to prosecute in the UK.
Whether the mother feels they should be tried in the U.K. under the circumstances as to what has led to them being held by the US is immaterial the so called Beatles committed war crimes against the allies/coalition so surely they could be tried by any of the Coalition, and with America’s punishment if they are found guilty then maybe that’s the best Country to try them.
 

Marked Ox

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Whether the mother feels they should be tried in the U.K. under the circumstances as to what has led to them being held by the US is immaterial the so called Beatles committed war crimes against the allies/coalition so surely they could be tried by any of the Coalition, and with America’s punishment if they are found guilty then maybe that’s the best Country to try them.
It isn't immaterial, they are British and a review is ongoing about whether the UK Govt should prosecute after initial not. The US Govt is waiting to see if we are going to prosecute iirc.

Also, this legal challenge happened because of the US's punishment and we do have law on providing information to countries that have the death penalty. The article explains it so it is material.

Edit: Also, it is material as it is also about the precedent this action has set.
 
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Essexyellows

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Their "mother" should be told to Foxtrot Oscar and is probably being funded by the taxpayer & legal aid.

Her children played with fire and might get burnt. Tough.

Trying to find a purely technical/legal reason to save their lives, hopefully, will get thrown out somewhere down the line.

Couple of 9mm bullets to the back of the head would be efficient, cheap and ironic.

I would expect the "Ahhh but that makes us as bad as them....." however there are people around the planet is better off without.
 

Marked Ox

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Their "mother" should be told to Foxtrot Oscar and is probably being funded by the taxpayer & legal aid.

Her children played with fire and might get burnt. Tough.

Trying to find a purely technical/legal reason to save their lives, hopefully, will get thrown out somewhere down the line.

Couple of 9mm bullets to the back of the head would be efficient, cheap and ironic.

I would expect the "Ahhh but that makes us as bad as them....." however there are people around the planet is better off without.
I prefer having a legal system that is consistent for all. And the next person affected might not seem as a clearcut case as this one, hence the precedent being set.
 

Essexyellows

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I prefer having a legal system that is consistent for all. And the next person affected might not seem as a clearcut case as this one, hence the precedent being set.
I prefer a legal system that does not protect the plainly guilty, especially those who have committed particularly heinous crimes. There should be a special category for terrorist offenders. Ideally with a terminal ending.
 

bazzer9461

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It isn't immaterial, they are British and a review is ongoing about whether the UK Govt should prosecute after initial not. The US Govt is waiting to see if we are going to prosecute iirc.

Also, this legal challenge happened because of the US's punishment and we do have law on providing information to countries that have the death penalty. The article explains it so it is material.

Edit: Also, it is material as it is also about the precedent this action has set.
But are you saying they shouldn’t be tried in the USA because of the death penalty? Not sure if you are or not but I personally wouldn’t lose any sleep if they were sentenced to death.
 

Marked Ox

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But are you saying they shouldn’t be tried in the USA because of the death penalty? Not sure if you are or not but I personally wouldn’t lose any sleep if they were sentenced to death.
Yes, unless the US agree to take the death penalty off the table. But primarily I'm saying they should be prosecuted here as they are British rather than in the US.
 

Marked Ox

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I prefer a legal system that does not protect the plainly guilty, especially those who have committed particularly heinous crimes. There should be a special category for terrorist offenders. Ideally with a terminal ending.
That is why we have a legal system as it also protects the innocent or wrongly accused. And they haven't been found guilty yet either. As I say I rather like a consistent legal system that is the same for all.
 

bazzer9461

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Yes, unless the US agree to take the death penalty off the table. But primarily I'm saying they should be prosecuted here as they are British rather than in the US.
I get what you’re saying but they went with the intention of killing and it didn’t matter where the victims were from as technically one of the victims country could demand they be tried in their country
 

Marked Ox

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I get what you’re saying but they went with the intention of killing and it didn’t matter where the victims were from as technically one of the victims country could demand they be tried in their country
But the victims country haven't made that request afaik.
 

bazzer9461

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That is why we have a legal system as it also protects the innocent or wrongly accused. And they haven't been found guilty yet either. As I say I rather like a consistent legal system that is the same for all.
I agree wrongful convictions are a problem as with Tim Evans but these are 4 Brits who went to join Isis and I would have assumed the evidence of them being responsible for the deaths of those 27 dead.
 

Marked Ox

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I agree wrongful convictions are a problem as with Tim Evans but these are 4 Brits who went to join Isis and I would have assumed the evidence of them being responsible for the deaths of those 27 dead.
But that has to be proven in Court, which is the basis of our legal system.
 

Paul Cannell

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M'yep. The law doesn't assume, it proves (to a close point); which is probably a bit reassuring if it's you facing the death penalty.

It's important because there are other blokes in trials where the country was just certain they are guilty who were eventually proved innocent - Birmingham 6, Jackson 5, Guildford 4 etc.

The process matters, and it should be our process because they're our citiz sorry subjects.
 
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