Forward line

ZeroTheHero said:
Generally a wide player, who has not scored much (or managed to play consistently) in recent years. Presuming that putting him central will magically turn him into a ball-holding, goals scoring, lone striker seems 'optimistic' to me.
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So you think we will get 2 quality center forwards in by the deadline, I like your optimism.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
The following players can play in the 3 behind a striker:

Hall
Henry
Carruthers
Browne
Napa
Whyte
Mackie

So that's seven for three spots. I would take a guess that Mackie is considered backup for the lone striker role as well as being able to play in that three, meaning one more striker would put them and Obika in direct competition for the lone role with Mackie able to play it if need be. Thus creating a third option which still leaves six vying for spots in the three. Then you have the likes of Noel-Williams and Taverner who could sit on the bench if a body is needed.

With that in mind I'm not sure two strikers is likely in terms of further additions.
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Still need a striker (s)
 
LondonRoader said:
So you think we will get 2 quality center forwards in by the deadline, I like your optimism.
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No - I am not at all sure we will. But I am also not convinced that putting Mackie centrally (which might well be the intention) is anything more than a bit of a punt. Round holes, square pegs etc!
 
It will be interesting to see where Mackie is used. Having seen his cameo against Leeds, I'd say we may see him play the lone striker role. He's obviously got a nice touch and has the tricks of the trade, but he's desperately short of pace and definitely doesn't look like he can beat a man.

Some will hate the comparison, but he looked quite a lot like Kitson did when he was here. I'm just hoping he plays with a lot more desire and commitment. If he does, I'm sure he'll be a useful asset.
 
Kitson was great to begin with, and I'd be happy if Mackie replicated those first couple of months. The problem was that Kitson started coming deeper and deeper until he was almost sat in front of the back 4. He then pretty much gave up and became a waste of a shirt.

I think the big difference will be that Mackie is going to be paid on appearances and performances so his desire should be a lot better.
 
In part, Kitson's issue was the lack of talent deeper and a manager telling to get further up the pitch. Thankfully this team won't have that issue
 
Gary Baldi said:
In part, Kitson's issue was the lack of talent deeper and a manager telling to get further up the pitch. Thankfully this team won't have that issue
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Imo Kitson just didn't give a sh*t except receiving his pay cheque. He had talent but no professional pride. I get the impression Jamie Mackie maybe has slightly less talent but actually cares so makes the most of his talent so polar opposites.
 
Scotchegg said:
Kitson was great to begin with, and I'd be happy if Mackie replicated those first couple of months. The problem was that Kitson started coming deeper and deeper until he was almost sat in front of the back 4. He then pretty much gave up and became a waste of a shirt.

I think the big difference will be that Mackie is going to be paid on appearances and performances so his desire should be a lot better.
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Agreed. As long as he's given a role (personally I think that should be as the lone striker or number 10) and sticks to it, he'll be a good player to have.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
The following players can play in the 3 behind a striker:

Hall
Henry
Carruthers
Browne
Napa
Whyte
Mackie

So that's seven for three spots. I would take a guess that Mackie is considered backup for the lone striker role as well as being able to play in that three, meaning one more striker would put them and Obika in direct competition for the lone role with Mackie able to play it if need be. Thus creating a third option which still leaves six vying for spots in the three. Then you have the likes of Noel-Williams and Taverner who could sit on the bench if a body is needed.

With that in mind I'm not sure two strikers is likely in terms of further additions.
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Exactly right, I think. Mackie hasn’t been brought in to play as one of three behind the striker. We have enough of those.
 
Marked Ox said:
Imo Kitson just didn't give a sh*t except receiving his pay cheque. He had talent but no professional pride. I get the impression Jamie Mackie maybe has slightly less talent but actually cares so makes the most of his talent so polar opposites.
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I suspect issues outside of football were also a factor. I don't get that feeling from Mackie - Kitson's slagging of that Referee was one of the most intelligent take downs of an official I've heard. But the other side was a player who struggled to stay motivated at a club in free fall.
 
DenisSmithsWig said:
The way we play then people need to get the idea of only having 1 player up front out of their heads. When we attack teams we do it with 4 or 5 players and over load their defence. We attack by playing it out wide and trying to get as many bodies into the box as possible or following up on the edge for anything that comes out.

Yes we have 1 central vocal point that we can play into but then you then have players like Hall, Henry, Carruthers making runs beyond him to break the lines.
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Overloading oppy with 4/5 midfielders have left us very exposed on the counter attack, in pre season.
 
Foley said:
I am not sure that I agree re the pace. Whyte is very quick. Hall when fit is pretty quick. Then there is Napa.
There are two critical positions to fill as you suggest being Lessons replacement and the main striker.
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Not impressed to date with Whyte. But. I am spoilt. I watched Joey B debut vs Watford in a end of season 0-4 defeat. Stood out a mile.
 
Common Villager said:
It will be interesting to see where Mackie is used. Having seen his cameo against Leeds, I'd say we may see him play the lone striker role. He's obviously got a nice touch and has the tricks of the trade, but he's desperately short of pace and definitely doesn't look like he can beat a man.

Some will hate the comparison, but he looked quite a lot like Kitson did when he was here. I'm just hoping he plays with a lot more desire and commitment. If he does, I'm sure he'll be a useful asset.
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I watched Mackie & Nelson, warm down after Leeds. Mackie was not fit vs Nelson. (But we know that).Blowing hard. But. Working hard. IMO a good signing on/off the pitch. Good professional.
 
Marked Ox said:
Imo Kitson just didn't give a sh*t except receiving his pay cheque. He had talent but no professional pride. I get the impression Jamie Mackie maybe has slightly less talent but actually cares so makes the most of his talent so polar opposites.
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Kitson the man who got more yellow cards than goals for us
 
The Hawk said:
At present, I’d say the squad is not balanced.

We had two major issues last season.

The lack of a genuine ‘1’ up top.

And a lack of pace.

Have those issues been solved from what we’ve seen ore-season? No.

Instead we seem to have a plethora of players who can play in behind Obika - come on, its grim that with a week to go he is our best option - when that is where our one standout, top drawer outfield man plays. James Henry.

There is also the not insignificant issue of replacing Ledson. This rather significant hole seems to have been forgotten about by most. No one ever mentions it!

No doubt the three signings Kr is about to make are aimed at solving the 2 major issues of last season and the one created by a departure.

So we are not ready in the least in terms of personnel. It seems to hAve been an infuriating window for many clubs. Barnsley made their first signing this week!! So at least many are in the same boat.

It may mean that we have a bit of a sluggish start. So KR deserves time and patience. Just like last season, then, we’ll have an indication of how good we are post Xmas.
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Few odd comments you’ve come out with which aren’t actually right

One being pace in the side if anything we are spoilt for choice with pace on the wings Hall Browne Whyte compared to Henry & Mowatt playing Right & Left wing last season

Ledson replacement we had Doughty on trial KR didn’t really want him Karacan been offered a contract & for the past 3 weeks KR has mentioned he wants either or 1-2 defensive midfielder in his previous quotes
 
tatabanya said:
Robinson has said that he sees Carruthers as a wide player, as he has been used in the past couple of friendlies, so not sure about the Ledson comparison.

At least one midfielder will be coming in alongside Brannigan.
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More of a replacement for Rothwell if anything they both play either out wide or central
 
Millman said:
I don't buy this we play one up top so we don't need many strikers. If that genuinely is the case you have very little tactical flexibility. I am sure as others adapt to our system then this could be a major liability. A good squad needs a number of striking options. This allows the manager to mix it up if we a re struggling for goals in a game. Currently we it seems we have the ability to change the midfield around a lot but not a lot up front, we are fairly locked into a system.

Upthecowboys post accurately sums the situation up for me. Putting all our faith on some injury prone players and a striker who is both injury prone and goes missing in games (heck I am surprised he is even still here after last season), seems to me to be crazy. I am sure KR is not happy with the situation either. The next 3 signings are critical.

I also agree about our budget we seem to be building far more on the Shrewsbury model of loaning our best players and relying on cheaper players and youngsters for the rest. Its not a problem and as we have seen can work very well, but as has been mentioned its not what we were told we were getting.

For me its been a pretty poor off season. We have lost a couple of players we could have done with keeping, we have taken a age to put he squad together, and now for me it is highly dependant on loans andstill have an incomplete strike force. The market has become insane with all teams struggling to get any players to sign. Its bound to impact the quality of the leagues for the opening month or so, lets hope the impact on us is short.
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1st you say it wasn’t what we were was told what we were expecting so what were we expecting? KR said early summer he was looking at around 10 players coming in 3/4 of that has been done he would of liked most of that done before the start of pre season unfortunately that didn’t happen which has also been the case for the last 3 seasons

The players you mentioned we should be keeping who are they? If you mean Ledson & Rothwell they were always looking to move on this season we were lucky to keep them last January & all the players KR released were rightly moved on

We have 3 players on loan (not like we’ve got 13) with another 2 set to come in on loan which are all high quality so what to moan about, our recruitment has been decent bar a couple of signings we are short in, as we all know we need a out & out number 9 striker or even 2 along with a defensive midfielder & maybe another winger, it’s hardly a disaster now
 
Shaun Rice said:
We’re going to play one up top so we only need two strikers? Whatever happened to plan B? What if we need to switch things around.[/QUOTE
Carroll had a go up front last season. Not saying he's a genuine option, but it was a plan B. Throw Nelson up top for 5-10 minutes if you need to mix things up.
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Whingit that’s not a plan B! That’s a plan C,D or maybe even E. No proper club should find themselves needing to play their centre half as a striker.
Actually we’re were playing one up top then with only two recognised strikers in the squad.
 
Mystery Yellow said:
1st you say it wasn’t what we were was told what we were expecting so what were we expecting? KR said early summer he was looking at around 10 players coming in 3/4 of that has been done he would of liked most of that done before the start of pre season unfortunately that didn’t happen which has also been the case for the last 3 seasons

The players you mentioned we should be keeping who are they? If you mean Ledson & Rothwell they were always looking to move on this season we were lucky to keep them last January & all the players KR released were rightly moved on

We have 3 players on loan (not like we’ve got 13) with another 2 set to come in on loan which are all high quality so what to moan about, our recruitment has been decent bar a couple of signings we are short in, as we all know we need a out & out number 9 striker or even 2 along with a defensive midfielder & maybe another winger, it’s hardly a disaster now
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Its not about the numbers coming in it was about the quality KR was announcing we would be signing top players, all business done early, and an ever varying number of players. KR does indeed talk a lot, and does like to overstate things a bit which is all fine. If you took all of what he said on face value you would indeed be disappointed. Personally I always thought it was a bit of reach what he was claiming but what is disappointing is the lack of a decent striking options so close to the season, plus I do question just what our player budget is this year.

Ledson was always going. Rothwell was a disappointment (I understand we are lucky to keep them etc but we are doomed to mediocrity until we become a team that can keep more of its players for a bit longer). Richardino was a good player and a shame we didn't sign (but we may have replacements who offer better value for money). Unless we sign Karacan or a good replacement Doughty might be a miss. Plus maybe we should have kept one of the strikers we let go if we are struggling to find replacements (to be honest after last season I am amazed we kept Obika).

Loan players are a big risk as we have found. Play well and they run the risk of being taken back to their parent club in Jan (often to be re-loaned to another club who stumps up more money). Having some loans are fine as they often add quality beyond what we can afford, but to be reliant on them in key positions is a risk. In the past we have been able to sign some of the loans at the end of the season I do not see this with the players we currently have. Therefore we are doomed to a massive rebuild either in Jan or next year (especially so given that we know our best contracted players leave each year). I wonder just what future are we building other than season by season maintaining our position with a hope we get lucky (which is fine but is not a mark of big investment).

I agree with your assessment of the players we still need, and the fact it is not a disaster. I also understand this is part of the game at this level unless you are one of the bigger clubs with good financial backing. I suppose I am just a bit disappointed that it is beginning to look like while we are an improvement over last year's disaster we really aren't pushing onward. This all comes back to the question of just what Tiger can afford and what are his plans mid to long term.
 
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Very good post Millman.
Like everyone else I am hoping for signings in the next 48 hours - otherwise our recruiting has indeed come up way short of what we really need. Tiger has gone very quiet & I do wonder if there are money problems behind the scenes?
 
Millman said:
Its not about the numbers coming in it was about the quality KR was announcing we would be signing top players, all business done early, and an ever varying number of players. KR does indeed talk a lot, and does like to overstate things a bit which is all fine. If you took all of what he said on face value you would indeed be disappointed. Personally I always thought it was a bit of reach what he was claiming but what is disappointing is the lack of a decent striking options so close to the season, plus I do question just what our player budget is this year.

Ledson was always going. Rothwell was a disappointment (I understand we are lucky to keep them etc but we are doomed to mediocrity until we become a team that can keep more of its players for a bit longer). Richardino was a good player and a shame we didn't sign (but we may have replacements who offer better value for money). Unless we sign Karacan or a good replacement Doughty might be a miss. Plus maybe we should have kept one of the strikers we let go if we are struggling to find replacements (to be honest after last season I am amazed we kept Obika).

Loan players are a big risk as we have found. Play well and they run the risk of being taken back to their parent club in Jan (often to be re-loaned to another club who stumps up more money). Having some loans are fine as they often add quality beyond what we can afford, but to be reliant on them in key positions is a risk. In the past we have been able to sign some of the loans at the end of the season I do not see this with the players we currently have. Therefore we are doomed to a massive rebuild either in Jan or next year (especially so given that we know our best contracted players leave each year). I wonder just what future are we building other than season by season maintaining our position with a hope we get lucky (which is fine but is not a mark of big investment).

I agree with your assessment of the players we still need, and the fact it is not a disaster. I also understand this is part of the game at this level unless you are one of the bigger clubs with good financial backing. I suppose I am just a bit disappointed that it is beginning to look like while we are an improvement over last year's disaster we really aren't pushing onward. This all comes back to the question of just what Tiger can afford and what are his plans mid to long term.
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Bang on. This underlines exactly what quite a few of us have been saying since the takeover. It's all very well having big plans, but it's generally a good idea to back them up with cash. The difficulties we have been having with recruitment indicate (and this is putting it politely) there is a big gap between what we have been told and what is being delivered......
 
VICTOR1986 said:
Like everyone else I am hoping for signings in the next 48 hours - otherwise our recruiting has indeed come up way short of what we really need.
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Potentially a part-finished squad to go with our part-finished stadium and part-finished training ground. In KR we trust.
 
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