Going Green...is it worth it?

Absolutely. My perspective is climate science is still in its early infancy, so it's very easy to pick at the assumptions both sides make and prove points because the deeper details are still being worked out on the fly. Consensus can be subjective, rather than objective. So when someone says we have 12 years to reverse the trend, are they postulating on belief rather than fact?

We have so much to learn about carbon storage in the ground, for example that is only now being peeked at.
 
Absolutely. My perspective is climate science is still in its early infancy, so it's very easy to pick at the assumptions both sides make and prove points because the deeper details are still being worked out on the fly. Consensus can be subjective, rather than objective. So when someone says we have 12 years to reverse the trend , are they postulating on belief rather than fact?

We have so much to learn about carbon storage in the ground, for example that is only now being peeked at.

In short, they're talking B*****s.

Climate Science is about balance of probabilities. Anyone who claims certainties in terms of timelines is either a bad scientist, or just abandoning the science in favour of better headlines.

If they said something like (numbers made up by me) 'It's 95% probable that the Earth will one day no longer be able to support human life if we don't reverse Co2 emissions within time T, where T follows a normal distribution with a mean of 12 years, and a standard deviation of 3 years', then I could accept it.

But for some reason that doesn't make as good a headline...….
 
In short, they're talking B*****s.

Climate Science is about balance of probabilities. Anyone who claims certainties in terms of timelines is either a bad scientist, or just abandoning the science in favour of better headlines.

If they said something like (numbers made up by me) 'It's 95% probable that the Earth will one day no longer be able to support human life if we don't reverse Co2 emissions within time T, where T follows a normal distribution with a mean of 12 years, and a standard deviation of 3 years', then I could accept it.

But for some reason that doesn't make as good a headline...….
Exactly. This is a fascinating article about the struggles in Germany powering itself with renewables vs coal, etc. The original article in Der Spiegel is even more interesting. If Germany, as a power house is struggling to move to renewables, it highlights the complexity of transitioning energy needs in the short term, and it's almost naive for people to think that. Some of the figures spent are utterly eye watering.

One sentence kind of sums it up for me "Experts are getting bogged down in details -- producing papers, but no strategies. "
 
Yes, the speed of what might happen is conjecture. And do you know what, all the scientists who think climate change is happening might be wrong and the few outliers and deniers might be right.

But surely at the very very least it is a possibility that it IS happening?

If it is happening and we 'go green' we might just save our way of life (without being *too* apocalyptic!)
If it isn't happening and we 'go green' we will reduce the amount of plastic in the ocean (of which there is no serious denial), stop burning (so much) fossil fuel, reduce atmospheric pollution, maybe even slow the rate of animal extinctions etc.
If it is happening and we do nothing, none of the above will happen, plus there is the distinct possibility of calamitous consequences for us, and our children.

I can't help thinking that the phrase 'better safe than sorry' should apply - even if you are not totally convinced by climate science.
 
Happened to catch up with Hugh FW plastics programme last night where he travelled to Ineos`s Grangemouth plant that produces plastic "nurdles" (raw polymers)....................... the volumes were staggering.
There was also a great explanation as to the "fallacy" of recycling as it just creates a larger market for plastics.
Was a great watch!
 
I saw a tweet the other day that was basically, it's not worth recycling anything but metal due to the effort involved. I'd disagree with it, but it is something that I see popping up more often now./
 
Think you are missing the point. Its about little changes all adding up. Bands need to look at what equipment they are hauling about, can they cut back, can they tour with 5 support trucks rather than 10? Can they use local equipment instead of flying large containers around the globe? That kind of thing. It's easy to criticise those in the public eye. It's easy to call 'hypocracy' whilst doing nothing yourself.

Of course, a Coldplay tour is never going to be able to eliminate all of that noise pollution they create anyway...
 
Think you are missing the point. Its about little changes all adding up. Bands need to look at what equipment they are hauling about, can they cut back, can they tour with 5 support trucks rather than 10? Can they use local equipment instead of flying large containers around the globe? That kind of thing. It's easy to criticise those in the public eye. It's easy to call 'hypocracy' whilst doing nothing yourself.

Of course, a Coldplay tour is never going to be able to eliminate all of that noise pollution they create anyway...

However they have already made their impact, and a substantial few quid, so their individual "payback" should be much,much more than someone who works 9-5 in an office, walks to work, recycles as much as the local policy allows and is considerate in his shopping habits. ?

I concur about the noise.............. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
However they have already made their impact, and a substantial few quid, so their individual "payback" should be much,much more than someone who works 9-5 in an office, walks to work, recycles as much as the local policy allows and is considerate in his shopping habits. ?

I concur about the noise.............. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Paying more because you have more. Interesting idea, but it will never catch on.
 
However they have already made their impact, and a substantial few quid, so their individual "payback" should be much,much more than someone who works 9-5 in an office, walks to work, recycles as much as the local policy allows and is considerate in his shopping habits. ?

I concur about the noise.............. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Mmm, don't you think you should delete that before your pals in TPUK see it? Communistic drivel, the rich shall never pay. :giggle:
 
Think you are missing the point. Its about little changes all adding up. Bands need to look at what equipment they are hauling about, can they cut back, can they tour with 5 support trucks rather than 10? Can they use local equipment instead of flying large containers around the globe? That kind of thing. It's easy to criticise those in the public eye. It's easy to call 'hypocracy' whilst doing nothing yourself.

Of course, a Coldplay tour is never going to be able to eliminate all of that noise pollution they create anyway...

And this is the crux of it. At an individual level, we’re never going to see 100% recycling rates and sustainable living. But 95% of the population trying to be sustainable imperfectly will net bigger rewards than 5% living as yurt-dwelling, vegan yogurt-knitting hippies. Sure, Coldplay’s tours may not be 100% sustainable at present but they’ve at least moved in the right direction and acknowledged that they should do something about it. That’s all anyone can ask for at this time.

The mindset of ‘well, X is doing Y and that makes them a hypocrite’ needs to stop. I’ve said before in one of these threads that we cannot just stop the modern world, find alternatives and then get moving again, all living sustainably. We need to gradually get there. Nowadays, I produce far more recycling than landfill waste, eat less meat, forgo those awful single-use coffee cups at coffee chains and, when offered, stick an extra fiver on the occasional flight I take in order to supplement green initiatives. I wasn’t doing that 15 years ago. The culture shift is moving in the right direction.

The biggest move should come from government though. Legislation can have a massive impact because it forces corporate and individuals behaviour. For example, if the government legislated that single-use coffee cups were outlawed tomorrow, there would be uproar for 48 hours. Small cafes would complain and the bigger chains would see a sudden drop in profits. But, we lived without them in the past and we quite frankly do not need them in the future. The chains would be working on a sustainable alternative pretty sharpish and - you know what – people might just take the time to sit down for a drink rather than charging around with their name misspelled on their takeaway drink. Customers would take their own cups in the meantime.

It might sound draconian but legislation and research and development will solve these issues overall.
 
Paying more because you have more. Interesting idea, but it will never catch on.
Mmm, don't you think you should delete that before your pals in TPUK see it? Communistic drivel, the rich shall never pay. :giggle:

In terms of environmental impact theirs is far larger then you or I and (I`ll guess) their capacity to rebalance it is the same...... much like tax 3% of the population pay 50% of the take. ;)?

I won`t delete anything thank you, you can have individual opinions on differing things...... one size can`t be made to fit all, one of the reasons we want out of the EU...
 
I won`t delete anything thank you, you can have individual opinions on differing things...... one size can`t be made to fit all, one of the reasons we want out of the EU...

Well, I don't care what you post; but do keep away from Mappin & Webb branches unless your want to end up like Adnan Khashoggi ;)
 
Got back from a visit to China yesterday and the hotel had removed all ‘non essential items’ from the rooms as decreed by the ‘Peoples Republic’ and so on. It was Shenzhen and Guangzhou so modern cities compared to others but first time to both.

Really impressed with the increased use of electric vehicles and scooters (not to mention it cost me £24 for the bullet train from HK). The factory I was at was also really good and whilst they hadn’t started lowering emissions had done baseline monitoring with a view to reducing.

Its a modern tech region and to be expected but compared to a lot of other countries in Asia and South America I was impressed.
 
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