Forward line

[Foley]

But if you agree players are needed, why are you intimating that Hall etc could somehow fit in. Do you you honestly see them scoring more than a handful between them??

Do you not?
Henry was played out wide for a lot if last season. He scored 12 goals. Robbie Hall I reckon would get 10 goals if he played most of the season. Whyte, Carruthers and Mackie will score a few
Everybody agrees that we need a striker upfront. But those playing behind then have quite a few goals in them.

 

[Foley]

At present, I’d say the squad is not balanced.

We had two major issues last season.

The lack of a genuine ‘1’ up top.

And a lack of pace.

Have those issues been solved from what we’ve seen ore-season? No.

Instead we seem to have a plethora of players who can play in behind Obika - come on, its grim that with a week to go he is our best option - when that is where our one standout, top drawer outfield man plays. James Henry.

There is also the not insignificant issue of replacing Ledson. This rather significant hole seems to have been forgotten about by most. No one ever mentions it!

No doubt the three signings Kr is about to make are aimed at solving the 2 major issues of last season and the one created by a departure.

So we are not ready in the least in terms of personnel. It seems to hAve been an infuriating window for many clubs. Barnsley made their first signing this week!! So at least many are in the same boat.

It may mean that we have a bit of a sluggish start. So KR deserves time and patience. Just like last season, then, we’ll have an indication of how good we are post Xmas.

I am not sure that I agree re the pace. Whyte is very quick. Hall when fit is pretty quick. Then there is Napa.
There are two critical positions to fill as you suggest being Lessons replacement and the main striker.

 

[Marked Ox]

Do you not?
Henry was played out wide for a lot if last season. He scored 12 goals. Robbie Hall I reckon would get 10 goals if he played most of the season. Whyte, Carruthers and Mackie will score a few
Everybody agrees that we need a striker upfront. But those playing behind then have quite a few goals in them.

Indeed, we scored 78 goals* last season and our strikers (or played some games in that position) of Gino, Thomas, Obika and Mehmeti only scored 24 between them.

 

[oufcbenjyp]

It is a bit of a concern to say the least that Obika is our 1 up top because the player I saw last season didn't win many headers, looked sluggish and struggled to score goals. Yes, his preseason has been impressive and I really hope he carries his good form through. By the sound of it Sam Smith is the man and i will rest a little easier knowing that we have at least one more option available to us if/when we sign him. Fingers crossed that all goes through as expected.

 

[Deleted member 222]

The way we play then people need to get the idea of only having 1 player up front out of their heads. When we attack teams we do it with 4 or 5 players and over load their defence. We attack by playing it out wide and trying to get as many bodies into the box as possible or following up on the edge for anything that comes out.

Yes we have 1 central vocal point that we can play into but then you then have players like Hall, Henry, Carruthers making runs beyond him to break the lines.

 

[Bigfella72]

The way we play then people need to get the idea of only having 1 player up front out of their heads. When we attack teams we do it with 4 or 5 players and over load their defence. We attack by playing it out wide and trying to get as many bodies into the box as possible or following up on the edge for anything that comes out.

Yes we have 1 central vocal point that we can play into but then you then have players like Hall, Henry, Carruthers making runs beyond him to break the lines.

Some people don’t have the brain power! ?

 

[Lescottsforehead]

Your answer is moronic as unfortunately, it was meant as dabigfella spotted it. One forward doesn’t make a front line. But hey don’t let that get in the way of childish abuse. Idiot

mentions childish abuse then called someone an idiot.... unreal

 

[spmox]

Yes. Thank you.
Football has moved on from Toshack and Keegan being the only option.

 

[Upthecowboys]

Obika, Mackie, Hall average 20-30 games a season each, depending on what seasons you pick (i.e. that is generous). So assume they play 25 leagues game each then those 3 really equal 1.5 players this year - based on a 50-55 game season. My concern is not over the quality, but the fact that we are keeping our fingers crossed that a few of the players who have in recent seasons not played 30 games+ can actually make it through a full season. If it works then great.

To say we only need 1 more out and out striker is silly in my eyes. Sam Smith looks a good player, but he is a youngster and not done a full season.

Also look forward to the end of next season, we're going to have another significant turnover of players and we'll be building again. Most of the loans are likely to move on, those players in their final year (if still here) will be moving on.

Karacan looks good on paper (KR clearly is keen), lets sign him on a 2 year deal as an experienced player without the expectation we'll sell him on. Would love to see us invest in a permanent signing up top along with Sam Smith with an option to buy him.

Quite happy to eat my words, but at the moment it does not seem that Tiger is able to provide KR with the funds needed to give us a budget that is top 6 competitive. I've got no issues if that is the case, and I expect any decent manager to punch above their proverbial budget. But as an owner when you make big statements when you take over, then after a few months you need to be able to show how you have backed up your words. It is fair to say that KR over the last few weeks has gradually reduced the number of players he after, but surely we need at least another 3.

Finally, can we assume that Hall and Nelson have not signed contract extensions? It has gone quiet on that front, so assume they will see their contracts out and move on in Jan or at the end of the season? If I've missed those contract extensions then please post on here confirmation!

 

[LondonRoader]

It is a bit of a concern to say the least that Obika is our 1 up top because the player I saw last season didn't win many headers, looked sluggish and struggled to score goals. Yes, his preseason has been impressive and I really hope he carries his good form through. By the sound of it Sam Smith is the man and i will rest a little easier knowing that we have at least one more option available to us if/when we sign him. Fingers crossed that all goes through as expected.

Jamie Mackie

 

[BigCrompy]

Four?! For a system which only plays one like striker? Does that mean we need 8 centre backs?!

Read it again.

7 subs.

46 game season before you even consider cups.

May need to go to 2 or even 3 up to change a game.

One will get injured, one will lose form.

No ability to replenish squad until January.

We look very, very bare at present.

Of the four I propose, one may be Owen James (and Obika, Mackie).

But we really do need one more.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Jamie Mackie

Generally a wide player, who has not scored much (or managed to play consistently) in recent years. Presuming that putting him central will magically turn him into a ball-holding, goals scoring, lone striker seems 'optimistic' to me.

 

[spmox]

Obika, Mackie, Hall average 20-30 games a season each, depending on what seasons you pick (i.e. that is generous). So assume they play 25 leagues game each then those 3 really equal 1.5 players this year - based on a 50-55 game season. My concern is not over the quality, but the fact that we are keeping our fingers crossed that a few of the players who have in recent seasons not played 30 games+ can actually make it through a full season. If it works then great.

To say we only need 1 more out and out striker is silly in my eyes. Sam Smith looks a good player, but he is a youngster and not done a full season.

Also look forward to the end of next season, we're going to have another significant turnover of players and we'll be building again. Most of the loans are likely to move on, those players in their final year (if still here) will be moving on.

Karacan looks good on paper (KR clearly is keen), lets sign him on a 2 year deal as an experienced player without the expectation we'll sell him on. Would love to see us invest in a permanent signing up top along with Sam Smith with an option to buy him.

Quite happy to eat my words, but at the moment it does not seem that Tiger is able to provide KR with the funds needed to give us a budget that is top 6 competitive. I've got no issues if that is the case, and I expect any decent manager to punch above their proverbial budget. But as an owner when you make big statements when you take over, then after a few months you need to be able to show how you have backed up your words. It is fair to say that KR over the last few weeks has gradually reduced the number of players he after, but surely we need at least another 3.

Finally, can we assume that Hall and Nelson have not signed contract extensions? It has gone quiet on that front, so assume they will see their contracts out and move on in Jan or at the end of the season? If I've missed those contract extensions then please post on here confirmation!

Really good analysis. On the cautious side, but a lot to think about there and not a lot to argue with!
I'm very ok with playing 4231 but agree that if one of Obika and (say) Sam Smith was injured and couldn't start, then we wouldn't have a replacement on the bench to play the most advanced forward.

As others have pointed out we have a good selection of other forward players who will play in the 3 behind.

On this "they're not forwards because they don't constantly play at the very top of the pitch" idea.... then it would probably come as a surprise to the likes of Joey B, Rosie and Chrissy A, that they were not forwards because they were in the 4 and not the 2 in the good old 442 days.

As tactics and formations have evolved the likes of Mickey Lewis, Smudger Smith, Martin Gray or more recently Mclaren, have changed from just being general midfielders to specialist screening / breaking up play defensive midfielders in the 2 in 4231 and the 3 ahead are inside forwards (in old money) / wingers.

As said earlier I think this formation helps you defend and attack in good numbers.

But happy to agree we probably need 3 players to cover the most advanced 1 and about 5 to cover the 3 behind.

Your final point about Hall and Nelson is concerning and I don't think there has been any news about them.

 

[spmox]

The way we play then people need to get the idea of only having 1 player up front out of their heads. When we attack teams we do it with 4 or 5 players and over load their defence. We attack by playing it out wide and trying to get as many bodies into the box as possible or following up on the edge for anything that comes out.

Yes we have 1 central vocal point that we can play into but then you then have players like Hall, Henry, Carruthers making runs beyond him to break the lines.

Exactly!

 

[Shaun Rice]

Forgetting the squad outside the first 11. I’m not convinced we’re that much better than we were at the end of last season.
In defence the full backs that have come in seem okay and we’ll ship less goals with Nelson back. Also I think Ricardo was a bit of a liability too (sorry, but it’s true).
In midfield Samir seems similar to Ledson in many ways. He’s better on the ball and perhaps going forward. I’m not sure what we do when his cards tot up looking at his tackling. Obviously having Hall back is a big plus. None of the new attacking midfield players have made me think we have enough to be pushing for promotion. To be fair to Browne I’ve not seen him play yet. I think fans expecting 2 strikers are spot on. Obika has done well but will defenders be quaking in their boots at the site of our goal machine? I very much doubt it.

 

[windmill]

Really good analysis. On the cautious side, but a lot to think about there and not a lot to argue with!
I'm very ok with playing 4231 but agree that if one of Obika and (say) Sam Smith was injured and couldn't start, then we wouldn't have a replacement on the bench to play the most advanced forward.

As others have pointed out we have a good selection of other forward players who will play in the 3 behind.

On this "they're not forwards because they don't constantly play at the very top of the pitch" idea.... then it would probably come as a surprise to the likes of Joey B, Rosie and Chrissy A, that they were not forwards because they were in the 4 and not the 2 in the good old 442 days.

As tactics and formations have evolved the likes of Mickey Lewis, Smudger Smith, Martin Gray or more recently Mclaren, have changed from just being general midfielders to specialist screening / breaking up play defensive midfielders in the 2 in 4231 and the 3 ahead are inside forwards (in old money) / wingers.

As said earlier I think this formation helps you defend and attack in good numbers.

But happy to agree we probably need 3 players to cover the most advanced 1 and about 5 to cover the 3 behind.

Your final point about Hall and Nelson is concerning and I don't think there has been any news about them.

Hall has his fair share of injuries. I would not like to commit to a long contract. Nelson............well thats another matter entirely.

 

[tatabanya]

Forgetting the squad outside the first 11. I’m not convinced we’re that much better than we were at the end of last season.
In defence the full backs that have come in seem okay and we’ll ship less goals with Nelson back. Also I think Ricardo was a bit of a liability too (sorry, but it’s true).
In midfield Samir seems similar to Ledson in many ways. He’s better on the ball and perhaps going forward. I’m not sure what we do when his cards tot up looking at his tackling. Obviously having Hall back is a big plus. None of the new attacking midfield players have made me think we have enough to be pushing for promotion. To be fair to Browne I’ve not seen him play yet. I think fans expecting 2 strikers are spot on. Obika has done well but will defenders be quaking in their boots at the site of our goal machine? I very much doubt it.

Robinson has said that he sees Carruthers as a wide player, as he has been used in the past couple of friendlies, so not sure about the Ledson comparison.

At least one midfielder will be coming in alongside Brannigan.

 

[Millman]

I don't buy this we play one up top so we don't need many strikers. If that genuinely is the case you have very little tactical flexibility. I am sure as others adapt to our system then this could be a major liability. A good squad needs a number of striking options. This allows the manager to mix it up if we a re struggling for goals in a game. Currently we it seems we have the ability to change the midfield around a lot but not a lot up front, we are fairly locked into a system.

Upthecowboys post accurately sums the situation up for me. Putting all our faith on some injury prone players and a striker who is both injury prone and goes missing in games (heck I am surprised he is even still here after last season), seems to me to be crazy. I am sure KR is not happy with the situation either. The next 3 signings are critical.

I also agree about our budget we seem to be building far more on the Shrewsbury model of loaning our best players and relying on cheaper players and youngsters for the rest. Its not a problem and as we have seen can work very well, but as has been mentioned its not what we were told we were getting.

For me its been a pretty poor off season. We have lost a couple of players we could have done with keeping, we have taken a age to put he squad together, and now for me it is highly dependant on loans andstill have an incomplete strike force. The market has become insane with all teams struggling to get any players to sign. Its bound to impact the quality of the leagues for the opening month or so, lets hope the impact on us is short.

 

[Dubai Yellow]

And that’s exactly it, we are not in a unique situation here it’s happening to pretty much every team, we are all the in the same boat.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

The following players can play in the 3 behind a striker:

Hall
Henry
Carruthers
Browne
Napa
Whyte
Mackie

So that's seven for three spots. I would take a guess that Mackie is considered backup for the lone striker role as well as being able to play in that three, meaning one more striker would put them and Obika in direct competition for the lone role with Mackie able to play it if need be. Thus creating a third option which still leaves six vying for spots in the three. Then you have the likes of Noel-Williams and Taverner who could sit on the bench if a body is needed.

With that in mind I'm not sure two strikers is likely in terms of further additions.