Going Green...is it worth it?

[Essexyellows]

Myself & Mrs EY are reasonably environmentally conscious. If it was on a 1-10 scale we are up around the 7 mark, we do the recycling, don`t waste food, use public transport or walk/cycle more often than using the car that kind of thing.

But is it worth it when populous countries like China/India et al don`t give a fig? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48353341

Discuss.....

 

[m]

Myself & Mrs EY are reasonably environmentally conscious. If it was on a 1-10 scale we are up around the 7 mark, we do the recycling, don`t waste food, use public transport or walk/cycle more often than using the car that kind of thing.

But is it worth it when populous countries like China/India et al don`t give a fig? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48353341

Discuss.....

It's certainly a convenient excuse to do nothing!

Much like yourself I'd say me and Lady M are a 7ish.

Change your own part of the world before you worry about the rest of it I say.

 

[AbbeyOx]

It's certainly a convenient excuse to do nothing!

Much like yourself I'd say me and Lady M are a 7ish.

Change your own part of the world before you worry about the rest of it I say.

definitely agree with that. too many think why bother cos it won't make any difference but if everyone did their own bit it's a start. I think the younger generation are better with this because of education so there is hope for the future

 

[Essexyellows]

definitely agree with that. too many think why bother cos it won't make any difference but if everyone did their own bit it's a start. I think the younger generation are better with this because of education so there is hope for the future

I would take issue with that! Having two big Universities in town (Leicester & De Montfort) we endure this on a regular basis.


They carry all the stuff there but don`t take the rubbish home.....

 

[AbbeyOx]

I would take issue with that! Having two big Universities in town (Leicester & De Montfort) we endure this on a regular basis.
View attachment 1484

They carry all the stuff there but don`t take the rubbish home.....

that's just bloody laziness. but generally education appears to be more environment focused. my niece and nephew are much more aware of global warming than I was at their age ( OK 30 odd years ago it wasn't talked about as much as now)
On the other hand I was outside climbing trees and the like rather than sat indoors burning up electricity on xstations and playbox.
point being though I think the youngsters growing up now are much more aware as they'll be living with the consequences of environmental destruction

 

[Marked Ox]

Tbf, it isn't so black and white with China as they are mass polluters but also have plenty on the other side of the balance sheet as these demonstrate:

Electricity & Gas Supply Company | Click Energy

Click Energy offers great value energy and award-winning customer service. Get a quote or sign up now.

www.clickenergy.com.au

Top renewable energy countries: Here are the highest producers of clean power

From China and the US to India and Germany, here we profile the top renewable energy countries around the world pioneering clean power

www.compelo.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources (China is just behind us as a % of renewable production against total energy production)

Three countries are leading the renewable energy revolution | World Economic Forum

On CFCs I believe the Chinese authorities in planning to deal with it as it looks absolutely bad on them and there is no economic benefit to the overall economy as it is for the domestic market rather than in competition with overseas companies. Also, it is an easy propaganda win in their trade war with the US.

Personally, I do what I can including having the majority of the back garden set over for wildlife rather than just straight low cut lawn.

 

[Sarge]

I would take issue with that! Having two big Universities in town (Leicester & De Montfort) we endure this on a regular basis.
View attachment 1484

They carry all the stuff there but don`t take the rubbish home.....

bluddy stoodunts

 

[Stranger]

Think globally, act locally.

 

[AbbeyOx]

Tbf, it isn't so black and white with China as they are mass polluters but also have plenty on the other side of the balance sheet as these demonstrate:

Electricity & Gas Supply Company | Click Energy

Click Energy offers great value energy and award-winning customer service. Get a quote or sign up now.

www.clickenergy.com.au

Top renewable energy countries: Here are the highest producers of clean power

From China and the US to India and Germany, here we profile the top renewable energy countries around the world pioneering clean power

www.compelo.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources (China is just behind us as a % of renewable production against total energy production)

Three countries are leading the renewable energy revolution | World Economic Forum

On CFCs I believe the Chinese authorities in planning to deal with it as it looks absolutely bad on them and there is no economic benefit to the overall economy as it is for the domestic market rather than in competition with overseas companies. Also, it is an easy propaganda win in their trade war with the US.

Personally, I do what I can including having the majority of the back garden set over for wildlife rather than just straight low cut lawn.

saw an interesting program on telly about Chernobyl. areas nearby had amazed scientists as the wildlife there was flourishing - bears, wolves etc. cos humans weren’t around to interfere. China has purchased huge areas of land to clear and install solar panels, so a lot of the animals and plants will lose that habitat

 

[Peterdev]

I too reckon it’s better to do what’s within your own control than do nothing because others are not so vigilant. (Aren’t we good?)

But it is frustrating that China pays lip service to environmental issues and the greatest power in the world (that’s the USA Brexiteers, not us) doesn’t take the environment seriously either. World leadership is required, and this will more likely come from a more caring US president than a change in attitude in China.

Meanwhile, I’ll continue to recycle baked bean cans, carefully washing them first, of course.

Don’t waste water Pete. It’s a valuable resource

 

[Peterdev]

I do my bit too.
Even though I do many miles by car I use an economical petrol one.
I walk where possible.
It’s All the little things that make a difference, we won’t buy liquid soaps.
The amount of plastic water bottles created should be reduced considerably. What’s wrong with tap water anyway or filtering water?

 

[AbbeyOx]

what really annoys me is bloody packaging. we're encouraged to recycle and be aware of what we buy (which obviously is a good thing) but if the suppliers changed their methods it would cut out loads of waste. I know it's getting better but still some products are way over the top

 

[carefreeoufc]

Spend a few months of the year in Mumbai and Coimbatore with work each year and whilst I should do my bit here in the UK there’s no amount of paper straws that will make up for the amount of plastic and rubbish being burnt on the streets or the pollution from vehicles at rush hour in India.

Spent a few weeks in Texas earlier in April and again we talk about our tax on cars yet there’s 6 wheel Dodge Rams driving down the highway paying 2.38 a gallon (from what I remember).

I really should care particularly as we’re about to bring a child into the world but separating empty tins from plastic bags in Abingdon won’t make a blind bit of difference. Maybe that’s not the way to look at it but it’s pissing in the wind as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Ian]

Much of the environmental problem in China is the stuff they make for export to countries like the UK. So, it's not really due to the Chinese, but the British.

 

[chuckbert]

The interesting thing about China is that they have the greatest capacity to change. While democratic countries are letting their politicians play with climate change denial for short term economic reasons, meaning they aren’t doing what they could, China is making wholesale changes that could swing them rapidly to a climate friendly position. When they achieve that we will be in the s**t because we will have neither the economic nor moral advantage. For global issues like this large autocracies are much more effective at making the kinds of changes that individual interests find hard.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

The world population increases by 10,000 every hour (net).

There's literally nothing we can do as individuals while that remains a fact.

 

[Peterdev]

That may be so, but companies and individuals bear some responsibilities to do something rather than nothing

 

[AbbeyOx]

The world population increases by 10,000 every hour (net).

There's literally nothing we can do as individuals while that remains a fact.

that's the problem, no point me doing my bit cos nothing will change. as mentioned before change comes from within. small steps and all that

 

[Basham Wonderland]

that's the problem, no point me doing my bit cos nothing will change. as mentioned before change comes from within. small steps and all that

I do my bit, I just acknowledge that me doing my bit is pointless. Because there are 10,000 'me's' added to the world this hour. Most of them will want to fly one day. All of them will use plastic packaging, drive cars and eat meat.

And then there's the next hour!

Change from within doesn't work with a problem like this - we only have 10 years to fix the climate or we are all doomed. Even if the UK went carbon free (no flights, no cars, no electricity), that's 70,000,000 people of a 7,000,000,000 population. 1%.

Ultimately any individual changes are conscience-soothing methods only. That's not necessarily a problem - I do it too - but it really is all over unless there is some sort of mass extinction event or, more likely, a cheap alternative to fossil fuels can be found. Tidal energy, perhaps.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

You are right of course in that what recycling we do as individuals/families is a gnat's bite on an elephant's bum. But it IS better than doing nothing (even if only marginally) and I think, more importantly, it does keep the issue alive. Maybe people will become so used to (and expecting of) ecological issues that it becomes expected - and any government will simply have to apply similar logic or be regarded as failing in their duties. What the hell we do about numpties like Trump, the CEOs of corporations who are happy to pollute as long as it's 'somewhere else' or emerging economies who are burning fossil fuels as if there's no tomorrow (and there might not be!) in an effort to catch up, I have no idea.

 

[MarkG]

Some things I don't know.
How much of what goes in the recycling actually gets recycled and into what? apparently greasy pizza boxes aren't recyclable, Ao what happens to those if they are all in the same green bin as jars and cans?
Also what if jars and cans aren't clean?

Also I see that the plastic bag 'ban' reduces usage, and that plastic based wet-wipes clog up sewers.
But the latest fad is a ban on plastic straws and cotton buds and coffee cups. This all seems very minor when you see how much packaging there is in supermarkets which is a mix of hard and soft plastic, cardboard, laminates. Or if you buy anything electrical how much packaging there is with polystyrene which i think is unrecyclable.

 

[Marked Ox]

Some things I don't know.
How much of what goes in the recycling actually gets recycled and into what? apparently greasy pizza boxes aren't recyclable, Ao what happens to those if they are all in the same green bin as jars and cans?
Also what if jars and cans aren't clean?

Also I see that the plastic bag 'ban' reduces usage, and that plastic based wet-wipes clog up sewers.
But the latest fad is a ban on plastic straws and cotton buds and coffee cups. This all seems very minor when you see how much packaging there is in supermarkets which is a mix of hard and soft plastic, cardboard, laminates. Or if you buy anything electrical how much packaging there is with polystyrene which i think is unrecyclable.

A ban on disposable coffee cups isn't minor, we as a country go through many, many millions (if not billions) of them. We criticise the US (rightly in plenty of cases) but they have a far bigger usage of reusable cups that customers bring in to Coffee shops.

I do agree that packaging has to be reduced and recyclable materials found for the job. But I think it will be an incremental steps approach, and possibly the biggest steps will be if the EU takes measures like they did with the power usage by Vacuum Cleaners

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Personally, I think we are going to have to 'tech' our way out of the waste mess. Packaging is inevitable in a consumer society that doesn't grow it's own food (oh for the merry days of feudalism!) - but surely scientists must be able to either create a properly biodegradable plastic (i.e. one that doesn't just break down into very small bits of the same plastic!) or we are going to have to switch (back) to cardboard, paper and cellophane rather than plastic, packaging 'whotsits' made from potato starch rather than expanded polystyrene etc.

 

[SteMerritt]

Tesco could help by not selling things like peppers at a discount when packaged in a plastic bag in 3s, or putting bananas in plastic bags... Just little things like that will have a cumulative effect.

 

[Marked Ox]

Tesco could help by not selling things like peppers at a discount when packaged in a plastic bag in 3s, or putting bananas in plastic bags... Just little things like that will have a cumulative effect.

I see Morrison's are starting to introduce plastic free veg/fruit aisles after a trial. An easy win for the supermarkets.

 

[chuckbert]

Not doing anything individually is just like not voting because one vote doesn’t make a difference: it misses the point.

Interestingly regarding population, you could again say that China has contributed more to saving the earth than other countries through their child policy that ran for many years. Without it China might be >2M people by now. Another example of the kind of planet saving that is more possible with an authoritarian rather than libertarian society.

 

[Gary Baldi]

One is the dichotomy of potentially penalising people for not recycling (or whatever) to get people engaged, but then complaining about how many people genuinely struggle to make ends meet and have to use food banks. You have to be so careful about financial penalties that some are talking about, because you don't want to make the poor even poorer and increase fly tipping.

Even buying electric or hybrid cars, it's a nice thing for people who can afford to do it, but until they become a cheap commodity, the poor are further disenfranchised, especially with home charging and cost of replacing batteries. Sadly, there is not enough realistic real world thought about how to make our planet better to live in for all. Windmills won't save us

Further. China is living proof you can sign bits of paper, but actions speak louder than words. They, like many other nations, will do what is right for them over and above the planet.

 

[Marked Ox]

We could do with weaning people off bottled water as much as possible, it is unnecessary for the most part.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

One is the dichotomy of potentially penalising people for not recycling (or whatever) to get people engaged, but then complaining about how many people genuinely struggle to make ends meet and have to use food banks. You have to be so careful about financial penalties that some are talking about, because you don't want to make the poor even poorer and increase fly tipping.

Even buying electric or hybrid cars, it's a nice thing for people who can afford to do it, but until they become a cheap commodity, the poor are further disenfranchised, especially with home charging and cost of replacing batteries. Sadly, there is not enough realistic real world thought about how to make our planet better to live in for all. Windmills won't save us

Further. China is living proof you can sign bits of paper, but actions speak louder than words. They, like many other nations, will do what is right for them over and above the planet.

I don't understand some of this.

What exactly is the link between fining people for not recycling and those having to use food banks? Are you saying that people who do wrong (littering, driving without insurance, shoplifting etc) shouldn't be fined because it might tip them into poverty? If people fly tip then you can't let them off because they are poor - that way lies madness! You'd create a whole industry of people dumping crap all over the city streets and the countryside. If you don't want to be fined, just don't be a pillock. People know they should be recycling, if they are too bone idle to put a bit of paper in a different bin than their potato peelings then they need to be taught different.

I agree that electric cars are expensive. But as yet there is no real financial penalty for having an older petrol car - by the time there is, electric cars will be available second hand. Windmills won't save us. But they will help. Add in hydro-electric, solar, tidal and geothermal and that might make a very large difference.

 

[Essexyellows]

This is what irks me....... we are exporting our problem/rubbish to other countries. https://www.ft.com/content/b6bd62e0-811d-11e9-9935-ad75bb96c849

Surely we should have recycling "rules" that dissuade producers from using excess packaging, are the same across the country and be recycling/disposing of our rubbish here?