National News First 100 days of Boris..........

[Essexyellows]

Or at least the preference of 51% of that 72%...
If we are playing with numbers, you could say that of the electorate, 17.5 million voted to leave and 29 million didn't.

Actually of course, we have to agree that the vote was as it was. Silly 'gloating' posts don't exactly promote the healing of the divisions caused by this though, do they?

Indeed....... however there are three years of division, insults and petty squabbling to resolve.... victors have to be given the opportunity to savour the moment. ?

 

[tonyw]

I'll be lighting a big cigar with a bottle of lovely British beer at the appointed time. Freedom! ?

I know Brexiteers keep talking about freedom, but the way I see it - my personal freedoms are going to be severely curtailed on January 31st.

At the moment, I can choose to go live and work in any one of 27 other European countries whenever I want. From February onwards, I can't.

Yes, eventually Britain and Europe will probably diverge so that the rules and regs are different (although not for a while yet).....but in practise all that really means is that laws and regulations will be imposed on me* by British people, rather than wider Europeans. Doesn't feel to me like much of a benefit to make up for the freedom of movement that I'm losing


(* with the caveat that I do live in the US at the moment, so this is more for if and when I move back. Which itself is going to be much less likely in the aftermath of Brexit)

 

[Essexyellows]

But you must understand that a clique on here have no real interest in 'healing'. It's all about winning, BRITISH beer and posting 'celebrate Brexit' posts on here at 5.58 am on Christmas Day. Gloating is what some live for. Let them have their fun.

Just because somebody (I don`t know who you refer too but can make an educated guess) was up early and excited about Santa...... ? ?
Statement of fact isn`t gloating, neither is consistently stating the fact.
Offence is taken not given.

 

[Gary Baldi]

I know Brexiteers keep talking about freedom, but the way I see it - my personal freedoms are going to be severely curtailed on January 31st.

At the moment, I can choose to go live and work in any one of 27 other European countries whenever I want. From February onwards, I can't.

Yes, eventually Britain and Europe will probably diverge so that the rules and regs are different (although not for a while yet).....but in practise all that really means is that laws and regulations will be imposed on me* by British people, rather than wider Europeans. Doesn't feel to me like much of a benefit to make up for the freedom of movement that I'm losing


(* with the caveat that I do live in the US at the moment, so this is more for if and when I move back. Which itself is going to be much less likely in the aftermath of Brexit)

This was something I contemplated when voting, but the reality of doing it vs thinking of doing it, was where I took the view that most of us wouldn't mind doing it, but would we actually go through with it? No. In the wider immigration discussion, this was a price to pay for the short term, but we don't know what the affect would be in the longer term once trade deals, etc get negotiated. Kind of why I was suggesting to people to stop wasting time putting toothpaste back into the tube,

I'm sure other leavers took the view of hate all immigrants, don't care about living in the EU, etc, but that isn't me.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Just because somebody (I don`t know who you refer too but can make an educated guess) was up early and excited about Santa...... ? ?
Statement of fact isn`t gloating, neither is consistently stating the fact.
Offence is taken not given.

The persistent Remainer indignant moaning is tiring. Some of us tried to heal the divide 3 or more years ago, but have spent the 3 years being told we are wrong, thick, etc. So I don't think I'm the only one who is past caring about healing or anything like that because there are better things to be doing in life. If Remainers don't like that we're leaving, it's their problem not mine.

 

[tonyw]

This was something I contemplated when voting, but the reality of doing it vs thinking of doing it, was where I took the view that most of us wouldn't mind doing it, but would we actually go through with it? No. In the wider immigration discussion, this was a price to pay for the short term, but we don't know what the affect would be in the longer term once trade deals, etc get negotiated. Kind of why I was suggesting to people to stop wasting time putting toothpaste back into the tube,

Fair enough.
But as someone who currently lives in another country, has previously worked in Germany and in France, and who's wife is fluent in French and Spanish.....it was always a very real possibility for us. As it is for the million Brits who are currently living in the EU (who are now basically forced to make a permanent choice) and for the millions that might have followed them.

There's 101 arguments for and against Brexit, and many of them won't be resolved for years yet, until we know exactly what the future relationship looks like.
But loss of freedom of movement? That one's immediate - and while I accept it's irrelevant for many, it does sting for me.

And I don't see how it can be a short-term change either.
The two main arguments for Brexit was a restoration of control over UK's rules and regs, and a restoration of control over immigration policy.
If BoJo were to go ahead and immediately restore freedom of movement, I think it would make a lot of his supporters angry and make a huge number of people question what the point of it all was........

 

[Gary Baldi]

Fair enough.
But as someone who currently lives in another country, has previously worked in Germany and in France, and who's wife is fluent in French and Spanish.....it was always a very real possibility for us. As it is for the million Brits who are currently living in the EU (who are now basically forced to make a permanent choice) and for the millions that might have followed them.

There's 101 arguments for and against Brexit, and many of them won't be resolved for years yet, until we know exactly what the future relationship looks like.
But loss of freedom of movement? That one's immediate - and while I accept it's irrelevant for many, it does sting for me.

And I don't see how it can be a short-term change either.
The two main arguments for Brexit was a restoration of control over UK's rules and regs, and a restoration of control over immigration policy.
If BoJo were to go ahead and immediately restore freedom of movement, I think it would make a lot of his supporters angry and make a huge number of people question what the point of it all was........

Freedom of movement is off the cards, but we don't know what will replace it as the future is negotiated.

My guess is the movement of highly skilled people between us and the EU will continue in some form or another because it suits both sides economies, and even students will have a similar path too. Again because it suits both of us. Unskilled Labour will be harder for the EU to sell and lower skilled professionals could also be caught in the wash. Zero migration won't happen, but I suspect the EU citizens will find it harder now they have no priority - and I don't think whatever limit the Govt set in the election will be it.

 

[Essexyellows]

Was listening to PMQ`s and I`m sure somebody said ERASMUS was staying.
Chuck in a points based system and a limit for migration and another thing that "can`t be done" is a lot closer to being done.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Was listening to PMQ`s and I`m sure somebody said ERASMUS was staying.
Chuck in a points based system and a limit for migration and another thing that "can`t be done" is a lot closer to being done.

There has been a lot of scaremongering about Erasmus from certain quarters, but the impression from all in the Govt is they have no intention of stopping the scheme, regardless of what people are saying, the issue will be agreeing what it is.

We'll need to see, of course

 

[Sarge]

Hurrah for Bojo hes getting post Brexit deals nailed already....except he isnt. Even former convict enclave Australia have said thanks but no thanks.....oh well at least hes going to get Brexit done ???

First blow for post-Brexit Britain as Australia rejects trade deal

Australia turned down the UK’s appeal for freedom of movement between the two countries.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[Marked Ox]

Hurrah for Bojo hes getting post Brexit deals nailed already....except he isnt. Even former convict enclave Australia have said thanks but no thanks.....oh well at least hes going to get Brexit done ???

First blow for post-Brexit Britain as Australia rejects trade deal

Australia turned down the UK’s appeal for freedom of movement between the two countries.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Why would our Govt want freedom of movement with Australia considering we were told constantly by Brexiteers that it is a bad thing?

 

[Sarge]

Why would our Govt want freedom of movement with Australia considering we were told constantly by Brexiteers that it is a bad thing?

my sentiments exactly @Marked Ox ..... after all arent Bojo n co going to Get Brexit Done, and out means out etc????

 

[Essexyellows]

Why would our Govt want freedom of movement with Australia considering we were told constantly by Brexiteers that it is a bad thing?

From the same article................... "Once talks are launched with the UK we will work through all of these issues in the usual way,” he said.

So they have made a headline out of something that hasn`t even started yet................... hmmmmm......

 

[Marked Ox]

From the same article................... "Once talks are launched with the UK we will work through all of these issues in the usual way,” he said.

So they have made a headline out of something that hasn`t even started yet................... hmmmmm......

There will have been preliminary talks/communication though as that is something else we were told would happen by Brexiteers/Govt.

Doesn't change that we have clearly put it forward as a preliminary proposal which is one of the reasons why we should leave the EU.

 

[tonyw]

There has been a lot of scaremongering about Erasmus from certain quarters, but the impression from all in the Govt is they have no intention of stopping the scheme, regardless of what people are saying, the issue will be agreeing what it is.

To be fair, Erasmus and Erasmus+ have never been EU-exclusive programs.
The likes of Norway, Iceland, Turkey, Macedonia and Kazakhstan have been involved.
There's no reason the UK can't continue to be part of the scheme, as long as they agree to the mutual exchange of students and young people from the other 30+ countries involved.

But that's what the next several years are going to be about. Going one-by-one through the complex web of programs and initiatives that have been developed within an EU framework, deciding which ones Britain wants to remain involved with, and then negotiating an independent deal to allow that.

It's going to be a ton of work, but it should be doable, just not before the end of 2020 - so all the non-vital programs should be expecting a hiatus.

 

[Gary Baldi]

To be fair, Erasmus and Erasmus+ have never been EU-exclusive programs.
The likes of Norway, Iceland, Turkey, Macedonia and Kazakhstan have been involved.
There's no reason the UK can't continue to be part of the scheme, as long as they agree to the mutual exchange of students and young people from the other 30+ countries involved.

But that's what the next several years are going to be about. Going one-by-one through the complex web of programs and initiatives that have been developed within an EU framework, deciding which ones Britain wants to remain involved with, and then negotiating an independent deal to allow that.

It's going to be a ton of work, but it should be doable, just not before the end of 2020 - so all the non-vital programs should be expecting a hiatus.

Erasmus, alongside settlement rights, has been something various Tory Govts have said they want to settle. It suits all sides to keep going with Erasmus and I hope they continue down that track and it can be resolved PDQ.

I believe some of the work on EU initiatives has been done with the financial settlement etc as part of the withdrawal agreement. Clearly there is a lot to do, but a program like Erasmus is something I hope we continue to support and look for similar opportunities within Europe and ROW to expand the programs even more.

Contrary to some opinion, leaving the EU was never about a Trump style international isolationism (for some of us), it was in part to opening the ROW up a little more.

 

[Essexyellows]

Here`s interesting...... https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/seminar-20200114-lpf_en.pdf

 

[Sarge]

Thank the lord(s)

Government loses first votes since election - BBC News

Ministers are defeated three times over Brexit legislation - on citizens' rights and court rulings.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Essexyellows]

Thank the lord(s)

Government loses first votes since election - BBC News

Ministers are defeated three times over Brexit legislation - on citizens' rights and court rulings.

www.bbc.co.uk

For balance, from the same article:

"Ministers will aim to reverse the moves when the bill returns to the Commons.
With a majority of 80, the government will be confident of getting its way."

The Lords are unable to prevent Bills passing into law as they are not a democratically elected body .............. and the current format needs a damned good shake up. ?

 

[tonyw]

Way I see it, the job of the House of Lords isn't to decide upon legislation - ultimately if the House of Commons wants to pass a bill, they'll get there eventually, even without the Lords' support.

Rather their purpose is to scrutinize legislation, and point out to the Commons (and the public) areas where that legislation is stupid or unreasonable.

On the citizen's rights issue, here's what Boris said in July:
“I want, therefore, to repeat unequivocally our guarantee to the 3.2 million EU nationals now living and working among us,” he said.
“I thank them for their contribution to our society and for their patience, and I can assure them that, under this Government, they will have the absolute certainty for the right to live and remain.”

Doesn't seem unreasonable then, to actually frame that in the withdrawal agreement.

And also the government doesn't want to give out any paperwork, but rather rely on an electronic database?
That wouldn't make me very comfortable if I was an EU national and I lacked the ability to prove, at any given moment, whether I actually had the right to live and work in the country.