Game of Thrones - WARNING, CONTAINS SPOILERS

[Gary Baldi]

The final series started last night - some of us will have watched it already, while other haven't. And others won't care (but still read the thread and complain about it )

Spoiler: Spoiler from last night

The final reveal of the Bastard Jon Snow's parentage was made at the end. The usual nudity, game playing, etc. Oh and kid was speared to a wall. As you do.

If you read a Guardian review who intimated nothing happened, lots did. They are seemingly too thick to understand it.

 

[AbbeyOx]

never seen it but that blonde in the trailer for it looks hot. is it like Lord of the rings but with more dragons?

 

[Gary Baldi]

She's from Oxford was well, so a local. It's 15th century Tudor politics with tits and dragons, basically.

 

[Sarge]

My son in law is in episode 3 of the new series..... the biggest ever battle scene in the history of cinema !.... filming wasnt too far from where he lives in NI....hes an extra in the battle scenes,(one of the whites/army of the dead, former wildling) hes under lots of make up plus cgi too, but, is on screen, in semi close up action,for about 12 seconds

 

[Northstandboy]

Please do not edit out the Spoiler coding in quotes.

 

[tonyw]

Was a classic GoT season opener - spent most of the time establishing where all the key pieces were, and setting up the board for things to kick off big time in the next couple of episodes (given that Episode 3 has the longest run-time, coupled with Sarge's post above, seems like that's going to be the stage for Living vs. Dead Round 1).

And got a few things out of the way that needed to happen, and were important character pay-offs, but were likely to get in the way of the big upcoming story points:

Spoiler

For example, Theon rescuing his sister; Arya reuniting with Jon and Gendry and the Hound; Jon reuniting with Bran; Sansa reuniting with Tyrion etc. etc.

My thoughts:

Spoiler

They are really setting Dany up for a fall - she is becoming more and more tyrannical, and less and less sympathetic as the episodes go by. Her little smirk when all the Northerners acted in terror when her dragons flew over was akin to begging for a horrific death scene.

As such, Sam's revelation to Jon at the end of the episode was big in its substance - although we knew that was coming - but it was also big in the way that Sam framed it. "You gave up a crown to save your people. Would she do the same?". Given what we've seen so far, I think we can be pretty confident the answer is no. What I'm not certain about - and this is really the key appeal of this show - is whether the show is indeed going to punish her for being an egotistical tyrant, or instead reward her for it and punish Jon for being honorable and noble to a fault (as it did once before, and as it did to Ned & Robb). Or maybe punish them both, and leave someone else entirely sitting on the throne at the end.

Also, I still love Euron Greyjoy. His predecessors in the "Biggest psychopath in Westeros" stakes, Joffrey & Ramsey, were just insufferably smug and humourless. Euron plays it with swagger and giggles. I'm sure a grizzly end awaits, but for the time being I'm enjoying his work!

 

[Gary Baldi]

Spoiler: Just in case

The moment I had earlier when I realised a Song of Ice and Fire is basically a story about Jon Snow, with a load of added extras.

As for the time that Dany realises she is no longer the only Targ and she's been boffing her nephew, who is the rightful king that no one knew about. And was told this news by the son of the father who she petulantly burnt to a crisp One hell of an ego fall. She had to realise something was up when the dragon let Jon ride him and smirked when they kissed.

It will be interesting to see what the weapon Arya designed is used for.

As aside, you can where Richard Dormer took that beard to after working on GoT.

 

[tonyw]

Have to confess to be slightly disappointed by Season 8, Episode 2 last night:

Spoiler

I was absolutely happy to have one episode to open the season that was light on action, and heavy on reunions and meaningful conversations. But to have two - when there's now only four episodes left to round out the story - feels a little self-indulgent. Not sure I really needed to spend more time on the likes of Grey Worm/Missandei, The Hound/Beric or the Mormont cousins bickering. And did Arya & Gendry really need two scenes of bad flirting before getting it on?
They could've combined Episodes 1&2 into a more streamlined, maybe 90 minute episode and then we could have had the biggest battle ever on our screens already...….

But next week is clearly going to be turned up to 11. With many, many characters' stories coming to an end.

I think Jon and Dany are safe (for now), and Jaime surely has a final reckoning to come with Cersei (and if The Hound doesn't get his Cleganebowl, there's going to be a lot of angry nerds...…).

But literally everyone else would now seem to be expendable and at risk. My top three, most likely to bite it next week:
1) Theon. Not only redeemed and forgiven, but volunteering for the most dangerous duty. He's toast.
2) Brienne. Got her greatest wish, and moment of joy. On the front lines now with little more to achieve. Hard to see her surviving that.
3) Grey Worm. If you're going into a massive tv/movie battle, the last thing you want to be doing is making plans for the future with your beloved. That's just asking for it.

And finally - how thick are our collective heroes? You're fighting an army who's greatest power is the ability to raise the dead, and you decide the safest place to send your loved ones for protection is...….a crypt? I hope they feel suitably chastened when they all get bludgeoned to death by a headless Sean Bean......

 

[Sarge]

Shall be watching episodes 1 and 2 series 8 later this evening ...piggybacking my youngest sons Nowtv pass

 

[holdsteady]

It felt like a final reunion this episode, I reckon we could be in for a big cull of characters before the final episodes narrow in focus. A strange episode but it is a show that has fallen a long way in quality so it’s nice to be at the end now, I watched the battle of the bastards the other day which at least got me excited for the battle scenes to come, other than that I am just watching to see how it turns out.

 

[mooro]

It felt like a final reunion this episode, I reckon we could be in for a big cull of characters before the final episodes narrow in focus. A strange episode but it is a show that has fallen a long way in quality so it’s nice to be at the end now, I watched the battle of the bastards the other day which at least got me excited for the battle scenes to come, other than that I am just watching to see how it turns out.

Why were you watching Swindon play Luton??

 

[holdsteady]

Why were you watching Swindon play Luton??

I doubt that fixture will be played for a long time with how well the scum are settling into their natural division again.

 

[tonyw]

It felt like a final reunion this episode, I reckon we could be in for a big cull of characters before the final episodes narrow in focus. A strange episode but it is a show that has fallen a long way in quality so it’s nice to be at the end now, I watched the battle of the bastards the other day which at least got me excited for the battle scenes to come, other than that I am just watching to see how it turns out.

Have to agree - been re-watching Season 2, and although there's a few oddball moments and most of Dany's arc is tedious, for the most part it's gripping intrigue and unpredictable thrills. The last couple of seasons, by contrast, have been decidedly short on the politics and backstabbing and shocks, and heavy on fan service and big budget battles.

Didn't help that they killed off most of the best actors as well (Charles Dance, Diana Rigg, Stephen Dillane, Michelle Fairly etc. etc.).

Still, on the plus side - we've four episodes to go, and I still couldn't tell you that I know how it's going to end. So respect is due for that!

 

[Gary Baldi]

Have to confess to be slightly disappointed by Season 8, Episode 2 last night:

Spoiler

I was absolutely happy to have one episode to open the season that was light on action, and heavy on reunions and meaningful conversations. But to have two - when there's now only four episodes left to round out the story - feels a little self-indulgent. Not sure I really needed to spend more time on the likes of Grey Worm/Missandei, The Hound/Beric or the Mormont cousins bickering. And did Arya & Gendry really need two scenes of bad flirting before getting it on?
They could've combined Episodes 1&2 into a more streamlined, maybe 90 minute episode and then we could have had the biggest battle ever on our screens already...….

But next week is clearly going to be turned up to 11. With many, many characters' stories coming to an end.

I think Jon and Dany are safe (for now), and Jaime surely has a final reckoning to come with Cersei (and if The Hound doesn't get his Cleganebowl, there's going to be a lot of angry nerds...…).

But literally everyone else would now seem to be expendable and at risk. My top three, most likely to bite it next week:
1) Theon. Not only redeemed and forgiven, but volunteering for the most dangerous duty. He's toast.
2) Brienne. Got her greatest wish, and moment of joy. On the front lines now with little more to achieve. Hard to see her surviving that.
3) Grey Worm. If you're going into a massive tv/movie battle, the last thing you want to be doing is making plans for the future with your beloved. That's just asking for it.

And finally - how thick are our collective heroes? You're fighting an army who's greatest power is the ability to raise the dead, and you decide the safest place to send your loved ones for protection is...….a crypt? I hope they feel suitably chastened when they all get bludgeoned to death by a headless Sean Bean......

Spoiler: Spoilerish

It felt like the episode was the moment before you reach the top of a roller-coaster, everything is slowed down, there is a moment of calm, you think it won't be bad but you're anticipating what's next. And then you reach the top and BAM, you're on a ride you can't get out of. The bodycount next week will be severe I feel, but in ways none of us will think. We all think Bran knows everything, but maybe he is wrong about the Nights King and his whereabouts? Is it a double feint?

My gut feeling is one of Dany and Aegon Jon won't make it through next week - it would be a classic TV thing of leaving it half done for fans to speculate.

Spoiler: Spoilerish Next Week

It looks like battle scene next week is single lump of goodness at 40 minutes without break so that battle should be epic. The longest single scene battle ever recorded on TV apparently

I did find Gendry and Arya's sex scene a bit WTF, why was that put in?

 

[Northstandboy]

Spoiler: Spoiler

Lots of thoughts that the ending with the white walkers did not show the night king or dragon, and that they have gone straight to Kings Landing

 

[tonyw]

Spoiler: Spoiler

Lots of thoughts that the ending with the white walkers did not show the night king or dragon, and that they have gone straight to Kings Landing

Spoiler

I read that too - they definitely showed the Night King in some of the trailers standing around in the snow - so if that's true, it's a big piece of misdirection. But nothing that GoT hasn't done before!

Spoiler: Spoilerish

It felt like the episode was the moment before you reach the top of a roller-coaster, everything is slowed down, there is a moment of calm, you think it won't be bad but you're anticipating what's next. And then you reach the top and BAM, you're on a ride you can't get out of. The bodycount next week will be severe I feel, but in ways none of us will think. We all think Bran knows everything, but maybe he is wrong about the Nights King and his whereabouts? Is it a double feint?

My gut feeling is one of Dany and Aegon Jon won't make it through next week - it would be a classic TV thing of leaving it half done for fans to speculate.

Spoiler: Spoilerish Next Week

It looks like battle scene next week is single lump of goodness at 40 minutes without break so that battle should be epic. The longest single scene battle ever recorded on TV apparently

I did find Gendry and Arya's sex scene a bit WTF, why was that put in?

Spoiler

We'll see - but my feeling is that it would detract from the central conflict if they killed one of Dany and Jon off in Episode 3.
Jon has dug himself into this nigh-on impossible position.....having bent the knee, despite the protests of all of his northern compatriots, to someone who he loves but has now discovered is behind him in the line of succession (and his aunt)….and to relieve him of that moral quandary and big decision by killing one of them off now would be disappointing.
I still expect one, or maybe both, of them to die - but not until Episode 6. And it's going to be tragic with a big T.

If they go for a 'big' death (as opposed to a second tier character - all of whom are clearly at risk), I suspect it's going to be Arya. Or just possibly Sansa. Maybe even Tyrion.

 

[Sarge]

It felt like a final reunion this episode, I reckon we could be in for a big cull of characters before the final episodes narrow in focus. A strange episode but it is a show that has fallen a long way in quality so it’s nice to be at the end now, I watched the battle of the bastards the other day which at least got me excited for the battle scenes to come, other than that I am just watching to see how it turns out.

Agree, first 2 episodes s8 reaquainting with characters ready to be killed off ...expecting a few more twists n turns before the end of episode 6

 

[tonyw]

It felt like a final reunion this episode, I reckon we could be in for a big cull of characters before the final episodes narrow in focus. A strange episode but it is a show that has fallen a long way in quality so it’s nice to be at the end now, I watched the battle of the bastards the other day which at least got me excited for the battle scenes to come, other than that I am just watching to see how it turns out.

Saw this article that I think sums up the current problems with the show really well - http://collider.com/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-2-problems/#poster

The White Walkers have, to a large extent, ruined the show because they're black (or white, take your pick) in a show where almost everyone was some shade of grey, and everyone (except Cersei) has had to come together to oppose them.

"When the Battle of Winterfell arrives, we will all be very sad. We will mourn the loss of characters we like. But right now, let’s take a moment to mourn the show that has been lost in favor of good feelings. We’ve lost complexity to the politics and ambiguity to the character’s actions. You don’t need to worry whether or not Arya’s fixation on murder has darkened her soul. She has a new weapon and she’s getting laid! You don’t need to worry if there’s a split coming between Daenerys and Tyrion. She had a nice chat with Jorah! All you need to worry about is who lives and who dies. Maybe after the Battle of Winterfell, a more interesting show will come back from the dead."

 

[Gary Baldi]

I can't believe the show will be that basic as it ends, but they basically avoided saying why the White Walkers were even marching south until the last episode, so anything is possible. I almost wondered if it was for gits and shiggles at one point. And we have to believe someone who knows everything saying from the past, present and future in Bran knows nothing. Something is slightly off.

In some respects, it would make sense that the Battle of Winterfell is a side show to allow the Night King to go down to Kings Landing, where the survivors of Winerfell then battle to gain control of the Iron Throne. Or some such nonsense

 

[holdsteady]

Saw this article that I think sums up the current problems with the show really well - http://collider.com/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-2-problems/#poster

The White Walkers have, to a large extent, ruined the show because they're black (or white, take your pick) in a show where almost everyone was some shade of grey, and everyone (except Cersei) has had to come together to oppose them.

"When the Battle of Winterfell arrives, we will all be very sad. We will mourn the loss of characters we like. But right now, let’s take a moment to mourn the show that has been lost in favor of good feelings. We’ve lost complexity to the politics and ambiguity to the character’s actions. You don’t need to worry whether or not Arya’s fixation on murder has darkened her soul. She has a new weapon and she’s getting laid! You don’t need to worry if there’s a split coming between Daenerys and Tyrion. She had a nice chat with Jorah! All you need to worry about is who lives and who dies. Maybe after the Battle of Winterfell, a more interesting show will come back from the dead."

I think that’s the problem, the best part of the show was the human element, the battle for Westeros between the various players. It never needed the white walkers (could of been replaced by the wildlings, the interaction between them and the nights watch was always more interesting and obviously plausible) or the dragons (easily replaceable by the Dothraki/technology of a more advanced Essos/mercenaries etc), 5 or 6 quality seasons of backstabbing, politics and warfare would of been more achievable and satisfactory, but it is what it is and I am still interested to see how it turns out.

The tv show producers have been stuck with ending to ambitious and sprawling a story by GRR Martin though, I doubt he will ever finish the books so I suppose it’s good that everyone will get an ending of sorts.

 

[Northstandboy]

I can't believe the show will be that basic as it ends, but they basically avoided saying why the White Walkers were even marching south until the last episode, so anything is possible. I almost wondered if it was for gits and shiggles at one point. And we have to believe someone who knows everything saying from the past, present and future in Bran knows nothing. Something is slightly off.

In some respects, it would make sense that the Battle of Winterfell is a side show to allow the Night King to go down to Kings Landing, where the survivors of Winerfell then battle to gain control of the Iron Throne. Or some such nonsense

Why are they walking South?

 

[Gary Baldi]

Why are they walking South?

To kill the Three Eyed Raven so that his memories are forever gone (or something like that).

 

[Sarge]

Why are they walking South?

Winter is coming

 

[Gary Baldi]

Spoiler: Nothing to see here

Holy moly, what a claustrophobic and intense episode that was. I know some people didn't like how the battle was so messy and confusing, but it was sooooo much better than some of the linear battles we see as it would replicate how it happened. Some very powerful iconography in there.

Shorter thoughts:
The Nights king should have been present more in earlier seasons - that story always felt slightly undercooked for how big it could be.
The Nights King look of "I can do this ish all day" was a nice touch
Where did all those Crows go when Bran sent them off? What were they up to?
I'm kind of glad more people survived than we thought. I'm glad Lyanna Mormont died, the act tired on me.
Will we get Clegane Bowl?
The Dothraki swords on fire thing was a clever move

 

[tonyw]

Spoiler

So, on the one hand, it was an epic episode. Just a spectacular, exhilarating thrill ride. And 80 minutes in, I still wasn't sure how they were going to get out of it.....figured that Bran had some clever trick up his sleeve; but in the end, their resolution was great and gave purpose to Arya's whole arc - seven seasons of training, of one form or another, turned her into precisely the killing machine she needed to be to save the world (whilst Jon and Dany and all the other heroes floundered).

On the other hand, there's this nagging feeling in my head - which started last season - that the show has lost its nerve. It's still delivering bigger, more impressive set pieces than any other TV show ever has......but it's no longer ripping out your heart like it used to.

There were plenty of deaths last night, but they were all either very minor characters in which we were little invested (Edd, little Mormont) or they were significant, supporting players whose redemptive arcs were complete (Theon, Jorah, Beric, Melisandre). All of them had reached a logical end to their journeys and their deaths were noble and gave them closure. The show used to delight in wiping its characters out mid-arc, which brought some real tragedy to the show. Tragedy that it's now mostly given up in favour of spectacle.

Still - three more episodes, and plenty more opportunities to bring that back. I remain convinced that either Jon or Dany or possible both is going to go...…..

 

[Gary Baldi]

Spoiler

So, on the one hand, it was an epic episode. Just a spectacular, exhilarating thrill ride. And 80 minutes in, I still wasn't sure how they were going to get out of it.....figured that Bran had some clever trick up his sleeve; but in the end, their resolution was great and gave purpose to Arya's whole arc - seven seasons of training, of one form or another, turned her into precisely the killing machine she needed to be to save the world (whilst Jon and Dany and all the other heroes floundered).

On the other hand, there's this nagging feeling in my head - which started last season - that the show has lost its nerve. It's still delivering bigger, more impressive set pieces than any other TV show ever has......but it's no longer ripping out your heart like it used to.

There were plenty of deaths last night, but they were all either very minor characters in which we were little invested (Edd, little Mormont) or they were significant, supporting players whose redemptive arcs were complete (Theon, Jorah, Beric, Melisandre). All of them had reached a logical end to their journeys and their deaths were noble and gave them closure. The show used to delight in wiping its characters out mid-arc, which brought some real tragedy to the show. Tragedy that it's now mostly given up in favour of spectacle.

Still - three more episodes, and plenty more opportunities to bring that back. I remain convinced that either Jon or Dany or possible both is going to go...…..

It's almost like when they didn't have GRRM cut throat material to rely on, they've demurred on the deaths. There are certain well liked mid level characters that ultimately wouldn't be missed if they had died. Won't name them, but one more prominent name would have worked and rounded off their journey nicely.

But it's really nit picking on what has been a cleverly shot and planned series. In comparison with the listless nature of programs like the Walking Dead, GoT has been peerless over 8 seasons

 

[Robie]

I don't think its a spoiler to say that episode was epic!

Just fantastic, I loved all of it. Best bit of television I have watched in ages.

 

[tonyw]

It's almost like when they didn't have GRRM cut throat material to rely on, they've demurred on the deaths.

Agree - the last truly great GoT death was Hodor.....which was after the end of the current books, but apparently came directly from the mind of GRRM.

Since then, they've gotten a bit timid......and I think the show is more conventional as a result.

 

[Sarge]

I shall be catching up with s8 ep3 tomorrow evening ....and am looking forward to trying to spot my son in law in his 18second cameo in one of the battle scenes as well

 

[ljs]

I shall be catching up with s8 ep3 tomorrow evening ....and am looking forward to trying to spot my son in law in his 18second cameo in one of the battle scenes as well

Not sure you'll be able to see him amongst all the smoke/dust, that seemed to blot out half the action. It wasnt a great episode in my view.