For people with disabilities - a warning

[amershamdave]

Years ago, I was a 'bit of a lad'. Football, cricket, boxing - I tried them all. I worked in heavy-lifting jobs of all sorts. I've even been a 'bouncer'. As a teenager, I was invincible, in my mind. I had a window-cleaning and painting business and was up-and-down ladders all day. I was reasonably fit, it must be said. I paid my taxes, like everyone else and would've been seen as a decent member of society. Then I developed OsteoArthritis. It spread to ALL my main joints. I had to give up work, because of the pain. Then I got stabbed by a 'person', which took my right lung and ripped my diaphragm apart, making breathing hard. I've developed diabetes and all of the nasties that brings. 'Working' is a word that belongs in my long-ago past, due to my disabilities.

This is not a sob story - this could (hopefully not) be you.

From the word 'go', trying to get benefits to help me has been bloody hard work. For years, I paid into the National Insurance system, never thinking I would need help. When I asked, I was made to think I was a social leper. You may be thinking what this has got to do with you. I wonder how many people tomorrow will acquire an illness that will affect them for the rest of their life? How many people will get into a near-death accident and suffer for years? How many times have you thought that people on disability benefits are scroungers?

The Tory Party has narrowed the goal-posts for people applying for help. These toffs will never have to worry about the NHS, because they can afford private insurance. But disabled people are fighting back. Half of the applicants who were cruelly refused the Tory P.I.P. benefit, have successfully appealed and won their cases in court.

In my opinion, you absolutely cannot trust the Conservatives to help you, in your hour of need. Only Labour will help people like me. (With or without Corbyn)

 

[werthersoriginal]

Well said and good luck mate. I’m no fan of Corbyn but no one with a social conscience, or who might need help at some point, should think of voting Conservative.

 

[Manorlounger]

I sympathise with your plight and wish you all the best in getting what should be yours.

In some aspects I also have some sympathy for what successive governments have attempted, namely to control the abuse of the social systems and the huge amount of money going to those who have no right to be claiming.
It is, sadly, a fact that those who really need support will often be those who lack the ability to jump through all the hoops set up and many will simply give up whereas those who persevere are often abusing the system for personal gain.

 

[amershamdave]

Thanks for replying Mr. Lounger. We've all heard about people fiddling benefits.
Disabled people apply for whatever pittance the Government (Con or Lab) gives them. To receive a disability benefit, you have to actually have an illness or disability that is so bad, it stops you doing what can only be described as a normal day's activities. Washing yourself, dressing,etc. Usually people send in letters of support from specialists, to back their claim up........yet the Tories have still tried their hardest to deny these absolutely neccessary payments.
About 80% of what you just wrote was a negative view of claimants. Here is a scary thing. If the Tories sell off the NHS to those American vultures, then someone will benefit 100%. Not the likes of me and other disabled people, sadly

 

[Marked Ox]

The process is a joke having been through it (all the way through the appeals process as well) especially if your condition is unusual.

 

[Jon-ioualways]

My advice, Dave, is not to waste your time trying to actually get benefits. As "we" all know, there are millions of people who are skilled at getting benefits that they don't actually need. Surely some of them, being the enterprising types they are, have set up a business helping those who really need benefits how to use the techniques that they apparently use so effectively to cheat the system. And if there are no actual businesses for you to apply to, surely in all your years of needing benefits you've come across loads of these scroungers who are able to manage, somehow, what you've found so difficult. Just ask for a little guidance, man. You can do it.

Of course, it's just possible that these "millions" are almost entirely an invention of those who'd prefer to find some apparently convincing way to persuade people to accept the incredible hoops one has to go through to get the benefits one needs. No, surely not--they wouldn't be that devious, would they?

 

[Manorlounger]

Thanks for replying Mr. Lounger. We've all heard about people fiddling benefits.
Disabled people apply for whatever pittance the Government (Con or Lab) gives them. To receive a disability benefit, you have to actually have an illness or disability that is so bad, it stops you doing what can only be described as a normal day's activities. Washing yourself, dressing,etc. Usually people send in letters of support from specialists, to back their claim up........yet the Tories have still tried their hardest to deny these absolutely neccessary payments.
About 80% of what you just wrote was a negative view of claimants. Here is a scary thing. If the Tories sell off the NHS to those American vultures, then someone will benefit 100%. Not the likes of me and other disabled people, sadly

I have just completed the forms to apply for attendance allowance for my mother. I found it quite a difficult and tiresome process but persevered. Whether we get that allowance before she dies is debatable. I am not going to point a finger at any political party because of that. There are all sorts of benefits available to all sorts of people, not just the disabled. The majority of tax payers are not claimants nor entitled to claim but, they are tax payers and should be able to expect that their taxes are being correctly and properly used. That is not a negative view of claimants, that is simply saying that there has to be a system of checks and controls. What I will say is that far too many times we read of decision makers being blinkered and without empathy. Better training and qualification would improve things.

Where this nonsense about selling off the NHS to the Americans comes from astounds me. That would require so much legislation and a parliament willing to vote in favour of that legislation that just defies all logic. No doubt one of the more "leftist" orientated posters will come along and put me right on that with absolute proof of intention by those nasty tories.

 

[Ian]

I have just completed the forms to apply for attendance allowance for my mother. I found it quite a difficult and tiresome process but persevered. Whether we get that allowance before she dies is debatable. I am not going to point a finger at any political party because of that. There are all sorts of benefits available to all sorts of people, not just the disabled. The majority of tax payers are not claimants nor entitled to claim but, they are tax payers and should be able to expect that their taxes are being correctly and properly used. That is not a negative view of claimants, that is simply saying that there has to be a system of checks and controls. What I will say is that far too many times we read of decision makers being blinkered and without empathy. Better training and qualification would improve things.

Where this nonsense about selling off the NHS to the Americans comes from astounds me. That would require so much legislation and a parliament willing to vote in favour of that legislation that just defies all logic. No doubt one of the more "leftist" orientated posters will come along and put me right on that with absolute proof of intention by those nasty tories.

I believe that the Trump team have stated that a trade deal with the UK would have to include private American drug companies having full access to the NHS/UK healthcare.

This better explains the issue than I can:
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-drugs-cost-brexit-trade-deal-usa-820816

 

[Ian]

I sympathise with your plight and wish you all the best in getting what should be yours.

In some aspects I also have some sympathy for what successive governments have attempted, namely to control the abuse of the social systems and the huge amount of money going to those who have no right to be claiming.
It is, sadly, a fact that those who really need support will often be those who lack the ability to jump through all the hoops set up and many will simply give up whereas those who persevere are often abusing the system for personal gain.

The right-wing press claim that the system is abused, highlighting a few cases and claiming, falsely, that there are widespread problems.

The possible loses from fraud are likely to be insignificant. But, attacking the poor diverts attention from the wealthy who avoid huge sums of tax and benefit most from government expenditure.

 

[warksox]

The possible loses from fraud are likely to be insignificant. But, attacking the poor diverts attention from the wealthy who avoid huge sums of tax and benefit most from government expenditure.

Such broad generalisations undermine your argument. The richest 1% in the UK contribute 28% of all income tax.

Britain's top taxpayers are revealed in list

Sir James Dyson, Mike Ashley and the Beckham family were among those who paid the most tax in the UK last year.

news.sky.com

 

[Ian]

Such broad generalisations undermine your argument. The richest 1% in the UK contribute 28% of all income tax.

Britain's top taxpayers are revealed in list

Sir James Dyson, Mike Ashley and the Beckham family were among those who paid the most tax in the UK last year.

news.sky.com

Your high and mighty statement ignores facts. But, congratulations on being a poor man championing and cheering the richest.

10 people paying £1bn in income tax. How noble of them! To be paying so much income tax, where is their income coming from? What are they doing to justify such income? Are they exceptional workers/minds, or are they getting ever richer off the efforts of others?

 

[chuckbert]

Such broad generalisations undermine your argument. The richest 1% in the UK contribute 28% of all income tax.

Blimey - you really think his argument is undermined? A fraction more tax on the richest, which can easily be afforded would wipe out the costs of pension provision.

it makes me want to cry when I see people in need suffering, because of policies to stop a couple of thousand slightly better off people stealing a few hundred bucks each, while the individuals and corporations who lobby and “optimise” the terms of their debt to society cost the country more.
why does Britain despise the poor and ill so much?

 

[chuckbert]

Years ago ..

Thanks for telling your story mate. Far, far too many people have a similar one. I persuaded an Aussie mate to watch “I Daniel Blake” and he couldn’t believe that it was a realistic portrayal of the state of things.

 

[Manorlounger]

The right-wing press claim that the system is abused, highlighting a few cases and claiming, falsely, that there are widespread problems.

The possible loses from fraud are likely to be insignificant. But, attacking the poor diverts attention from the wealthy who avoid huge sums of tax and benefit most from government expenditure.

I'm not saying that there are many who avoid paying tax through various means, some of which are legal, but are you advocating paying benefits out without any checks and controls? However payments are made, someone is going to lose, someone is going to profit. All that can be done is to attempt to maintain a fair system. The system is not perfect, far from it and we all know of cases where we are shocked at the perceived callousness of some officialdom but, without control the system wouldn't work at all.
I work in the NHS and over the last few years it has become necessary to have a department in each hospital dedicated to purely checking that someone is entitled to care under the NHS. The costs were escalating into millions as non EU citizens were arriving in this country to abuse the "free" health care.
Please note, I am not linking non EU citizens to benefit fraud, merely pointing out an example of how a lack of control lead to fraud.

Where does "wealthy" start? Is that anyone richer than you? Is tax fraud exclusive to the "wealthy"? What about the self employed painter/decorator who does your house for you - cash in hand alright guv?
I am not condoning the massive tax avoidance of organisations like Amazon, Google etc but if they can find a way around the tax laws then it those laws that need changing. Not something that was rectified by any government in recent times, Tory or Labour.

Fraud and error in the benefit system: financial year 2018 to 2019 estimates

Estimates of fraud and error levels in the benefit system in Great Britain in the financial year 2018 to 2019.

www.gov.uk

Measuring tax gaps 2019 edition

 

[LowerSouth]

Many,many tax avoidance loopholes have been plugged since 2010.
Rules on dividends have also been tightened, resulting in a huge tax paid gain.
Still more to do obviously.

 

[BristolOx]

I had DLA basically forever from a genetic condition & it just stopped last December with no notification. It took until May until my PIP application was dealt with & I’m still awaiting a response and for it to be back dated.
So I feel your pain with this one.

The rest of my current household at the moment are big Tories & whenever I argue for the sake of the disabled & the NHS, their argument is how unviable it is in its current state & that BoJo ‘just wouldn’t’ sell it off to Trump. Just can’t understand it.

 

[Ian]

The government spends thousands of pounds moving people from one benefit to another - and both benefits pay the same...

But, there is political capital, and this is used to claim that there are people benefitting from claiming one benefit rather than another.

Payments can vary, but looking at the figures online, ESA pays 70p a week more. 70p. But, this is not always the case.

Thousands are spent on penny saving, whilst the wealthiest continue to increase the wealth gape. More people are falling into the poverty trap.

Too few question why some earn so much, whilst others work hard, but are still reliant on foodbanks.

Those reliant on foodbanks often pay their rent, on time, to private landlords maximising their rental income, and living very comfortable lives...

 

[Ian]

I'm not saying that there are many who avoid paying tax through various means, some of which are legal, but are you advocating paying benefits out without any checks and controls? However payments are made, someone is going to lose, someone is going to profit. All that can be done is to attempt to maintain a fair system. The system is not perfect, far from it and we all know of cases where we are shocked at the perceived callousness of some officialdom but, without control the system wouldn't work at all.
I work in the NHS and over the last few years it has become necessary to have a department in each hospital dedicated to purely checking that someone is entitled to care under the NHS. The costs were escalating into millions as non EU citizens were arriving in this country to abuse the "free" health care.
Please note, I am not linking non EU citizens to benefit fraud, merely pointing out an example of how a lack of control lead to fraud.

Where does "wealthy" start? Is that anyone richer than you? Is tax fraud exclusive to the "wealthy"? What about the self employed painter/decorator who does your house for you - cash in hand alright guv?
I am not condoning the massive tax avoidance of organisations like Amazon, Google etc but if they can find a way around the tax laws then it those laws that need changing. Not something that was rectified by any government in recent times, Tory or Labour.

Fraud and error in the benefit system: financial year 2018 to 2019 estimates

Estimates of fraud and error levels in the benefit system in Great Britain in the financial year 2018 to 2019.

www.gov.uk

Measuring tax gaps 2019 edition

When we employ someone to provide a service, why are we taxing their toil? Income tax, VAT...

Taxation is normally set on less desirable activities, smoking, polluting, alcohol, etc.

Work is a positive, it should be encouraged, not taxed!

Those with the largest incomes are often not working for their income, but profiting off the toil of others. Taxation needs a total rethink.

I'm 100% in favour of a citizens income, and many social changes. Challenge the norms, don't seek to explain and justify them...

 

[LowerSouth]

When we employ someone to provide a service, why are we taxing their toil? Income tax, VAT...

Taxation is normally set on less desirable activities, smoking, polluting, alcohol, etc.

Work is a positive, it should be encouraged, not taxed!

Those with the largest incomes are often not working for their income, but profiting off the toil of others. Taxation needs a total rethink.

I'm 100% in favour of a citizens income, and many social changes. Challenge the norms, don't seek to explain and justify them...

The vast majority of the UK’s tax take, is derived from the service industry.
What’s your definition of a “ larger” income.

 

[amershamdave]

Ok my turn again. What really bites my ball sack is when I hear people who are fit and able have a go at people who 'pretend' to be disabled.
Everyone knows this: if you come into money, people will be your friend. Relatives will come out of the cracks. You are a hero. When your money runs out, so will most of your 'friends'. The Tory party is based on, in my opinion, this: you're rich, we look after you and you will vote for us and maybe even donate to our party. If you're poor, or disabled; tough. You should've bought yourself a private pension. If you can afford one, then bully for f*****g you. Not everyone is that lucky.
If you mouth off on here about scroungers, just pray you don't become disabled. The pain and uselessness you feel is bad enough. Having a Tory government to kick you when you're down is f*****g criminal, in my opinion.